Talk:Wanrong

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Beware: there is a problem with one of the footnotes from 121 to 123

One of these footnotes is leading to a *really* bad site. I won't click on it again, so I can't be sure which one it is. Please check!

Sources?

There are a lot of stories about this woman at the end of the article, but no sources provided for them. Anyone? --Fire Star 火星 05:33, 18 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Added lots of references & more information from Edward Behr's biography on Puyi, "The Last Emperor". According to Behr's book, Puyi never banished Wan Rong to a place called the "Cold Palace", so I removed this. She lived in the "Salt Tax Palace" with Puyi in Changchun, maybe this is what this was referring to. Also there is no reference in Behr's book that she ever tried quitting opium so I removed that too. If anyone can find a reference please re-add it.P. Moore 21:37, 7 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Error on the description of "As Candidate for Empress" portrait. I have another photo of Henry PuYi dressed in suit and tie standing beside the Empress during the same sitting. Photo must have been taken while they were staying at the Quiet Garden Villa , during the time when they were living a carefree lifestyle hitting the town, going to theaters and clubs. Obsessions28 (talk) 21:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Henry PuYi and WanRong may have been good friends at first, but their marriage was still an unhappy one, as Henry was a known homosexual. He beat his page boys when they refused his advances. This was one of the reasons for his mother Yulan committing suicide, when scold by the Dowager Consort DuanKang on the matter. Henry himself has admitted that his concubines were there merely to keep up appearances. I don't have the source off hand, too many books to go throu, but it should be from his own autobiography. Obsessions28 (talk) 21:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

How is a Manchu Noble Woman's hair style Done?

How is a Manchu Noble Woman's hair style Done? I would like to know as many of the Manchu Cultures and Customs are becoming extinct. Obsessions28 (talk) 02:57, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How is a Manchu Noble Woman's hair style Done?

How is a Manchu Noble Woman's hair style Done? I would like to know as many of the Manchu Cultures and Customs are becoming extinct. Obsessions28 (talk) 02:57, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Secondary Source on Cotter's claim?

Charis Cotter's book seems to be a coffee-table sort of entertainment, instead of a scholarly source. http://www.chariscotter.com/kids_who_rule.html Note the awards are not exactly from an Oxford University historical society. Note 2 seems to contradict the emperor Puyi's own bio of his life, does it not? Is there any more trusted work that can confirm Puyi's disinterest in his women? HammerFilmFan (talk) 21:53, 11 July 2010 (UTC)HammerFilmFan —Preceding unsigned comment added by HammerFilmFan (talk • contribs)

Editing

There are too many inaccuracies and vague comments left in the page. Most of what I've read here (including the sources) seems to be vague assumptions that even contradict what's been written in more credible sources.

I've been doing a lot of research and hope to make the page more well rounded with more credible references. Gwanrong (talk) 18:00, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"The Cold Palace"

The cold palace is a euphemism meaning that Wan Rong had found disfavor with Puyi and he simply ignored her. This is untrue and a fabrication. I've read Puyi's autobiography and many other sources and all I seem find is references of them spending time together. Going to concerts, flying kites, eating and talking. Puyi was even a bit jealous of her friendship with her tutor Isabel Ingram and would often surprise them during their studies to see what they were up to. According to Isabel Ingram's diary.

In general, there seems to be a lot of negativity about Wan Rong. I'm not 100% sure why, but perhaps it's to discredit her as a person and make Puyi a simple, tragic figure that was manipulated by everyone around him. This is evident in his autobiography where he attempts to apologize to her for ignoring her in Manchukuo, as he was over come with fear and anxiety of being put to death. Yet, two pages later he practically curses her for not caring about him and only being interested in her wealth and title.

I feel this is very untrue and was edited somehow. Either by the communists or Puyi's last wife, who had control over his estate and autobiography. Gwanrong (talk) 18:59, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

All references from Edward Behr, The Last Emperor, 1987,

Will be removed and then rewritten with better sources. Edward Behr, The Last Emperor, 1987, is the novelization of the Bernardo Bertolucci movie The Last Emperor and is not a credible source and also not Puyi's autobiography.Gwanrong (talk) 13:18, 3 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

deleted "relationship with Puyi" section.

I need to re write it as well, but I felt that too much of it was based on speculation and rumor, most of which comes from the film "the last emperor" as well as the accompanying book and novelization.

I cant find a single credible source to any of these rumors of an affair or homosexuality. Granted, they can be possible, but there isn't any credible evidence. I have also been unable to locate Hiro Saga's diary as well.

Quite to the contrary though, Wan Rong and Puyi were more or less under lock and key in the forbidden city and then again in Manchukuo. There are many reports of their movements being tracked and watched by the eunuchs as well as the Japanese.

I've often wondered why Hiro Saga has been attributed to the source of some of the rumors when we don't hear secondary accounts nor anything from Runqi or Pujie about the topic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gwanrong (talk • contribs) 14:29, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Atrocious Sources

Blogs and a coffee-table book that came out with a movie? There must be a book that mentions her time in prison...--Menacinghat (talk) 22:46, 5 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wanrong

If anyone is interested, I would recommend the books The Last Eunuch of China and The Last Emperor and His Five Wives Goldengnomee (talk) 21:31, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I feel the awkward lengthy information about her mental illness and opium addiction should remain because it's an important part of her story. Wanrong, being a woman from the pre-war period largely did not control anything significant and had little power after her expulsion. She was also mostly glossed over in Puyi's memoir who talks more about Johnston than Wanrong. Much of the info we have about her in English is trivia. Her opium addiction and mental illness caused her death and is a main point of interest in any documentary or article you will see and and as such I think it should be tolerated. It's ultimately what made her life a tragedy. Anyone interested in her story will be curious about it. Goldengnomee (talk) 22:56, 13 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Quote

"I hear you're a more enlightened woman, I hope you do not treat me like everybody else. Maybe you've started feeling the distress. I am very lonely, no friends. Treat me like a friend. Can you promise me?" – Wanrong repeated, "Yes, I promise." trying to restrain her voice from shaking. "This is good," Puyi feels happy and bids goodbye to Wanrong, "Go rest and good afternoon."

Does anyone have a source for this quote? Goldengnomee (talk) 21:36, 16 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Copy edit

This page is one of the oldest pages stil listed by GOCE for copy editing, so I took a look at it. For now I've clarified some confusing sentences and fixed some grammatical errors in the introduction with the goal of improving flow without changing information.

However, froma developmental editing standpoint, the article seems to go into far too much detail about the marriage with Puyi, and might be more suitable for inclusion in the article about Chinese marriage or the Manchu people rather than here.

Although there's a lot of great detail in this article, the sheer amount of content makes it difficult to parse the key details of Wanrong's life are difficult to parse. I'd love input from anyone with more history working on this page has comments on how the information could be better presented. SashimiJones (talk) 17:28, 20 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is her life was largely trivia, although it's still absolutely fascinating. You could probably trim parts related to specific rituals. A lot of the sources in this article have not been translated into English, so they are quite precious, nevertheless. I hope someone can delicately edit it, improving the flow, while still retaining the intrigue and tragedy, before someone comes along and ruins it. Why not have a try at trimming the marriage section? Menacinghat (talk) 23:09, 20 February 2022 (UTC) I just trimmed it a bit 2A00:23C4:5385:A200:188C:E875:EEC4:3579 (talk) 23:53, 20 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Honestly, I love the article and think it's great as someone who's into historical trivia. It just seems challenging for a casual reader (someone doing as school report or something, or here from the movie) to get good information on Wangrong. There's probably enough material here for a separate article on the marriage of Puyi if we want to divorce (no pun intended) the details of the wedding from the details of Wanrong's life. The changes from anon ipv6 above are pretty solid but it'd be great to retain this detailed translated information in another context. SashimiJones (talk) 19:56, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Did Wanrong abort a child from an affair with her lover?

As mentioned in the film "The Last Emperor"? Yourlocallordandsavior (talk) 06:42, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]