Talk:Violence against women/Archive 4

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Violence against women by women?

I know VAW is majorly about male violence against women, but I can't really find any articles about it on wikipedia, or anywhere really, that touch on the subject of female violence against women. It's all (understandably) obscured by studies or reporting on VAW, and sometimes female violence against men. Kinda lost here, figured if I had to ask this might be a good starting point? 185.163.103.83 (talk) 11:03, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Good thought there, I'll read more on this. I suppose when it's the same gender vs. the same gender, it commonly falls into the category of plain violence. Thoughts? EmGaGa (talk) 17:19, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

I have a vague memory of an article that found that part of the gender payroll gap was due to women in senior positions not seeing women who they supervised as having potential/as competent. This would constitute economic violence, which is perhaps not what you're looking for, but would support the idea that women are not immune from sexist socialization and, as a group, work to harm other women. I did some google searching, but useful keywords are tricky to identify for finding it to see if I'm remembering correctly.

Audrey Lorde wrote about misplaced women's anger against women in her essay "Eye to Eye" in Sister Outsider. Emi Koyama, cited in the article under the "State violence" subsection, writes about women's domestic violence shelter (run and managed mostly by women) using violence against shelter residents. And domestic violence advocates in the queer community will certainly tell you that women use violence against each other in the context of abusive relationships. Dkreisst (talk) 20:48, 19 November 2020 (UTC) (he/him)

A common definition for this topic is "Violence against women because they are women." And the topic is primarily defined as sex-based violence. The violence has a lot to do with the person being of the female sex and hatred for that sex, and/or feeling superior to that sex. Often, it's only about that. Domestic violence in lesbian relationships is not about the women harming other women because they are women. Unless someone has sources about women harming women specifically because they are female/women and the sources define that as an example of violence against women, the above discussion is nothing but a WP:Original research matter. Even a few sources on the matter would fall under WP:Undue. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 01:33, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Forms of violence

The section on Forms of violence looks awfully cumbersome and some categorizing may help. I split in two because some subgroups like 'sport-related' is not so much a form of violence like acid-throwing but explaining at how a certain group of women are affected by violence. JustBeCool (talk) 22:21, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

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Strange conflation

How can "violence against women" be a synonym of "sexual and gender-based violence"? Doesn't "sexual and gender-based violence" include sexual violence against men and boys, as well as gender-based violence against transpeople?--2.204.230.219 (talk) 07:26, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

Stop making sense, you're on the wrong planet for that. 45.46.140.49 (talk) 19:15, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

For the same reason that "drunk driving" is a synonym for "operating a motor vehicle while intoxicated", despite the fact that horse-and buggy drivers occasionally tie one on. In any case, this isn't the place to debate whether the terminology used by reliable sources is correct or appropriate. --Sangdeboeuf (talk) 10:59, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

No, these are not synonyms. Drunk driving encompasses all forms of it, wether on a train or on a horse. It just generally refers to motor vehicles. It is not an official synonym by ANY dictionary. You just used your own definition. 67.175.102.207 (talk) 14:09, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

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English

Gender 41.116.74.178 (talk) 17:50, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

What about it? —C.Fred (talk) 20:56, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

English

Violence aginst women and child and lgbtq also 112.198.69.212 (talk) 00:01, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

The article covers all violence against women, regardless of age or orientation. —C.Fred (talk) 00:11, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Causes of GBV

Causes 41.114.229.173 (talk) 23:36, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

"Male violence against women"

The phrase "male violence" seems to be getting some traction. I suspect this reflects an ideological position that the violence occurs due to the patriarchy, that the patriarchy exists in a well defined form, and that the patriarchy is maintained and functions through the male gender. This would be distinct from "violence against women by men" or "men's violence against women" that seem to merely refer to a species of violence rather than asserting the cause.

That makes sense when you consider that, a few decades ago, the only people interested in reducing domestic violence were grassroots feminists who understood male violence primarily as a symptom of patriarchy: the age-old structural power imbalance between men and women that socially constructed itself out of differences between the sexes

From a respected domestic violence charity in the UK

Domestic abuse perpetrated by men against women is rooted in women’s unequal status in society and is part of the wider social problem of male violence against women and girls

From a UK funding body

Male violence against women and girls is deeply rooted in inequitable gender norms and social and cultural attitudes about women and girls, their roles and value

On the website for a very visible campaign agaisnt "male violence"

We welcome the Mayor’s vision for holding men directly to account for the perpetuation of VAWG, through a committed intention to address and dismantle the social and cultural norms which permit, sanctify and legitimizes male violence towards women and girls.

Reading this article it appears likely that such statements about causality have limited evidence, and yet are forming the basis of scientific funding, regional government policy, well-funded charity work and national journalism. For this reason, I would like to quote the best literature on the term "male violence against women" and look at the influence of "intersectional" lenses on male violence. Does anyone have a good suggestion on sources on either - I brief search did not turn up many scholarly works Talpedia (talk) 23:44, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

There's some tests of the hypothesis that gender inequality increases violence. It's largely in done in feminist criminology (e.g., [1]). One example of a corollary is the "backlash hypothesis" which has been tested some. There's been some work done with the International Violence Against Women Survey as well. EvergreenFir (talk) 00:06, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

References

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The article is too long, over 99.000 characters!

Please, consider to split out Forms of violence against women. 5.134.57.38 (talk) 19:06, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

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World map showing rate of murder by country

I have a really hard time believing that the rate of murder of women in China is low. On par with western European countries? Give me a break. China is a dictatorship, very concerned with how it looks on the international stage and its government routinely suppresses info that would damage this image. Any stats that were compiled for this article are suspect if the stats that were used are directly from the Chinese government. So, where did these stats come from? 47.138.92.43 (talk) 10:37, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

I cannot say where this data came from, but your point about China's government purposely reporting false information is supported by a number of sources. I don't think it is surprising that it is manipulated. The question is: should it be included here at Wikipedia ? We cannot really check the numbers, and we do not want to support a false narrative. It seems to present a certain bias. On a side note, support for data manipulation appears in several sources, including University of Chicago Press (https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/full/10.1086/709649), Journal of Environmental Economics and Management (https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jeem.2014.05.003), and the Wall Street Journal. FinisKoronatOpus (talk) 16:01, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Find a newer source for the data and hope that it removes China? Talpedia 16:03, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Improving excessive detail

I've been going around for the past while removing some excessive detail and would really appreciate if I could get a bit of help with this. A method that I've been doing this is spinning off some of these important details which I don't believe should be in this article, such as into Activism against violence against women and History of violence against women.

I think the best strategy would be to spin off most of the sections in this article and only keep an overview of the topic, which means that it may be best to remove a lot of (but not all) examples used in this article, in order to remove bloat. If the reader wants to have a look in more detail for these examples, it may be best for them to look at the spinoff articles.

Sounds good? Does anyone want to help? —Panamitsu (talk) 00:17, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 April 2024

Please fix typos Mia Mahey (talk) 21:39, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

@Mia Mahey Can you be more specific? —C.Fred (talk) 21:44, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. --Ferien (talk) 21:46, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Title of Sexual and gender-based violence in the 2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel

Please see the section "Gender-based signifier" at Talk:Sexual and gender-based violence in the 2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel. There is some discussion on the aptness of the name, but I feel that most editors there have knowledge of and interest in Israel/Palestine and less so about sexual and gender-based violence, so editors with expertise in this area may be able to make a useful contribution to discussion. BobFromBrockley (talk) 08:26, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 June 2024

doemstic = domestic 2603:8000:D300:3650:7DF4:F5F4:69E5:4CB6 (talk) 03:21, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

 Done —C.Fred (talk) 03:23, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Editorializing, second wave feminism, questionable sources

I've never questioned a page before, so bear with me.

The inclusion of Brownmiller surprised me. She certainly does not pass the sniff test on neutrality or verifiability (as many psychologists, psychiatrists, and other feminists of her era point out).

Language like:

"Since immemorial times, women, due to their lesser physical strength, and other limitations inherent to them, such as menstruation, pregnancy and breastfeeding, have found themselves subjugated to the other half, the male, of humanity"

Seems blatantly un-neutral and unverifiable.

"Such violence may arise from a sense of entitlement, superiority, misogyny or similar attitudes in the perpetrator or his violent nature, especially against women."

This sort of thing belongs in pages about feminist theory of sexual assault. This isn't verifiable -- the cited authors aren't psychologists, and aren't writing based on science. This branch of theory is dubious from a psychiatric perspective. The introduction of this article reads vaguely like second wave soapboxing. In short, that source is reliable only insofar as it relates to feminist theory; it's not an authoritative treatment of sexual violence against women, and makes historical and psychological claims of dubious truthiness (and, ultimately, of dubious verifiability). Feminists have debated the validity of that work for a long time, but nobody contends it to be neutral. Thejosephfiles (talk) 06:31, 15 July 2024 (UTC)