Talk:Villa Tunari massacre

A fact from Villa Tunari massacre appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 20 August 2020 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that future Bolivian president Evo Morales was present at the 1988 Villa Tunari Massacre, in which nine to twelve protesting coca growers were killed?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2020/August. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Villa Tunari Massacre.

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by 97198 (talk) 01:59, 15 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Article history

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... that future Bolivian president Evo Morales was present at the Villa Tunari Massacre, in which 9 to 12 protesting coca growers were killed? Source: "En la movilización de 27 de junio de 1988, Evo Morales participó como ejecutivo del Central 2 de Agosto" Chambi O., Víctor Hugo (1988-06-27). "La Masacre de Villa Tunari Tuvo El Sello de La Intromisión de EEUU". Cambio. [1]
- ALT1:... that five US Drug Enforcement Administration agents were present at the Villa Tunari Massacre, in which 9 to 12 protesting coca growers were killed? Source: "Five DEA agents were at the base" US Department of State. Bureau of Diplomatic Security (1989). Significant Incidents of Political Violence Against Americans 1988. Washington: Department of State. ISBN 978-1-4289-6573-7.
- ALT2:... that future Bolivian president Evo Morales was present at the 27 June 1988 Villa Tunari Massacre, in which 9 to 12 protesting coca growers were killed? Source: "En la movilización de 27 de junio de 1988, Evo Morales participó como ejecutivo del Central 2 de Agosto" Chambi O., Víctor Hugo (1988-06-27). "La Masacre de Villa Tunari Tuvo El Sello de La Intromisión de EEUU". Cambio. [2]

Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Violet Dias Lannoy

5x expanded by Carwil (talk). Self-nominated at 03:47, 29 July 2020 (UTC).[reply]

Parts of this article remain unsourced. The lead could be worded better, and has not significantly been edited as the rest of the article was expanded, creating a disconnect between the two. The article as a whole doesn't clearly explain what the "repression" was, outside of the specific incident, so the background should be adjusted to make it clear for readers who would have almost no knowledge of the situation. I also have neutrality concerns, including that there is a section header specifically for allegations which seems pointy, and implications later in the article that the DEA agents were beating people and flying helicopters. CMD (talk) 15:03, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've made numerous revisions to more fully source the article and foreground the lack of clarity about the DEA's direct role in the June 27, 1988, violence, which remains a point of contention between the coca growers and the US government. The background now explains the larger coca growers' protest campaign and their opposition to the pending law on coca growing and controlled substances. I've moved the Evo Morales material out of the lead.

Side point: Outside of June 27, the US DEA's on-the-ground/in-helicopters presence is well documented ("Officially, the DEA agents are here as "advisers" to the Leopards, Bolivia's U.S.-trained antinarcotics militia. In fact, the agents -- about 30 at a time, although the exact number is classified -- have moved to the front lines." Washington Post, 1989; "Almost every time that the one Bolivian helicopter assigned to the anti-drug effort in the Chapare takes to the air in search of stamping pits, an American or Bolivian working for the United States Government goes along to help spot targets for ground troops to raid." NY Times, 1986.) Keeping to NPOV, I don't try to disentangle the allegations vs. denials of US agents' participation on June 27, 1988, but rather present and attribute both.–Carwil (talk) 18:27, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Saying the DEA took part in helicopter searches is very different from, for example, saying the DEA "would continue to terrorize the residents of Ivirgarzama...with beatings". Reading through those NY and WaPo articels I don't see support for the claim. It's also particularly emotive wording that could probably be rewritten to convey the same information in a more encyclopaedic tone. CMD (talk) 01:28, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Revised. I've cut references to the DEA in the aftermath section (which I overlooked in my previous revision) unless they are very tightly supported by the citation, and revised the emotive "terrorized" sentence. We may never know who shot from the helicopters at Ivirgarzama, and there has (to my knowledge) never been any denial from the US government on responsibility there, but I'm writing here as if the matter was in dispute. The investigative commission's conclusions about the role of the DEA/US military trainers in the shooting is now fully quoted.–Carwil (talk) 14:44, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the revisions, they were quite helpful. I would suggest using a different word to "repression" for either the specific incident (as used in the lead), or for the longer campaign (as used in Aftermath). The article should say which "anniversary commemoration" Evo Morales attended (the first?). The sentence on the 30 June strike needs rewording to clarify what exactly "which" refers to. The sentence beginning with "Some US priorities" should also be reworded, as to me it reads the opposite to what the succeeding sentence makes me think it's trying to say.

On hooks, I prefer ALT0 to ALT1, especially as information on the precise numbers of DEA agents seems to be conflicting. For both hooks I would suggest including the date of the event. CMD (talk) 12:57, 12 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the useful suggested edits. I've added to date to ALT0 as a new ALT2.—Carwil (talk) 20:12, 13 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

CMD (talk) 02:39, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 21 August 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: page moved. (non-admin closure) ~SS49~ {talk} 07:33, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Villa Tunari Massacre → Villa Tunari massacre – Massacre is usually not capitalised Jim Michael (talk) 06:53, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support for the same reason as the My Lai massacre article. It was an actual massacre, not a work titled "Villa Tunari Massacre". JIP | Talk 12:00, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom.--Carwil (talk) 13:26, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.