Talk:Vaathi

Vaathi should not be deleted

This is a notable film. It should not be deleted and it should not be draftify. I can explain how and why this film is notable.

• 1: All sources are reliable and independent they are particularly talking about this film.
• 2: The production house Sithara Entertainments is a notable production house. It has produced lot of notable films. Such as: Babu Bangaram, Premam (2016 film), Jersey (2019 film), Bheeshma, Rang De and Varudu Kaavalenu. It is also producing an upcoming blockbuster film Bheemla Nayak. So yeah it is a notable production house.
• 3: The principal photography of the film also started and it is confirmed by too many sources. I added 3 sources. 2 of them says that shooting started today and those articles were published on 7 January 2022, so it directly means that principal photography started on 7 January 2022.[1] [2] And one source directly says that shooting started on 7 January 2022.[3] Also the official announcement poster says that filming begins.
• Therefore it is a notable film. I am removing that baseless template now. Hyderabadi (talk) 16:26, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Vaathi should be the title of this article

The title should be Vaathi. The film is titled as Vaathi in Tamil language and Sir in Telugu language but Vaathi should be the title because everywhere it is first in order such as: The title starts with Vaathi here and here also Dhanush says Vaathi first. Here also they says Dhanush in and as Vaathi / Sir and here also they starts with Vaathi / Sir took off today. This reliable source also says Vaathi first, see everywhere Vaathi is first in order. So yeah it should be the title. Last but not the least, Dhanush works in Tamil cinema and obviously mostly his fans are Tamil people. So the Tamil title Vaathi should be the title of this article. That's it I guess. Hyderabadi (talk) 06:42, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

@Hyderabadi: Thats not what the point here is tho Hyderabadi. Using WP:COMMONNAME the article should have a common name present unless both versions have a different title that translates differently. The common name for this film is Sir which is the English translation of Vaathi and the title used on both the Telugu and the common English poster of this film. Now in terms of order using Sithara Entertainment's YouTube page in the description section of two videos related to this film, it is clearly stated that Telugu comes first and then Tamil [1], [2]. Now I suggest for the time being we move the page over to the common title of Sir until more sources come out over the time period of this film's production. What do you think about this Ab207? SP013 (talk) 16:05, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

The title of the article should be renamed as "Sir". Majority of the crew, such as the director, writer, producer, editor, etc primarily works in Telugu cinema. In that case, naming the title according the Telugu version is reasonable. Also, the English (common or more viable) title announced by the team is also similar to that of the Telugu version. Jayanthkumar123 (talk) 04:20, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

@SP013: Ok. Let's also ask to Ab what to do. @Ab207: Vaathi or Sir? What do you think? Hyderabadi (talk) 06:24, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Hello all. My instinct would be to use WP:COMMONNAME of the film but the sources seem to be divided for now. Another arguement is Vaathi does not need any disambiguation (unlike upcoming film for Sir) per WP:NATURAL. However, an RM would be a better way to find a solution in such cases. -- Ab207 (talk) 07:58, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

I personally think that Vaathi is the right title for the article. I think Vaathi is also a WP:COMMONNAME. After Master (2021 film) everybody knows the meaning of Vaathi. And WP:NATURAL policy says: "Using an alternative name that the subject is also commonly called in English reliable sources, albeit not as commonly as the preferred-but-ambiguous title. Do not, however, use obscure or made-up names.". So I think Vaathi is the right title for the article. Thanks Ab for letting me know about WP:NATURAL policy. Hyderabadi (talk) 04:50, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Revisiting the title situation of this article

Pinging involved editors: @Ab207, DareshMohan, Kailash29792, and Hyderabadi: So I been looking around about the WP:COMMONNAME for this article and it seems that it is indeed Sir. The reason why the common name for this film is Sir is because 1. The direct translation of Vaathi into English is Teacher/Sir and the Telugu title is already Sir for this film. To add on to this the team of the film also refers to themselves as Team Sir as indicated in these two poster releases [3] [4]. So if the team themselves refer to the common title to be Sir shouldn't that also be the article title? SP013 (talk) 14:04, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

Well, it could be argued that Sithara Entertainments is putting Vaathi first, so that is the primary version of the film. Besides, I'm not seeing any evidence that Sir is more common than Vaathi because there are too few sources in the article to arrive at any conclusion. -- Ab207 (talk) 14:14, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

@DareshMohan, Ab207, and SP013: why did Dhanush say in the trailer launch that Sir is his first direct Telugu film? Wasn’t he aware that the Telugu version is dubbed? Is it actually shot in Telugu?Theoder2055 (talk) 10:44, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

@Theoder2055 It is shot in Telugu even though there are some lip sync issues it is present in both trailers with Samuthirakani’s not properly syncing in the Telugu one while Dhanush’s doesn’t properly sync in the Tamil one till the end. But go back and look at the teaser it is clearly shot in Telugu also. SP013 (talk) 14:57, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

@SP013: I would be for a move to Sir. Per this review of the Tamil version Vaathi, a critic wrote that Being a bilingual flick, it does carry the Telugu flavour, but the sad part is many portions are not shot in Tamil, just dubbed. DareshMohan (talk) 11:29, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

@DareshMohan@Ab207 I have felt this way for a while also. I have seen the making videos for the film and you can tell their primary focus was shooting the film in Telugu whether it be the language written out in the back in Telugu in the making videos and the cast and crew also being primarily Telugu. I have noticed also that between the teasers and trailers all the Telugu stuff is blanked out in Tamil and there was no real effort to replace the “Tripathi Educational Institute” stuff in Tamil other than a few places like you can notice on Dhanush’s shirt it says the “Tripathi Educational Institute” in both Telugu and Tamil when the Tamil version is supposed to be “Thirupathi Educational Institute” so hence I feel like we should move the film to Sir because Telugu seems to be a primary focus for the film. SP013 (talk) 16:01, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• FpEAXWKaUAAldJI.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:53, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 18 February 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Although a majority of participants opposed this move, consensus is ascertained by the quality of the arguments given on the various sides of an issue, as viewed through the lens of Wikipedia policy, not by counting votes.

In this discussion editors opposing the move argued that this is a Telugu film, not a Tamil film, and so the article should use the title for the Telugu version. These arguments have no basis in policy, and so were given no weight.

Editors supporting the move argued that the proposed title was more common, and was a form natural disambiguation.

Those opposing attempted to rebut the common name argument by providing sources using the current title, but this evidence was less systematic, and thus less convincing, than the evidence from those supporting the move, and they did not attempt to argue that the current title was more common than the proposed title or that natural disambiguation was otherwise inappropriate.

As such, when the arguments are viewed through the lens of policy we see a rough consensus to move.

(As an aside, even if I had closed this move as no consensus, the result would have been the same - the last stable title, and the original title, of this article was Vaathi.)_(closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal (talk) 16:31, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

---

Sir (2023 film) → Vaathi – Judging the reception of the movie at The Hindu, The Indian Express, Hindustan Times, The News Minute, India Today and The New Indian Express, Vaathi is being used in those reviews as the primary term and introducing Sir only afterwards. To note, The Times of India published Telugu and Tamil reviews separately. Also to note that there're some reviews only targeting either Telugu (123Telugu, Great Andhra) or Tamil (Dinamalar) versions. As far as the title of this article is concerned, it's Vaathi — DaxServer (t · m · c) 17:05, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. I think the issue here is that the team did not choose a Telugu title for the film and opted for an English one. With films such as these, the question sought to answer is that is this a Tamil film or a Telugu film? From the reviews of the Tamil version, this is clearly a Telugu film. This review says that: The lip-sync issue is also there in many places.. This review says that the lip sync by a few actors goes way out of place in several portions, taking away from the scenes. This review says that shockingly some scenes were not shot in Tamil, and dubbing was shamelessly used.

For other bilingual films, the title of this film is the predominant language that the film was shot in. As established above, this is Telugu. This film was previously titled Vaathi because it was under the assumption that they would shoot all of Dhanush's scenes in Tamil (since he is a Tamil actor) but they did not. Since they shot 100% of the scenes with Dhanush in Telugu and then reshot a percentage of the film in Tamil, then it would be best to stick to the Telugu title. Also, the music director posted the Telugu poster first. DareshMohan (talk) 23:00, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

I agree with the above comments made by DareshMohan. It's better to let the article be remained as Sir. Jayanthkumar123 (talk) 06:07, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

The title of any article is the one which is used by reliable sources, not the one that the film was shot in. From WP:AT the WP:CRITERIA's first sentence states Article titles are based on how reliable English-language sources refer to the article's subject. The sources I've provided above refer to it as Vaathi. They only state Sir in brackets to inform about the Telugu version and do not refer to the movie as such — DaxServer (t · m · c) 09:31, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

What about non-reviews? There are sources that give prominence to SIR too: here, here, here, here and here. DareshMohan (talk) 10:04, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

There're other sources as well, which is why I am basing on the reception in RS. Also, your !vote rationale above is WP:OR which we shouldn't perform. And the titles of the 3 Tamil version reviews you provided themselves is Vaathi and not Sir — DaxServer (t · m · c) 12:03, 19 February 2023 (UTC) (strike 11:13, 22 February 2023 (UTC))

There're other sources which put Vaathi prominently* (forgot to write) — DaxServer (mobile) (t · m · c) 12:33, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

• Support: I agree with DaxServer. And also Vaathi is natural disambiguation. Also the movie is earning more from Tamil language than Telugu language. Hyderabadi (talk) 06:33, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose: DareshMohan has provided evidence that the Tamil version is not completely filmed, rather dubbed from Telugu. Moreover, it is an AP production since that is where PVP Cinema is based. Kailash29792 (talk) 15:56, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose: As I have stated above in the previous thread, judging by the making videos and the other factors included such as the cast and crew being predominantly from the Telugu industry it can be inferred that the film was primarily shot in Telugu and then Tamil. As stated by DareshMohan the reviews do state that the Tamil version of the film does feel dubbed which in that case wouldn't that make the Telugu version the primary version as it was 100% known to be shot in that language as I stated with the making videos predominantly featuring Telugu text in the background throughout. (Note that text can be edited through VFX for other languages just adding this here). On top of that, the film's events occurred in both Telugu and Tamil however the trailer launch of the film was only an event that happened in Telugu so there is a further emphasis that Telugu was being prioritized during filming. On top of all of this, the direct English translation for Vaathi is teacher/master/sir so wouldn't it be the best option to keep it as Sir as it is also the translation of the Tamil title? To further add on to my case, the team at least during the promotional content would always have the Telugu and Tamil titles but also have an English one that specifically stated "Sir" like these right here [5] [6]. To further expand upon this they have also referred to themselves as "Team Sir" [7] which goes to show that the production house has indeed also deemed that the title of this film is Sir. SP013 (talk) 04:01, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
• Comment: Can we all please not indulge in original research? Reliable sources are what we refer to — DaxServer (t · m · c) 09:40, 20 February 2023 (UTC) (strike 11:13, 22 February 2023 (UTC))
• Comment: So, a partially dubbed film can retain its Tamil title? It would be better to ask at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Film/Indian cinema task force. This source says that The movie, which was released in Telugu primarily, was simultaneously shot in the Tamil language as Vaathi. This source supports the fact that some of the Telugu dialogues were retained in the Tamil version: Another smart idea in Vaathi is the setting of the film, which allows the inhabitants of the town of Sholavaram to speak a smattering of Telugu. I think the word simultaneously shot is misleading because there were many scenes shot only once. Regarding original research, not many filmmakers go into depth about how much they reshot the film in each language (many times lying that they shot each scene twice), which is why to figure out which language title to use, an exception to use original language might need to be made. Regarding box office, the Telugu version is doing well too albeit a better source is needed. DareshMohan (talk) 11:17, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose: Though Dhanush is a bigger star in Tamil than Telugu (Sir being his first shot-in-Telugu film), it's mostly clear that the film is marketed as a Telugu film with a simultaneously shot Tamil version like Baahubali (though an extreme example). For further evidence, note the first look poster in English here. However, this does provide some ambiguity since in other posters which do not feature the English text (as of more recently), the Sir Telugu text and Vaathi Tamil text are used in varying orders, such as this poster and its inverse. However, just because the Tamil version has a higher gross doesn't make it just a Tamil film; using that logic, KGF 2 would be a Hindi film. When there's ambiguity, I'd go towards the producer and crew side, and barring the music director G. V. Prakash Kumar, the rest of the crew seems to be from the Telugu industry. However, I'm alternately thinking, is it possible to just title the page Vaathi/Sir (2023 film) with redirects from both Sir and Vaathi to end this issue? Athu1 05:12, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

  This article should retain both names, Sir and Vaathi. It would be much easier to do this rather than just debating that it should be one or the other. 2607:FEA8:3F43:6E00:3D48:2438:15E1:AD72 (talk) 20:33, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

  That is not how Wikipedia works. We can not have both titles as the article title it can only be one. SP013 (talk) 00:45, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

  Vaathi/Sir 2607:FEA8:3F43:6E00:3D49:1E3F:FA5D:DA34 (talk) 23:30, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

  What rule is there that states this? Redirects already exist, so I don't see how this is an issue. Athu1 (talk) 23:34, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

• Comment - I've looked at major publications and searched "Dhanush" to see neutral results - The Indian Express (also Vaathi and Sir which is used rarely), The Hindu (also Vaathi and Sir), Pinkvilla, The New Indian Express (also Vaathi and Sir), India Today (also Vaathi and Sir), The Times of India, Indulge Express (a bit difficult so Vaathi and Sir also difficult), Bollywood Hungama. I see Vaathi being used predominantly with only Bollywood Hungama's very few articles using Sir — DaxServer (t · m · c) 10:36, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
• Comment - It is true that they have tried to market it as a Tamil film. See Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Film/Indian_cinema_task_force#The_big,_bilingual_scam. I know that this is original research (and you might not consider these sources reliable) but either way they prove that the Tamil version is dubbed. This review says that "instead of generating confusion by shooting in both languages, they just decided to shoot in Telugu] and this review / this review says that "save for Naren, Dhanush and Samuthirakani, the lip sync does not match at all for other actors". DareshMohan (talk) 10:59, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

  @DareshMohan WP:OR does not apply to talk pages, my earlier comment was erroneous and thus I've stricken it off. Either way, the article title is the one that is used by reliable sources. I think we're just going back and forth on this argument. I believe I've provided all the RS sources that I can for now — DaxServer (t · m · c) 11:19, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

"Sir (upcoming film)" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Sir (upcoming film) has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 February 27 § Sir (upcoming film) until a consensus is reached. Steel1943 (talk) 18:55, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 February 2023

Table edit change box office est 67 cr to est 90 cr in 11 days. Covert96094610 (talk) 19:33, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: The source states that it is expected to touch the 90 Cr mark. As far as Wikipedia is concerned, that's original research in the form of speculation and "future history", and therefore, innapropriate. Please read WP:CRYSTAL for more info. M.Bitton (talk) 23:08, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

References

Cast

Manasi Sudhir as Samyukatha's Mother Sujaydp (talk) 16:56, 17 March 2023 (UTC)