Talk:Us and Them (song)

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Songs

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Pink Floyd Mid‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pink Floyd, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Pink Floyd on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Pink FloydWikipedia:WikiProject Pink FloydTemplate:WikiProject Pink FloydPink Floyd

Mid

This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

This article was a past project collaboration.

To-do list:

Fair use

Add fair use rationale to all images and sound samples (all except images already labeled free use).
Re-size large images around to 300 pixels (all "fair use" images), other than album covers (already done).

Articles

Expand all articles to at least Start class. Some song stubs can't be expanded and should be redirected to the relevant album article. Use the "Interstellar Overdrive" article as an example when editing a song stub.
Expand all of the Floyd's studio album articles to at least GA status.
See COTM for monthly collabs.

Project building

Add WikiProject Pink Floyd banner {{WPFloyd}} to all appropriate Talk pages.
Personally invite quality editors working on Pink Floyd articles to join the project.

If you complete one of these tasks, please remove it from the list.

This article does not yet have a related to do list. If you can think of any ways to improve the article, why not create one?

First Conversation

There's nothing in this article that describes what the song is about thematically. It assumes the reader know this. A Wiki by definition is not for specialists and expert, but a window into new things for novices who want to discover new things. I've never heard the song. Give me a hand, mate! There is too much detail about compositional elements and chords too soon. Give the novice some help up front. Put the scholarly stuff only experts and fans know later in the article. Thanks!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.206.71.42 (talk) 16:00, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What does the man in the middle of the song say? I can't exactly tell. He seems to be talking to the beat of the song.

"I mean, they're not gunna kill ya, so if you give 'em a quick short, sharp, shock, they don't do it again. Dig it? I mean he get off lightly, 'cos I would've given him a thrashing - I only hit him once! It was only a difference of right and wrong, innit. I mean good manners don't cost nothing do they, eh?"

I ammended the quote, seeing as you can hear the speech on it's own on the Doctored Version of this song --Cowards 15:43, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A fuller quote from the actual interview goes thus: "(.....'cos the thing is man...when you're drivin' on the road.....and you get someone who's that rude...)...well I mean they're gonna kill ya. So like...if you give 'em a quick sh..short, sharp shock, they don't do it again. Dig it? I mean he got off light 'cos I could've given 'im a thrashing an' I only hit 'im once. 's only a difference in right 'n' wrong innit? I mean good manners don't cost nuffing do they? Eh?" - From Capital Radio's "The Pink Floyd Story" with Nicky Horne. NH89.240.239.38 (talk) 00:59, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please only make edits if you can be sure what you are talking about. I've put Roger "The Hat" Manifold's quote back to what he ACTUALLY said. Not to what someone who has not done his research thinks he said. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.29.94.17 (talk) 02:59, 27 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Original Research

40's jazz style? That's the proof that the song is about Roger Water's father? Maybe I would believe that if I saw some kind of reference but as it stand it should probably be removed. --Cdogsimmons 03:23, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't mind a little Original Research, myself, but I can't abide Original Stupid Research! The song is no more about Eric Fletcher Waters than any other of Roger's works that take an anti-war stance. Thanks for removing that. --63.25.26.25 (talk) 04:53, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Major edit...

I modified the infobox that tells you about the album "The Dark Side of The Moon" in its generality because it had some severe errors with formatting; misaligned and a bunch of other problems to go with it. Fishdert 01:25, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Who plays the Sax on this song? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.223.23.52 (talk) 17:59, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Seems likely that Dick Parry would have played sax on it as he did the rest of the album, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.200.101 (talk) 23:37, 23 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Vietnam?

At the time this was released, many of us thought that it was an "anti-war" song targeted at Vietnam, part of the "Peace" movement. Was this just egotistical Americans, or did the English see it that way, too? (Peace sign) Sammy D III (talk) 20:51, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Song Chords/Key

The song in it's original 1979 iteration it's not on D.....it's closer to C# (it's also not on standard tuning) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.28.150.18 (talk) 06:17, 1 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Typo, 1969. Sammy D III (talk) 12:57, 1 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Considering that the album was released in 1973, your credibility isn't looking too terrific.

Anyway, when played on CD, the song is very much in D. Are you using a cassette, or a vinyl LP, or something?

But thanks for giving me a reason to listen to the original recording. I can't remember the last time I put Dark Side of the Moon on just for the sake of it!

--Ben Culture (talk) 05:31, 14 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Move request

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. No prospect of consensus to move, and sound arguments against the move rationale. Andrewa (talk) 03:43, 21 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Us and Them (song) → Us and Them
Us and Them → Us and Them (disambiguation)

– Obvious primary topic. Besides this song from one of the most notable albums ever, there's only one sociological concept for which people will not likely enter "us and them" into the search, two albums by lesser-known bands and a tribute album for Pink Floyd named after this very song. The Evil IP address (talk) 20:53, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support yeepsi (Time for a chat?) 22:23, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Not obviously a case of primary topic (assuming, it seems, that there must always be a primary topic). And if it were the primary topic, that is not the end of the story. How does the proposed move help any readers, anywhere? (See the obvious policy provision at WP:TITLE; we are interested in the concerns of readers, not of editors.) More argument needed; so let's see it. In particular, consider the usefulness of prompts that now turn up when a reader searches within Wikipedia (meaningful now: check what you get even after typing in just "us and"; but not meaningful after the proposed change). And then, consider even a naive, raw, unformatted Google search on us and them. The present article comes up at the very top, highlighted like this: "Us and Them (song) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia"; second from the top is this: "Us and Them - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" (with a snippet beginning "Us and Them can refer to: ..."). Explain how the proposed move would improve on this, for any readers anywhere. Noetica^Tea? 01:26, 14 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Like "us and them", "them and us" & "you and I", these words are almost idiomatic, are likely to occur in many contexts, and as such are likely search terms with nothing to do with the song. The article Ingroups and outgroups (aka "Us and them") is an example of academic usage.
"Them and us" is actually a well used title, three examples are: a book on Neanderthals and humans; a book on socio-economic division; &a documentary TV series.
Without the disambiguator "(song)", internal and external links to this title would be too ambiguous for anyone not familiar with Pink Floyd. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 05:54, 14 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

"Composition" section needs a little re-writing, who's up for it?

From the "Composition" section:

The tune was originally written on the piano by Richard Wright for the film Zabriskie Point in 1969 and was titled "The Violent Sequence".^[1] In its original demo form it was instrumental, featuring only piano and bass. Director Michelangelo Antonioni rejected it on the grounds that it was too unlike their "Careful with That Axe, Eugene"-esque work, which was the style of music he wanted to use. As Waters recalls it in impersonation, Antonioni's response was, "It's beautiful, but is it too sad, you know? It makes me think of church".^[2] The song was shelved until The Dark Side of the Moon where Waters put some vocals in to it.

"their 'Careful With That Axe, Eugene'-esque work"?!? Come on. That's awful.

It's true, I have read where Roger Waters said Antonioni was really only interested in "Careful With That Axe, Eugene", but didn't want to say so explicitly. But that sentence I partially quoted needs to be rewritten entirely, perhaps broken into two sentences. I just don't feel up for it right now. I will change the "Waters put some vocals in to it" to "lyrics to it". Is there anybody who knows how to write out there?

--Ben Culture (talk) 05:22, 14 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Pink Floyd - Us and Them - Film ?

Pink Floyd - Us and Them - YouTube features animation, London, New York, is this a fraud ?---Xb2u7Zjzc32 (talk) 04:23, 19 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Ref List

^ Andy Mabbett (1995-07), "Us and Them", The complete guide to the music of Pink Floyd, ISBN 978-0-7119-4301-8 {{citation}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
^ "The Making of The Dark Side of the Moon" Pt. 5 (Us and Them)

Xb2u7Zjzc32 (talk) 04:30, 19 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Andy Mabbett (1995-07), "Us and Them", The complete guide to the music of Pink Floyd, ISBN 978-0-7119-4301-8 {{citation}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)

[2] "The Making of The Dark Side of the Moon" Pt. 5 (Us and Them)

[1]

[2]