Talk:Umm Habiba

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Umm Habiba article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Biography

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles

Islam: Salaf / Shi'a Islam Top‑importance

	Islam portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Islam, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Islam-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IslamWikipedia:WikiProject IslamTemplate:WikiProject IslamIslam-related articles
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Salaf task force (assessed as Top-importance).
	This article is supported by the Shi'a Islam task force (assessed as Top-importance).

Women's History Mid‑importance

	History portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women's History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women's history and related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women's HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject Women's HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Women's HistoryWomen's History articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Women in Religion Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of the Women in Religion WikiProject, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Women in religion. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.Women in ReligionWikipedia:WikiProject Women in ReligionTemplate:WikiProject Women in ReligionWomen in Religion articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Aisha and the goat

Jesus, i was really shocked to discover that the one that send Aisha the goat was THE umm habeeba... *chills*...

I guess the Qur'an was right in chapter 66, when it warned the wifes...

--Striver 04:23, 15 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Question

What does the bolded mean?

His wife: Umm Habibah-Ramlah bint Abi Sufyan ibn Harb ibn Sakhr ibn Umayyah ibn â€˜Abdu Shams ibn Abd Manaaf.

Her mother is Safiyah bint Abi Al â€˜As ibn Umayyah ibn â€˜Abdu Shams. She is the aunt of â€˜Uthman ibn â€˜Affan ibn Abi Al â€˜As. So â€˜Uthman and Umm Habibah were 1st cousins on mothers side and 2nd cousins by her fathers side.

Umm Habibah married the prophet sallaallaahu alayhi wa sallaam in 7A.H aged 30 years. She died 44 A.H in the caliphate of Muawiyah ibn Abi Sufyan.

She has a daughter to him named Habibah bint Umm Habibah bint Abi Sufyan (this is how she is named in Isaabah). Her father is â€˜Ubaydullaah ibn Jahsh. She married Dawud ibn â€˜Urwah ibn Masâ€™uud ath-Thaqafi

She is the sister of Muawiyah. His mother is Hind bint â€˜Utbah ibn Rabeeâ€™ah. He is the one who killed â€˜Ubaydah ibn al Haarith before he was then killed by Hamzah ibn â€˜Abdul Muttalib. She also married the prophet sallaallaahu alayhi wa sallaam after the death of her husband â€˜Ubaydullaah. [1]

Who is "He"? --Striver 06:01, 15 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Muhammad's Motive for the Marriage

To Honor Her & Elevate Her Spirits After The Calamity of Husband's Treachery to Her By Apostating & Leaving Her Stranded without husband in a faraway foreign land & Supportless As She Could Not Go Back to Makkah to Her Father As He was a polytheist & Leader of the enmity to the Muslims

"There are contradictory sources. One claim that when Muhammad came to know about what had happened to her, he got worried that she might turn back from her faith like her husband."

This is a wrong supposition, she was free to go with her husband but she did not go & suffered for a year it shows the firmness of her belief & very doubtfulness of this report, probably fabricated as it does not fit the facts & logically should be discounted. The Prophet was never worried about her 'faith', he being the head of the Muslim community was worried about her 'welfare', being the most merciful person on Earth ever lived, so he offered to marry her to elevate her from that sorrow & calamity which had befallen her. The strength of the belief is from God & not from the Prophet, so if her faith was weak it would not have been strengthened it marrying the Prophet, as he was a human being only. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.149.94.65 (talk) 18:56, August 27, 2007 (UTC)

Actually the early sources do not state Muhammad's motive for marrying Umm Habiba. They simply state that he did marry her. A NPOV article should not claim to know his motive. At most, there could be a paragraph on "theories about his motive", each clearly attributed to the secondary source that speculated this motive. One theory is that he was worried about her faith (it could be wrong, but if you can find a reputable secondary source that states this, it can still be promoted as a theory that someone historically held); another is that he was worried about her material welfare; a third is that there was some kind of political advantage in an alliance between Muhammad and the daughter of Abu Sufyan; a fourth is that Umm Habiba was "one of the most beautiful women among the Arabs" and no further motive was needed. Wikipedia does not need to draw any conclusions about which of these is the correct theory.

Note also the very biased and inappropriate language: "the calamity of her husband's treachery" and "leaving her stranded in a faraway land". This needs to be attributed to the historian who expressed it like this or else removed. Petra MacDonald (talk) 23:13, 23 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 3 February 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved (non-admin closure) NNADIGOODLUCK (Talk|Contribs) 10:58, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ramla bint Abi Sufyan → Umm Habiba – I may be wrong, but per WP:COMMONNAME it seems that the page needs to be moved to Umm Habiba as that's the common name of this person which is used among the Muslims. Arabic, Persian and Turkish Wikipedia also use this name as the article's main title. On the other hand, per WP:CONSISTENCY, Umm Habiba would be the more suitable title, as another wife of Muhammad, Hind bint Abi Umayya, also has her article titled with her common name Umm Salama. This Google NGram also shows no hits for Ramla bint Abi Sufyan while Umm Habiba has been used quite a few times in some books. Keivan.f^Talk 01:07, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.