Talk:UFC rankings

Rankings on cards

Why aren't rankings added to Wikipedia entries on cards? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:630:E4:4220:883D:8293:43A1:2517 (talk) 15:32, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 October 2020

UFC Rankings please Change #1 Jon Jones to Khabib Nurmagomedov because Khabib Has won Latest Fight with Justin Gaithje Abid Oddman (talk) 14:15, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Ok Abid Oddman (talk) 14:16, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

 Not done for now: The rankings have not changed on the UFC website. Once a reliable source updates the rankings (probably by updating the UFC site) then this listing can be adjusted. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 14:26, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

• Constant spam from multiple IP addresses, Strongly For page protection. --Excutient (talk) 10:23, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: According to the page's protection level you should be able to edit the page yourself. If you seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. @Excutient: If you want page protection, due to vandalism please make a request at: WP:RFP. Terasail^[Talk] 17:07, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

Beneil Dariush

Last I checked, Assyria is not a country. Stop placing Beneil Daruish's nationality as Assyrian. He may have heritage/ancestry from that region, but he was raised in the United States from age four (25+ years), thus making him an American. If there is any other nationality one is going to place upon him, wouldn't it be the place of his birth, Iran? — Preceding unsigned comment added by MarioBayo (talk • contribs) 16:11, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Unsourced edits

@KyleBYerrick: First of all, thank you for your work on this page. Secondly, Some of your edits today don't appear in the only source provided in the article. What are they based on? Deancarmeli (talk) 18:58, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

@Deancarmeli I think this is how you answer on here or I have to use the talk page. Anyways, TSN has their own ranking page which is similar to the main UFC one. But the main UFC one only gets updated on the Tuesday after an event. If some news regarding a removed ranked fighter such as retirement or inactivity were to happen, like with Joanna, reports come in on a change on the TSN ranking page; and some MMA journalists list it as a credible source. I'm still getting used to sourcing on here so if it's not allowed, I'll just wait until the main one updates every tuesday. KyleBYerrick (talk) 12:36, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

@KyleBYerrick: Thanks for your reply. If you know of an additional source, such as that TSN, you are more than welcome to add it to the main article. The only problem was, per WP:VERIFY: "All material in Wikipedia mainspace, including everything in articles, lists and captions, must be verifiable. All quotations, and any material whose verifiability has been challenged or is likely to be challenged, must include an inline citation to a reliable source that directly supports the material.". Shortly, the information doesn't need to be true — it needs to be verifiable. Deancarmeli (talk) 13:18, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

Current Win Streaks and Title Defense Streaks

Should we add current win streaks and title defense streaks (for current champions) in the ranking tables? Txaggiemichael (talk) 04:44, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

@Txaggiemichael: As a proponent of WP:BOLD I appreciate the work you've put in adding these columns. I just wonder whether the winning streak should include non-UFC wins. My tendency is to say no, as they are somewhat deflated and distort the information presided. Deancarmeli (talk) 20:22, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

@Txaggiemichael: I second this motion by Deancarmeli, I think it makes more sense to have UFC winning streaks vs non UFC winning streaks, b/c its difficult to gauge the level of competition and how impressive a fighter is without knowing what kind of talent he was facing. Also makes sense as these are UFC ranking not just generic MMA rankings. Midgetman433 (talk) 22:37, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

@KyleBYerrick and Rcpilot9: You are by no doubt the biggest contributors to this article. I would like to know what you think of the matter. Deancarmeli (talk) 08:29, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

@Deancarmeli I agree that the column should only show UFC wins as those are more indicative of a fighters success in the promotion. I also think the column should also show losing streaks as well as win streaks. Rcpilot9 (talk) 08:35, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Interesting. You say, change its header from Win Streak to W\L Streak and use either the {{Fluc}} in it as well, or simply a +\- sign? Deancarmeli (talk) 08:57, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

@Deancarmeli Just the UFC wins will do, but maybe also having an overall win streak in brackets beside; ex. Usman: 15 (19), Volkanovski: 10 (20). Having losing streaks included might work, as all those with a "Lost to" by their name will always have a 0 if it is just win streaks. KyleBYerrick (talk) 13:49, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

@KyleBYerrick: Seems fair. Deancarmeli (talk) 08:36, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Addition of Previous Events and Dates

An idea if I could say, is whether we could also put the event/date of the fighter's previous bout, as well as the date for the upcoming bout like in Pound for pound. There might be enough space for it. Here's an example chart down below:

Rank	Fighter	Record	M	Win Streak	Last fight		Next fight
C	Charles Oliveira	31–8 (1 NC)		9 (0 def)	Defeated	Michael Chandler (UFC 262 - May 15, 2021)	vs. Dustin Poirier (UFC 269 - Dec. 11, 2021)
1	Dustin Poirier	28–6 (1 NC)		3	Defeated	Conor McGregor (UFC 264 - Jul. 10, 2021)	vs. Charles Oliveira (UFC 269 - Dec. 11, 2021)

It's for bouts that don't yet have an official wiki page, but people know from a confirmed legitmate source that this is the expected event/date: Ex. Aspinall vs. Abdurakhimov on Mar. 19. The event could also be known as Untitled UFC Event if it is unsure whether it is a PPV event or not. KyleBYerrick (talk) 14:10, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Per WP:VERIFY: "All material in Wikipedia mainspace, including everything in articles, lists, and captions, must be verifiable. All quotations, and any material whose verifiability has been challenged or is likely to be challenged, must include an inline citation to a reliable source that directly supports the material." and I think that this added information has value and applaud your work, but think that information not in the two main sources of this article has to be inline cited.
That said, your proposal doesn't really makes the verifiability of this article information any worse, so I support it. Deancarmeli (talk) 08:35, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Admin

Leon Edwards undefeated in 9 fight a row Not 1

You understand ??? 140.213.230.28 (talk) 07:58, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Leon Edwards is undefeated in his last 10 fights, but as his penultimate was a No Contest, his winning streak is indeed 1. Deancarmeli (talk) 08:24, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Format change

Hey @KyleBYerrick and Cassiopeia: I've seen the format change you've been working on, and let me start with saying I love the additional references that goes towards making this article follow much more closely after WP:VERIFY. I do want your opinion regarding a change to the "Last fight" and "Next fight" columns:

Current format

Rank	ISO	Fighter	Record	M	Win Streak	Last fight	Ref.	Next fight	Ref.
C		Glover Teixeira	33–7		6 (0 def)	Win – UFC 267 – Jan Błachowicz		TBD
1		Jan Błachowicz	28–9		0	Win – UFC 267 – Glover Teixeira		UFC Fight Night 206 – Aleksandar Rakić
2		Jiří Procházka	28–3–1		12	Win – UFC on ESPN 23 – Dominick Reyes		TBD
3		Aleksandar Rakić	14–2		2	Win – UFC 259 – Thiago Santos		UFC Fight Night 206 – Jan Błachowicz
4		Anthony Smith	36–16		3	Win – UFC Fight Night 192 – Ryan Spann		TBD
5		Thiago Santos	22–9		1	Win – UFC Fight Night 193 – Johnny Walker		UFC Fight Night 204 – Magomed Ankalaev
6		Magomed Ankalaev	16–1		7	Win – UFC Fight Night 191 – Volkan Oezdemir		UFC Fight Night 204 – Thiago Santos
7		Dominick Reyes	12–3		0	Loss – UFC on ESPN 23 – Jiří Procházka		TBD
8		Volkan Oezdemir	17–6		0	Loss – UFC Fight Night 191 – Magomed Ankalaev		TBD
9		Nikita Krylov	26–8		0	Loss – UFC Fight Night 186 – Magomed Ankalaev		TBD
10		Johnny Walker	18–6		0	Win – UFC Fight Night 193 – Thiago Santos		UFC Fight Night 202 – Jamahal Hill
11		Paul Craig	15–4–1		3	Win – UFC 263 – Jamahal Hill		TBD
12		Jamahal Hill	9–1 (1 NC)		1	Win – UFC Fight Night 193 – Jimmy Crute		UFC Fight Night 202 – Johnny Walker
13		Ryan Spann	19–7		0	Loss – UFC Fight Night 192 – Anthony Smith		UFC Fight Night 203 – Ion Cuțelaba
14		Jimmy Crute	12–3		0	Loss – UFC Fight Night 193 – Jamahal Hill		TBD
15		Ion Cuțelaba	16–6–1 (1 NC)		1	Win – UFC Fight Night 192 – Devin Clark		UFC Fight Night 203 – Ryan Spann

Suggested format

Rank	ISO	Fighter	Record	M	Win Streak	Last fight				Next fight
						Result	Event	Opponent	Ref.	Event	Opponent	Ref.
C		Glover Teixeira	33–7		6 (0 def)	Win	UFC 267	Jan Błachowicz		TBD
1		Jan Błachowicz	28–9		0	Win	UFC 267	Glover Teixeira		UFC Fight Night 206	Aleksandar Rakić
2		Jiří Procházka	28–3–1		12	Win	UFC on ESPN 23	Dominick Reyes		TBD
3		Aleksandar Rakić	14–2		2	Win	UFC 259	Thiago Santos		UFC Fight Night 206	Jan Błachowicz
4		Anthony Smith	36–16		3	Win	UFC Fight Night 192	Ryan Spann		TBD
5		Thiago Santos	22–9		1	Win	UFC Fight Night 193	Johnny Walker		UFC Fight Night 204	Magomed Ankalaev
6		Magomed Ankalaev	16–1		7	Win	UFC Fight Night 191	Volkan Oezdemir		UFC Fight Night 204	Thiago Santos
7		Dominick Reyes	12–3		0	Loss	UFC on ESPN 23	Jiří Procházka		TBD
8		Volkan Oezdemir	17–6		0	Loss	UFC Fight Night 191	Magomed Ankalaev		TBD
9		Nikita Krylov	26–8		0	Loss	UFC Fight Night 186	Magomed Ankalaev		TBD
10		Johnny Walker	18–6		0	Win	UFC Fight Night 193	Thiago Santos		UFC Fight Night 202	Jamahal Hill
11		Paul Craig	15–4–1		3	Win	UFC 263	Jamahal Hill		TBD
12		Jamahal Hill	9–1 (1 NC)		1	Win	UFC Fight Night 193	Jimmy Crute		UFC Fight Night 202	Johnny Walker
13		Ryan Spann	19–7		0	Loss	UFC Fight Night 192	Anthony Smith		UFC Fight Night 203	Ion Cuțelaba
14		Jimmy Crute	12–3		0	Loss	UFC Fight Night 193	Jamahal Hill		TBD
15		Ion Cuțelaba	16–6–1 (1 NC)		1	Win	UFC Fight Night 192	Devin Clark		UFC Fight Night 203	Ryan Spann

Sources

Splitting these 2 colums to 5 makes the table look much cleaner, in my opinion, and gives a better context to what the reference is referencing. Thanks again for your work. Deancarmeli (talk) 10:38, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

@Deancarmeli and KyleBYerrick: Good day. Prior to the change of format and references I added, the article would failed the notability guidelines of Wikipedia as there are only 2/3 sources in the article for information added or changed should supported by independent, reliable sources for verification, and that was the reason I added the references for I would not want to nominate this article for deletion. I added the info (next fight column) as it is the same info which on List of current UFC fighters 's results/next fight/Status column for the ease of adding (copy and paste the next fight and refs) the info in two articles. In List of current UFC fighters we cant split into 2 columns as the info would also included "status" such as injury or violation of USADA PED use (suspension) or legal troubles or etc. However, I think Deancarmeli's suggestion is a good one for clarification of the info but a lot more work for the editors who upgrade the info daily and weekly for fight announcement/next fight, fight results, change of opponent or cancellation of the fight for we can just copy and past the info (I update the fighters next fight, fight result, suspension, and etc on all UFC fighters, UFC events and list of current UFC fighters, bonuses, year in UFC, event in UFc and etc for such I know how much work that is when the info is updated in different format (need to update in at least 4 articles in different way) when a fight is announced/change/cancelled/results). If you have notice, the way we update the fight announcements and results/cancellation/missed weight in the fighter's page is in similar format in every fighter page which is the recommendation in the WikiProject to save time when updating. Lastly, I would like to thank both of your time spent on the contribution in the project (Wikipedia) especially in the MMA related articles. Stay safe and best. Cassiopeia talk 23:45, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

D I do like the suggested format as it does look more clean & organized. My only question, and this is just a nitpick, is whether to put fighter-event or event-fighter, as below. Again, nitpick, so it doesn't really matter.

Event/Fighter

Rank	ISO	Fighter	Record	M	Win Streak	Last fight				Next fight
						Result	Event	Opponent	Ref.	Event	Opponent	Ref.
C		Glover Teixeira	33–7		6 (0 def)	Win	UFC 267	Jan Błachowicz		TBD
1		Jan Błachowicz	28–9		0	Win	UFC 267	Glover Teixeira		UFC Fight Night 206	Aleksandar Rakić

Fighter/Event

Rank	ISO	Fighter	Record	M	Win Streak	Last fight				Next fight
						Result	Opponent	Event	Ref.	Opponent	Event	Ref.
C		Glover Teixeira	33–7		6 (0 def)	Win	Jan Błachowicz	UFC 267		TBD	TBD
1		Jan Błachowicz	28–9		0	Win	Glover Teixeira	UFC 267		Aleksandar Rakić	UFC Fight Night 206

Sources

The changes made in the past year are amazing. I just started watching UFC in Fall 2020, saw the ranking page to keep myself in the loop, and it was barely getting updated. I decided to look how to properly edit, and just went for it. It was just the flags, names, records and rank movements (very small table). I'm still learning the refs and won't be able to edit all the time, but I do appreciate the time you guys have for making this happen. Especially Cassiopeia for taking approx. 12+ hours in getting all the refs down. Thank you for keeping us on our toes. KyleBYerrick (talk) 01:11, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

@Deancarmeli and KyleBYerrick: Hi, OK since both of you find the extra columns format then we have consensus for the change as per KyleBYerrick version). I believe both of you would help to update the info and that would be appreciated as besides editing all the MMA related ages, I am also one of the counter vandalism and new page reviewer trainers for such extra few pair of hands would be good. Spending 9 hours to work on the new format is no big deal, I spent week on updating and change the List of current UFC fighters for weeks and removed 1/3 info of the info 2 years later due to the file was getting way too big (even the current file size is still considered big file for Wikipedia). KyleByerrick, if you want to know some basic MMA editing info and the norm, then let me know as I can send you a list of info so you wont stumble into some mistakes or receive some warning messages. Stay safe guys and best. Cassiopeia talk 07:55, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

@Cassiopeia: I see your point in keeping this article's table format compatible with that of List of current UFC fighters. I suggest that the format of the latter will be changed as well to the one I've proposed, or another of its nature, to keep them aligned. I also think that the current form of List of current UFC fighters in which either the previous or next fights are shown in that one column, but never both, needs to be thought over – but that should be discussed in its talk page.
@KyleBYerrick: I personally prefer having the opponent before the event like in your bottom example, but it's of small importance to me. This is not a hill I'd die over, if you prefer the other option. Getting the page to the upper option would take much less time and effort, thogh. Deancarmeli (talk) 09:04, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

@Deancarmeli and KyleBYerrick:, List of current UFC fighters is extremely big as was threaten to be splited into two articles and that was the reason why I removed 1/3 of the info after I have put a lot of info there. We can put previous fight and next fight info due to (1) increase file size and (2) too many column /info in one row and the text will be very small and very difficult for editors to view especially in mobile devices. Personally, I would like to keep the same info for both UFC Ranking and the Current list of UFC fighters as when fights are announced and post fight result are easy to update. I spend every weekend many hours just to update the fight results and if UFC Rankings in another format, to me it just a lot of work update that after fight by myself unless both of you would help updating it and to keep in mind we have yet to mention fight announcements. Also note, to change a format do take a lot of time especially in the list of current UFC fighters for there are over 600 fighters info to be changed and many editors (I hope not you guys) would just edit Wikipedia in short terms and not for many years in mind which would leave us the regular long term editors to step up to update the info. If both of you do not wish to help, then I think the current format would be the better choice. Stay safe and best. Cassiopeia talk 09:41, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

@Cassiopeia: If we will change the table formats, I could do it with a cleanup script in not too long a time or effort. As I said, I do accept that there is a benefit in keeping the formats "copy-past compatible". Having said that, Is there a format you'd support for List of current UFC fighters instead of the current "Result / next fight / status" column? How about one like the suggested 4 "Last fight" columns, with "Result / next fight / status" replacing "Last fight". For future fights, "Result" could be set empty or "TBD" and "Event", "Opponent" & "Ref." will stay the same. For "status" cases, the first 3 of those cells could be merged to allow space for the text. Deancarmeli (talk) 11:05, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

ISO	Name	Age	Ht.	Nickname	Result / next fight / status				Endeavor record	MMA record
					Result	Event	Opponent	Ref.
	Cub Swanson *	41	5 ft 7 in (1.70 m)	Killer	Win	UFC Fight Night 199 (Las Vegas)	Darren Elkins		18–11	28–12
	Max Holloway	33	5 ft 11 in (1.80 m)	Blessed	TBD	UFC 272 (Las Vegas)	Alexander Volkanovski		19–6	23–6
	Daniel Pineda	39	5 ft 7 in (1.70 m)	The Pit	Suspended and fined $2,554.38 by NAC for testing positive for amphetamine. Eligible to fight again on March 26, 2022.				4–5 (1 NC)	27–14 (1 NC)

Sources

@Deancarmeli and KyleBYerrick:, KyleBYerrick, pls hold on to the changes as even thought the preference is to have more columns but if both of you are not keen to help up and update them for years to come then pls do not do want would be no maintainable. For now, no changes shold be made. Let me be clear here even with all the sources in the page, the subject of this article is still not notable for the fights info is not part of "UFC rankings". Info on UFC Rankings should be related to "UFC rankings" such as the history, who are the ppl vote for the rankings, which fighters ranked the longest in certain position and etc. I added the sources so the info can be verified for whoever, put the info fails the most important Wikipedia policy - verification. The UFC rankings for the present stage should be in UFC page and the info also in List of current UFC fighters page as info is relevant in both page (one of the section of the page) and both pages are notable. That is the reason I didnt edited this page until last week. This page might face deletion.

Dencarmeli, I dont think I explained myself well when I stated the amount of work and consistence on MMA related pages would best to maintain. I have edited more than 9K on List of current UFC fighters page - see here ( under Top edited pages) and the most edited editors on the page - see here Top editors and Year counts where I started to added a lot of info and formated the list since 2017 May and need to removed 1/3 of the size to present the page to be split). I do welcome changes but also welcome consistence. I have seen many mma editors giving suggestions without knowing some of the background or guidelines or have no idea the amount of time to make the changes especially maintain the page. There are only about a dozen of regular mma editors who edited more than 2 years. 50% of new mma editors vandalized the page and the 30% stick around for some month, and another 15% editor sparingly here and there for about a year. I understand the format you suggested; however, this just make so much worst for updating the fights/results/etc - I spent a lot of time editing the page and I have tried hard to format the page wiht most information and yet to keep the size down (the page is one of the biggest page in Wikipedia) and ease of updating. You can check the page history log to see how often and time I have spent. If you cant not help regularly for years to come, then pls understand it what I have said above for I have updated mma related pages "everyday" for more than 4.5 years and I have closed to 200k edits as per to date. Sorry, I cant support your suggestion. Cassiopeia talk 06:00, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

@Cassiopeia: our contribution to this project is known and valued. As you may see, I haven't made any changes to current formats and don't plan to as long as where having this important discussion of the future of these articles. Could you please elaborate why the suggested format, if applied to both pages (by me, if needed to), won't be easily maintained? As is see it, this format will be copy-paste compatible between the pages and won't increase either of their tables widths. Again, I do not doubt your devotion to this project. I just want to learn of your specific grievances and misgivings in order to build a more readable and easy to maintain format. Deancarmeli (talk) 08:50, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

@Deancarmeli: We have interacted in the past before and no matter how I had explained it and how many time I had tried to make you understand, you seemed stand on your view. You have edited only 3 times in the List of current UFC fighters page and it is not about the readability of the info but beatified the table. Just like in the List of UFC event past event section, it used to row format and not combined them but you have changed it, to me, it is not easy to related when viewing in mobile device or small screen devices. It is easy to suggest a big change for over 600 fighters and not doing the changes and maintain it and I have explained the reasons. Again, no support from me and I think we have to agree we disagree on this want. Case close and no point to discuss further. Stay safe and best. Cassiopeia talk 10:31, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

@Cassiopeia: I'm sorry, but you are keep arguing the "what" and not the "why". Why do you find the suggested format less easy to maintain? This is a discussion, and Wikipedia discussions do have guidelines. Please explain your view on the merit to both KyleBYerrick and me. Otherwise, it seems that you'll be the only editor to object a change.
Additionaly, the "We have interacted in the past", the "You have edited only 3 times in the List of current UFC fighters page", and the "I have edited more than 9K on List of current UFC fighters page" are given as examples of Arguments to avoid on discussion pages in WP:ABP. Please, let us speak on the point and not of the person. Deancarmeli (talk) 12:58, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

""Comment"" Hey so on the List of current UFC fighters, making it any bigger will lead to it getting on the radar off the Wikipedia Admins. Also while the changes can stay on the rankings page, I don't see how it adds anything new to the current format.HeinzMaster (talk) 22:09, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

UFC 293 MIDDLEWEIGHT Rankings (Adesanya Error?)

Upon the newest update of the middleweight division and its new look at the top, I noticed that Adesanya’s spot looked off in some way. It didn’t take long. His Nigerian flag has been replaced with (not New Zealand or even China) Niger, the country sitting north of Nigeria. Yet still, his birth town Lagos is at the southernmost end of Nigeria, over 600km away from the closest point of Niger. Was this a mistake, or have I been living under a rock? 173.238.156.74 (talk) 08:13, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

Nikita Krylov Flag

Nikita Krylov is a ranked UFC Light Heavyweight fighter from Ukraine. However, he is a Donbass separatist, trains in Russia, and the UFC website does not give him a flag. I am bringing this up because I am tired of this back and forth swap between no flag, Ukrainian flag, and Russian flag. -Ogorki the Picklehog (talk) 03:05, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

I got tired of it months ago and have just slipped into passively letting people switch it.

Though for the record, my vote is always what they choose to fight under, in this case, no flag. Nswix (talk) 03:28, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Belal Muhammad Flag

Whenever Belal Muhammad fights, the UFC shows the Palestine flag in their displays which includes UFC 304. Should it be changed to that or this page based on citizenship so it should be kept as USA? Creatorial (talk) 17:40, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

IDK, its like the Krylov flag above. We really should come together to establish a consensus, possibly here. Nswix (talk) 18:48, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

@Nswix and Creatorial: pls read the Keys/Note on List of current UFC fighter section: We use Sherdog info as UFC is considered not independent nor reliable source (UFC is a promoter and a private company - info they provide has not third party to vent accuracy or fact, just like any other companies, not like a major newspapers.Moreover, it is not about which country or countries they fighter(s) want to represent, (pls note a person might have dual citizenship), but it is about the info is source by independent, reliable source especially when his birth country is known like Belal which is United States and not about their ethnicity, heritage, bloodline, which country they want to represent and etc. Cassiopeia talk 23:38, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

It does not seem like there is any singular method for dictating which flag is put next to which fighter. You say Sherdog is used, but for example Ilia Topuria is marked with a Spanish flag on Sherdog but a Georgian one here on this page. Some fighters are noted with the flag of their country of birth (e.g. Kamaru Usman, Israel Adesanya), some with the flag of their country of residence (e.g. Leon Edwards, Khamzat Chimaev), and some with the flag of their ancestral homeland (e.g. Ilia Topuria, Rafael Fiziev).

Something like this would be especially tricky in the case of someone like Rafael Fiziev. He was born in Kazakhstan, grew up in Kyrgyzstan and currently resides in Thailand; but he chooses to represent his ancestral homeland of Azerbaijan. I feel like the most respectful thing would be to represent the fighters on this list with the flag of the country that they themselves choose to represent.

Another example; take Shavkat Rakhmonov. He was born and raised in Uzbekistan, but he represents Kazakhstan and has become a huge inspiration for the nation's MMA scene at large. It would be quite nonsensical to put an Uzbek flag next to his name given how much of a cultural force he has become for the nation of Kazakhstan. I believe the best and most respectful solution would be to simply go with the flags that the UFC fighters themselves choose to fight under. Kanna6581 (talk) 13:49, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Shavkat currently resides in Kazakhstan and Fiziev has Azerbaijani citizenship according to Wikipedia so their flags make sense. I think fighters should have more than just an ancestral connection (ex. birthplace, upbringing, residency) if they are to represent a country. Rcpilot9 (talk) 17:55, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Personally I am of the opinion that if the UFC, the very company that provides the rankings that this page lists, deems a certain flag permissible for usage by a certain fighter, that this page should reflect that as well. Kanna6581 (talk) 18:13, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Inconsistency regarding flags

I posted a reply in the Belal Muhammad flag thread, but I decided to create a new one as this is not limited to the current situation regarding Belal Muhammad's flag on this page.

It seems to be completely random which flag is assigned to which fighter. Some are assigned the flag of their nation of birth (e.g. Kamaru Usman, Israel Adesanya), some the flag of their country of residence (e.g. Leon Edwards, Khamzat Chimaev), and some simply the country of their ethnicity (e.g. Ilia Topuria, Rafael Fiziev). This has been brought to my attention as I only first found this page a couple days ago and was surprised to see the US flag next to Belal's name as he himself chooses to represent the Palestinian flag. Upon trying to change this I was told that the criteria for which flag is used for which fighter is different on this page, but then at the same time there doesn't seem to be any singular agreed upon criteria at all. Why not simply put in the flags that the fighters themselves choose to represent in their respective careers? How is that not the most sensical and respectful option to go with? Kanna6581 (talk) 18:06, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Two-Flag Format Suggestion

There has been a lot of talk and edits regarding the fighter flags as what should be considered the correct choice. When determining a flag, we take into consideration: the fighter's place of birth, their citzenship, where they train, who they specifically say they're representing, and our most common source via Sherdog.com per third-party rules. That being said, even Sherdog's info can be outdated at times. The following six fighters are the ones with the most talk regarding their flag situation: Belal Muhammad, Khamzat Chimaev, Manel Kape, Nikita Krylov, Ilia Topuria, & Rafael Fiziev.

I would like to make a format suggestion for discussion among fellow editor by adding a secondary flag to some fighters who flag representation is a hot debate. As seen below with Ilia Topuria:

Rank	ISO	Fighter	Record	Win Streak	M	Weight class	Status	Next fight
								Event	Opponent	Ref.
1		Islam Makhachev	26–1	14		Lightweight	Lightweight Champion
2		Alex Pereira	12–2	5		Light heavyweight	Light heavyweight Champion
3		Jon Jones	27–1 (1 NC)	5		Heavyweight	Heavyweight Champion	UFC 309	Stipe Miocic
4		Ilia Topuria	15–0	15		Featherweight	Featherweight Champion	UFC 308	Max Holloway

The format doesn't take up a lot of space and would only be applied to fighters whose flag representation is disputed. There are rules that we do follow that might contradict this suggestion, but I would simply like to contribute a potential middle ground, that's all. NOT EVERY FIGHTER would need the two flags, just those being debated. Also, only TWO FLAGS would be allowed in the format, as the saying goes "Three's a Crowd". This is in no means final. Merely a suggestion that I would like to put out to several contributing editors. AGAIN, just a suggestion; if you agree with the format, DO NOT implement yourself until a consensus can be reached among many parties. I would love to hear discussion regarding ways to improve for better info. KyleBYerrick (talk) 19:14, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

• This still feels like a lot more work and things we'll have to revert to me (people deleting one flag cause its unworthy, adding unsourced flags because they have an attatchment to it because that person is vaguely connected to it through a parent, etc) but I'm open to trying it if it cuts down on vandalism long-term Nswix (talk) 20:28, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

  @Nswix: That is a downside I agree with, that there could be potential for more vandalism regarding vague flags, especially if someone suggests adding specific regions or U.S. States. It's too much to ask people to use their own sense to determine "does this flag need to be here?". The hope was to clear out persistent vandals and gain more consistency with the flags. Another option would be to directly add Sherdog as an official source to the page and change the flags to match that. But that might mean having to add a Sherdog source to each fighter, which might be too much work as it comes to over 170. KyleBYerrick (talk) 21:26, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

  • @KyleBYerrick: Like I said, it's worth a try though, who knows. And thanks for all your work on this page, it's been really great having someone dedicated to it. Nswix (talk) 23:00, 22 October 2024 (UTC)