Talk:Tropical cyclones in 2020

Feedback from New Page Review process

I left the following feedback for the creator/future reviewers while reviewing this article: What if we don't have any tropical cyclones this year? ; )..

Whoisjohngalt (talk) 21:37, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

Cyclone Ferdinand

So, in the February section of the article, it says Tropical Cyclone Ferdinand dissipated yesterday, but in the article 2019-20 Australian region cyclone season it says Cyclone Ferdinand is still active. Is the Australian region article outdated, or is this article wrong? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chicdat (talk • contribs) 11:03, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

Global conditions

So, we're in neutral ENSO conditions. Is that worth mentioning in the first (empty) section of the article? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 16:14, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

@Hurricanehink: I don't think COVID belongs in this section since it isn't a meteorological condition affecting TC formation. I don't know exactly where to put it, but it should go elsewhere in my opinion. Noah^Talk 13:59, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

IMO it still falls under "global conditions" because it's conditions about the world. Eventually (and I suppose it could be now) we could split it off into its own section, and later into its own article on Impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on tropical cyclones or Impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on tropical cyclone preparedness. There's already an article on Impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on science and technology, so perhaps the content could go there, with a link (and section) from this article if it gets too lengthy? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:11, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Covid

Pinging FleurDeOdile and Jason Rees.

Yea yea, the pandemic sucks and it's not always fun to think about, but it's affecting every part of the world today. Future historians will remember 2020 just like we remember the Spanish flu of 1918. If we had an article on Tropical cyclones in 1918 (maybe someday) we might be able to add some bits about shelter concerns, but I kinda doubt that info was out there considering it was over a century ago. I know the virus isn't directly affecting the tropical cyclones, but it's affecting the human response to them, and that's why I think it's important to include in this article. I know FleurDeOdile disagreed (and removed the content), while Jason Rees was the one who brought it up to me (from his work on Harold) that maybe we should include it. Any thoughts? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:46, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

A short mention is indeed worth to include for the impact on response. Maybe it will relate only to one cyclone in Vanuatu though. Wykx (talk) 15:01, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Unfortunately the impacts associated with COVID-19 and tropical cyclones are not just limited to Vanuatu and Harold. For starters, you have Fiji, Tonga and the Solomon Islands impacted and the boat was chartered because of COVID 19. Then we have to wonder about the impacts of COVID on the global models, with less ships, less aeroplane observations etc, ultimately less observations could mean that the accuracy of TC Forecasts drop.Jason Rees (talk) 16:44, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Lead

I tried expanding the lead, writing this:

Throughout 2020 so far, 30 tropical cyclones have formed, all in the southern hemisphere, in bodies of water known as tropical cyclone basins. They include the south-west Indian Ocean, the waters around Australia from 90°E to 160°E, and the south Pacific Ocean. There was also a subtropical cyclone in the southern Atlantic Ocean. Of the 31 tropical or subtropical cyclones, various weather agencies named 19 of them when the weather systems attained maximum sustained winds of 35 knots (65 km/h, 40 mph). The strongest storm of the year so far is Cyclone Harold in the South Pacific Ocean.

Tropical cyclones are primarily monitored by a group of ten warning centres, which have been designated as a Regional Specialized Meteorological Center (RSMC) or a Tropical Cyclone Warning Center (TCWC) by the World Meteorological Organisation. These are the United States National Hurricane Center (NHC) and Central Pacific Hurricane Center, the Japan Meteorological Agency (JMA), the Indian Meteorological Department (IMD), Météo-France, Indonesia's Badan Meteorologi, Klimatologi, dan Geofisika, the Australian Bureau of Meteorology (BOM), Papua New Guinea's National Weather Service, the Fiji Meteorological Service (FMS) as well as New Zealand's MetService. Other notable warning centres include the Philippine Atmospheric, Geophysical and Astronomical Services Administration (PAGASA) and the United States Joint Typhoon Warning Center (JTWC). The Brazilian Navy Hydrographic Center named the subtropical cyclone in the South Atlantic Ocean.

Gumballs678 reverted my edit, saying we need to keep the line of "tropical cyclones will form within seven different tropical cyclone basins". Yes, we know in all likelihood that a storm could form any week now in any of the northern hemisphere basins. At this point in the year, no storms have formed in the northern hemisphere. I wanted to expand on the lead to reflect the actual activity of the year. It can be updated/added when storms form in the other basins. To say "tropical cyclones will form within seven different tropical cyclone basins" is WP:CRYSTAL. Regarding the part in italics, Gumballs678 wrote 'We also shouldn't include the Brazilian Navy Hydrographic Center as a notable warning centre, because they're not officially recognized by the WMO'. That's true, the South Atlantic isn't a warning center. I intentionally worded this to reflect the naming of Kurumi, included in "tropical cyclones in 2020", despite it being the lone subtropical cyclone to form so far in 2020. I'm not proposing excluding it for any arbitrary reason, because that would be just making a point, when really we're just trying to make the best possible article for the public. I'd like to discuss the lead. I'm not trying to do anything controversial. This is a new type of article, and I think we need to be clear, but also careful how we explain stuff to the readers. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:35, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

The lead was a rough and ready one that I created earlier this year but I feel that the TC's will form in 7 basins is not crystal balling, as we all know that TC's will develop within the 4 basins of the NHEM (Atl, EPAC, WPAC and NIO) in addition to the 3 basins of the SHEM. Otherwise why do we have season articles so early?Jason Rees (talk) 17:43, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

I think we can expand on the lead by summarizing that at this point, no TC's have formed in the NHEM. Obviously reflecting on the current activity is important, and the lead should have that, but like it's been stated, the NHEM will have TC's and all seven basins will have at least one TC at some point during the year. And because the SATL is not an official basin, it doesn't seem necessary to include Kurumi in the lead. Personally, I think it would confuse readers to include it. As for a summary of the current activity throughout the year, when a TC does form in the NHEM, we can say something along the lines of, until X date, no TC's formed in the NHEM. Go ahead and include Harold as the strongest TC of the year in the lead, because that's something important I think to include, that will be there at the end of the year regardless. --Gumballs678 (talk) 17:58, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

But Gumballs678, if we mention the total number of storms and we include Kurumi, then we're providing false info in the lead. Kurumi was a subtropical cyclone, but it should be included here because we tend to include all SC's in this type of article. It sounds like you were fine with most of my addition to the lead, but mostly disagreed that I didn't emphasize the northern hemisphere basins yet, right? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:03, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Kurumi is included. It is one of the (sub)tropical cyclones of the year. However, mentioning it as you did, would confuse readers. Yes, it is a subtropical cyclone, but its possible it won't be the only one in the year. It is included in the total number of storms, because it fits the requirements of being a cyclone. Its cold core is the primary difference between it and the other tropical cyclones of the year. Its best to leave Kurumi in the monthly summaries. Gumballs678 (talk) 02:44, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

But we need to add the Brazil agency if we include Kurumi. It says 31 TC's formed in 7 TC basins, which is incorrect. Kurumi is one of those 31, and it wasn't in one of the 7 TC basins. That's why I felt we needed to include the Brazilian Navy. I re-added the lead I wrote, tweaked the opening sentence, and added Brazil as one of the "Other notable warning centres". ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 13:03, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

That flows better, I think. But, I think if we're going to say "There was one subtropical cyclone in the Southern Atlantic", we should include it similar to something like, "There have been 31 TC's formed and 19 named throughout the year, including one subtropical cyclone in the SATL." That way, Kurumi is still included in the total count, despite it forming in an unofficial basin. --Gumballs678 (talk) 15:22, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Pressures

@Hurricaneboy23: The firm consensus of WP:WPTC is to use RSMC pressures, so this is non-negotiable. WP:OSE is not an argument.--Jasper Deng (talk) 20:54, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

Formatting Question

I'm trying to figure out the best, and proper way to mention Tropical Storm Omar in the Atlantic as a tropical cyclone in the monthly summaries. The storm is included in the total monthly count of tropical cyclones in August, as it formed in August. But, I cannot find the proper wording to include it as a named storm in September. Maybe something like, "So far in September, there have been five tropical cyclones that have developed. Four of these have been named, plus an additional storm--Tropical Storm Omar--which formed in August but was not named until September." Seems wordy to me still, but maybe someone else has a better idea? Gumballs678 (talk) 15:33, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Possible Mediterranean-Like cyclone?

I’ve noticed that there is a area of clouds in the Mediterranean that seem to be cyclonic. Is this a tropical/subtropical cyclone? It seems to look tropical. -Shift674- (talk) 12:02, 16 September 2020 (UTC) Shift674

Shift674 Technically, yes, "Medicanes" as they're called do meet the definitions of a tropical/subtropical cyclone. The Mediterranean Sea isn't an official basin, but medicanes have been included in the storm summaries in previous years before. However, I would err on the side of caution in adding it in solely because of this. Perhaps @Jason Rees: could provide more insight on whether it would be acceptable to add it or not. Gumballs678 (talk) 18:33, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Yes the system in the Mediterranean is almost certainly a tropical cyclone, however, there is no formal consensus as to if it is a tropical cyclone or if tropical cyclones exist in the region. As a result, we can not really include it in any tropical cyclone article until someone reliable like a warning centre or the WMO calls it one as otherwise its original research.Jason Rees (talk) 21:50, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Ianos 🐔 Chicdat ^{Bawk to me!} 10:31, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

Some regional met centers have called "Ianos" or whatever they want to call it a "tropical frontal system" or a "subtropical cyclone." ~ Destroyeraa🌀 13:46, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

@Jason Rees, Gumballs678, Chicdat, and Shift674: Found this source: [1]

My understanding is that is a fan site like Force 13 that isnt really reliable. FWIW Ianos or whatever you wish to call it has been put into the European Windstorm season and the Medicanes article but I dont think it's worth mentioning it here until someone reliable calls it a TC.Jason Rees (talk) 13:55, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

@Jason Rees: Lots of hype going around about TS Ianos. Even Accuweather, which is reliable, says that its a Tropical-like cyclone with a warm core. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 14:06, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

@Destroyeraa: I think Mediterranean-like tropical cyclones are similar to those in the South Atlantic, in that they form in a "basin" that isn't recognized by the WMO. However, there is consensus that the South Atlantic can support tropical/subtropical formation. There's a fine line, and we have to draw it somewhere. Gumballs678 (talk) 14:36, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

@Gumballs678: Ianos is drawing more hype than Sally on Wikipedia (wow!). The Mediterranean sea should be a basin, but it is not up to us to decide. Storms have formed there since the 1980s, but the WMO refuses the notice them. Now, there is a white marker thing in the Summary section that says "Mediterranean sea". That means, storms like Ianos can be put there? Zorbas 2018 was put into Tropical cyclones in 2018.~ Destroyeraa🌀 14:46, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

That's true. If we're gonna include, we need to keep the unofficial, or put a note on it somewhere. Gumballs678 (talk) 15:11, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

This is my personal view but I think that any mention of Tropical Cyclones in the Mediterranean Sea, should be removed from the Tropical cyclones in xxxx as it isn't a basin and we can not classify systems as tropical cyclones just because they are tropical like after all an invest is tropical like. I would be very careful @Destroyeraa: about saying that the WMO refuses to recognise the area as a basin as i doubt its true.Jason Rees (talk) 15:25, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

@Gumballs678 and Jason Rees: The WMO does not recognize the Mediterranean as a basin and will continue to refuse to do so unless storms form on a yearly basis and are in a season. Before, I added Ianos there as an unofficial storm, but Gumballs and you reverted it with a good enough rational. Jason, does that mean we should delete Zorbas and the other Met sea systems from the tropical cyclones in xxxx pages? @Hurricanehink, Cyclonebiskit, Hurricane Noah, and Jasper Deng:, what do you guys think? ~ Destroyeraa🌀 15:29, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

Add Ianos, but also with a note that is telling everyone that Ianos/Janus is NOT A TROPICAL CYCLONE, it is a tropical-LIKE cyclone and to add a link to Mediterranean tropical-like cyclones in the note. @Hurricanehink, Destroyeraa, Shift674, Cyclonebiskit, Jasper Deng, Jason Rees, and Hurricane Noah: What do you all think of that? Because Wikipedia is not the National Hurricane Center. 🐔 Chicdat ^{Bawk to me!} 10:13, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Has anyone actually called Ianos a tropical cyclone? Not just medicane, not just tropical-like, but an actual tropical cyclone? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 18:27, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

If Ianos is a fully tropical cyclone, then what would happen? That's what I'd like to know. 🐔 Chicdat ^{Bawk to me!} 10:16, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

The damage that the web and unofficial names can cause (medicane, eurocane, etc.) also influencing the scientific community it's crazy. It's clear that in early 1980s studies, tropical cyclones appearing over the Mediterranean were viewed as impossible as tropical cyclones were typical systems of the tropics and warm waters. Hence the combination Tropical "Like" Cyclone. They were seen as hybrids (subtropics) although this was in contrast with the term subtropical as mature Medicane are fully tropical cyclones. Today we know well that tropical cyclones can sometimes be generated even outside the tropics and on waters below 24-21 ° C from a trasformation called tropical transition. These tropical cyclones originated from cold precursors, like Medicanes. We remember Hurricane Pablo, Hurricane Karl, Hurricane Alex, Tropical Storm Grace. Some of these storm formed at higher latitudes and over colder waters than did Cyclone Ianos, which formed on very hot water and in the middle of the hurricane season. I remember that a short experimental period by SAB-NOAA officially identified the cyclone Rolf (2011) as a tropical storm of intensity T3.0 Dvorak, and the Mediterranean is among the basins where the possibility of tropical cyclones is rare but possible. There is no doubt that some Medicane (Tlc) are tropical cyclones and many great meteorologists agree with this. It is the average public that does not seem to accept this. The fact that no exists an official agency for Mediterranean tropical cyclones complicates matters. Saying TLC leaves you in doubt. Cyclones in the world are classified as extratropical, subtropical and tropical cyclones, not TLC. This problem exists only with cyclones in the Mediterranean, and this is extremely inconsistent. If a cyclone like Pablo that forms from cold precursor near latitude 40 ° and over 21°C sst is a tropical cyclone, Ianos is also a tropical cyclone. If Ianos is a TLC then Hurricane Pablo, Hurricane Karl, Tropical Storm Grace and others they should be. The only difference is that they have an official agency like the NHC. The new meteorology should supplant the obsolete one. Many Medicane are tropical cyclones. @Hurricanehink, Destroyeraa, Shift674, Gumballs678, Chicdat, Cyclonebiskit, Jasper Deng, Jason Rees, and Hurricane Noah: Daniele_Bianchino_Roma_Italy (talk) 23:55, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Amanda-Cristobal

I think that Tropical Storms Amanda and Cristobal should be merged into one bar because it is only one tropical cyclone that changed basins. In addition, every tropical cyclone year is an orphan as far as I know. I know how to type the orphan error, but it isn't showing up. Can someone come fix these problems? 2003 LN6 (talk) 01:17, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Amanda and Cristobal are not one storm, per Amanda's TCR. Cristobal formed from its remnants and both were part of the same overlying gyre, but they are not the same storm.Gumballs678 talk 21:09, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

I agree, Amanda/Cristobal is quite special, but I think it is one storm that changed basins and fragmented at the same time. 2003 LN6 (talk) 00:15, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Yeah. Only storms like Otto 2016, Hermine/Eleven-E 2010, Omeka 2010, Ului 2010 should be put in the same column. ~ARay10 :) 03:48, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

And no tropical cyclone year article is an orphan, lots of pages link to them. 🐔 Chicdat  ^{Bawk to me!} 11:33, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Thanks! 2003 LN6 (talk) 19:05, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Hurricane Paulette

On the 2020 Atlantic hurricane season site it says that Hurricane Paulette lasted 18 days and is the second-longest lived storm in 2020. But, on Tropical cyclones in 2020 page it says that Severe Tropical Storm Bongoyo lasted 17 days and IS the longest-lived storm. Can someone discuss this issue and fix this problem?

It was formed on 7 September and dissipated as a 23 September remnant low Dam222 🌋 (talk) 19:15, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Bongoyo lasted from 24 November to 11 December and Paulette lasted from 7 to 23 December thus Bongoyo lasted for 18 days and Paulette lasted for 17 days. Dam222 🌋 (talk) 19:45, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Bongoyo

Hi, I'm pretty sure there's something wrong about Bongoyo both in this article and SWIO article. In the website of MFR, it states it lasted from December 4 to December 12. So, can you check for the official information double-checking and change the articles? Thanks, Luke Kern Choi 5 (talk) 01:19, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Oh, I see that it was 01U. It was kinda confusing though... Like, Tropical Cyclones of 2020 article includes 01U time, but in can be confusing about it.Luke Kern Choi 5 (talk) 02:44, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

South Atlantic Ocean

The subtropical storm Mani did not reach Santa Catarina. In fact, it caused more damage in Espírito Santo, and also reached Bahia, Minas Gerais and Rio de Janeiro.

If you want, go to my page about the storm on Wikipedia Brazil. 138.219.185.154 (talk) 00:03, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

I wrote this message. Just click on my name. André L P Souza (talk) 00:07, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Goni is now the most strongest storm in 2020

Goni is now the most intense in 2020 because Yasa lowered by FMS. Daniel boxs (talk) 23:42, 9 December 2021 (UTC)