Talk:Tim Berners-Lee/Archive 1

Archive 1

Gutenberg

Yet their unique combination into a simple and cohesive concept deservedly rewarded the genius of Tim Berners-Lee with the credit for the greatest human breakthrough since Gutenberg

Oh, please. Thats way over the top GWO

Well, in one sense the comparison seems quite apt. Gutenberg took existing technology, improved it, and introduced the first 'mass-market' application. Ditto Berners-Lee. Matthew Woodcraft

Yet he did it so poorly. Why SGML? Why not have customizable tags from the ground up (instead of allowing W3C to staple it to the mangy dog's forehead with the mincy marketing driven name XML)?

-AnonymousCoward (62.49.130.172)

Why not wait until he had the perfect technical solution? The idea he came up with did rather catch on, what were the practical alternatives? Microsoft Blackbird?

I think the question to be addressed first is if HTML is 'the greatest human breakthrough since Gutenberg' (sic). N.B. Gutenberg was not a breakthrough, unless his parents did something innovative to conceive him. The comparison should be between the movable-type press and HTML. Some other innovations that might be considered instead of HTML: 'the light bulb; penicillin; the telephone; powered flight. Also note that Gutenberg was about 400 years late: Around 1040, the first known movable type system was created in China by Bi Sheng out of porcelain. Metal movable type was first invented in Korea during the Goryeo Dynasty (around 1230). Neither movable type system was widely used, one reason being the enormous Chinese character set. see Movable Type
-Steven Mair 66.75.52.201 07:32, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Citation Needed?

From the intro:

However, the general ideas for the Internet were outlined, also the technological aspect, earlier than Berner-Lee's technological proposal.

Where's the citation for this? Should a note be added to add a citation or should this sentence be removed? I make no claims against the legitimacy of the statement, but it reads as if someone added it without much thought. 68.62.251.202 (talk) 00:10, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Enquire Within

Enquire Within Upon Everything, the book Berners-Lee named his prototype after, is currently doing the rounds on Distributed Proofreaders. Should I put in a link once it becomes available? -- Jim Regan 14:32, 20 Sep 2003 (UTC)

The relevant quote is here:

"When I first began tinkering with a software program that eventually gave rise to the idea of the World Wide Web, I named it Enquire, short for Enquire Within upon Everything, a musty old book of Victorian advice I noticed as a child in my parents' house outside London. With its title suggestive of magic, the book served as a portal to a world of information, everything from how to remove clothing stains to tips on investing money. Not a perfect analogy for the Web, but a primitive starting point."

-- Jim Regan 20:53, 24 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Writers

Does anybody's who's written a book get to be listed in Category:Writers? I'm pretty dubious about the appropriateness of including Mr. Berners-Lee in said category - not least because I'm trying to clear everybody out into genre sub-categories, and can't figure out what sub-category he would possibly belong to. john k 05:08, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Not everyone who writes, writes books. But what about category:autobiographers?Andy Mabbett 08:13, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Al Gore invented the www?

This seems to be a bit much. I don't claim to be an expert on Al Gore, but I know he advocated strengthening the "internet superhighway" and such, but invented? Doubtful. This is related to the belief, joking or otherwise that Al Gore CLAIMED to have invented the internet. Does anyone have more information on Al Gore's true role here? 66.95.139.107 12:54, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Yep, right here. Good old Snopes. Mr. Billion 07:34, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Furthermore, the Internet and the World Wide Web are two different things. Related, but different. RealGrouchy 16:22, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

The Al Gore statement under "See Also" seems entirely irrelvent to the article. Perhaps it deserves a mention under Internet, but not under the biographical article of a, for the most part, unrelated person. -- Exitmoose 06:39, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Broken Link

The link to CERN seems to be broken. Gerry Lynch 16:44, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Huh?

It was also at Oxford where he was caught with a friend and was banned from using the university computer soon after.

So exactly why was he banned from using the university computer? Because he was caught with a friend? Is being with friends against the rules? Was he doing something wrong to the computers with his friend? The reader is left in the dark here. [[User:Livajo|力伟|☺]] 22:44, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

..yeah, I also think this should be explained further 'cause it sounds like "Timmy" is not straight :)

(FWIW: I and another undergrad pysicist were using the Oxford Nuclear Physics's Lab's interactive DEC-10 system line printer, which was off limits to undergraduates. We were using it to print information for the Rag Week committee. Rag Week is a student-run charity event - a worthy cause, one might have thought. The system's manager, Joyce Clarke(e?) did not think so. It was not the main University computer. TimBL 16:47, 9 October 2007 (UTC) User:Timbl)

Boston link

The Boston link could do with updating to point to the appropriate Boston article, but I'm not sure which it is. --John 23:16, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Removing Spinning the Semantic Web

Spinning the Semantic Web isn't a work of Tim Beners-Lee. He only contributed the foreword which normally doesn't make you an author or editor of the work, or, indeed, really a significant contributer (especially for a technical work like this). It's more like an endorsement. If there needs to be another work, I would suggest the Scientific American article on the Semantic Web. He's acutally a co-author and it's one of the more widely cited articles around. If no one objects, I'll make these changes. Bparsia 03:59, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Huh? 2

Re: CSS It was not until 2000 and 2001 that popular browsers began to support this standard, which shows Berners-Lee's first goal to maintain the freedom of the Web.

I don't get it... what shows that his first goal is to maintain the freedom of the web? David Bergan 17:35, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Conflation of the Internet and the Web

... has added a paragraph to the summary at the top of the page that has nothing to do with Tim Berners-Lee but explains the differences with the WWW and the Internet. Obviously this shouldn't be there, but rather than reverse the edit I thought I'd leave it to a more experienced Wikipedian to decide whether this information is totally irrelevant, or should be edited and moved to a different part of the page. NumberJunkie 18:16, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

The sentence "However, the general ideas for the Internet were outlined, also the technological aspect, earlier than Berner-Lee's technological proposal." ...in the first paragraph is unnecessary, since the preceding sentence established that the first communication between HTTP server and client took place over Internet protocols. But, more importantly, this sentence speaks from a viewpoint that conflates the www and the Internet, thus only serving to further muddy the distinction between the two. I have held off on deleting it without discussion first, but it really ought to go. rowley (talk) 16:20, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I removed it. Nightscream (talk) 22:25, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism?

"He is an alumnus of Queen's College (where he played tiddly-winks for Oxford, against rivals Cambridge), Oxford University (which has dedicated a computer room in his honour)" -- Fact or vandalism? This is just goofy enough to be true. -- 201.78.233.162 22:54, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

I am wondering about that too. At first, I thought maybe tiddlywinks means something different in UK English than it does in American English. If it doesn't, then I would say that this would make a very odd collegiate 'sport'. Wandering Star 00:29, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Tiddlywinks means the same in British English as it does in America. I agree, it does sound an implausible way to express inter-college rivalry; however, from Tiddlywinks: "The modern game of tiddlywinks was introduced in 1955 by Bill Steen and Rick Martin. These two Cambridge students wanted to play a game at which they could represent the university in a Varsity Match against Oxford." Not just confined to the UK either: see Harvard Tiddlywinks Society

It may well be true. I know that in 1975 there was an Oxford University Tiddlywinks Society because I nearly joined it. 86.53.56.64 13:00, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

It is entirely probable, I will ask him when I meet him next week. There is a strategy version of Tiddly Winks similar in concept to billiards or croquet. 66.31.39.76 18:49, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

It is in fact true, but noit very significant. I joined teh Oxford team just for just that one trip to Cambridge, as I wanted a method to get to Cambridge to visit my old friend Nichols Barton (now FRS). So my life was not one of tiddleywinks, I would clasify this as trivia, but it is not for me to edit my own page :) TimBL 17:23, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

An emacs user?

I'm trying to populate the Category:Emacs users. Tim seems like the type that is likely to be an Emacs user, and he uses it as an example when talking about text editors, but I can't find a clear "I use emacs" statement. If anyone can find such a statement, or if anyone knows that he is an Emacs user, please add the category tag to this article. Thanks. Gronky 23:26, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't think I have ever seen Tim use emacs in the past ten years or so. He is much more of a NextStep/Mac type of person. --66.31.39.76 18:52, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Python user

In case someone wants to create Category:Python users:

Tim became a Python enthusiast when he tried to learn Python on a plane trip. He had already downloaded Python and its documentation on his laptop, and between takeoff and landing he was able to install Python and learn enough to do something with it, "all on one battery." found in http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/5854 and in http://www.thinkware.se/cgi-bin/thinki.cgi/PythonQuotes —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.36.29.71 (talk) 14:43, 2 April 2007 (UTC).

Cailliau?

It seems that Mr. Berners-Lee has recieved the lion's share of the "priority" claim for www, but what of Mr. Cailliau? It appears from the Cailliau article that they each wrote a proposal in the same year, and a joint proposal was issued in the following year, yet the Berners-Lee article appears to offer only a glancing thought for Mr. Cailliau. I doubt that either of the principals would care, but it is hard to know what to make of the distribution of the attribution. Were a Nobel to be awarded -- purely hypothetical to frame the question -- would each receive it, or Mr. Berners-Lee only? Final thought: they shared the ACM prize for that year...it would be interesting to have their joint supervisor weigh in...

I agree, there is a serious bias here. I'm tagging NPOV. --Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 18:25, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Given another suggestion earlier that yet another party was involved, I think that a "factual accuracy is disputed" tag should supplement or replace the neutral one in the article. Comments? 85.92.173.186 15:15, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

The "supervisor" is the late Mike Sendall; it would be difficult to get a statement from him. What can be verified is that the first proposal for what became the Web has sole authorship from Tim and was submitted for consideration within CERN in March of 1989. The revised proposal, in which Robert may have had some participation but made no technical changes, was resubmitted in May 1990. Given that the description and assignment of credit regarding the history of the Web was authored by Robert originally , and brought to another server after CERN decommissioned the original info.cern.ch, I think there's probably some credence to the assertion that Tim was the inventor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.18.202.31 (talk) 23:44, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Millenium Prize Winner Infobox

Isn't this a bit much? Neither nobel laureates nor presidents nor prime ministers have such a box. Shouldn't this be moved to the bottom of the page, as with every other title that changes hands? -- Exitmoose 06:35, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

no longer at ECS southampton?

Hi I think TBL is no longer at Southampton University.

He is not listed on the ECS staff page, and this paper credits him at MIT

http://eprints.ecs.soton.ac.uk/13347/

If this is the case this page will need to be updated.

Ckeene 14:46, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree. It looks like he may have moved back to MIT. --Coolcaesar 05:51, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Do you folks check the basic places, like asking the person in question, or checking their home page? I have my main job at MIT and a part-time job at Southampton. I never moved to the UK, or moved back. I vist several times a year. TimBL 17:05, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Link from httpd to NCSA-httpd is confusing.

I think the link from httpd to NCSA-httpd is confusing. The httpd from Tim is (quite) different from NCSA-httpd and NCSA-httpd was not made by Tim.

Jringoot 12:17, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Avid Kickball Fan

Is it true that Berners-Lee thinks kickball is America's Most Beloved Sport? I keep seeing that. Please update his page to talk about his love of sports, especially kickball. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.32.81.40 (talk) 09:07, 31 March 2007 (UTC).

No, I am not a fan of any particular sport. Certainly not of Man United soccer (as reported on this page for a long time) or tiddleywinks (a single day's activity often blown out of proportion) And certainly not "kickball". TimBL (talk) 02:11, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Date of birth (DOB) - can't find any mention of it

Ummm so where/why isn't it included? Strawberry Island 16:24, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

See [1]. --Frodet 19:10, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

From which: "When in doubt about the notability of the person in question [...] err on the side of caution" who on Earth could have any doubt about the notability of TBL while at the same time using the web?!? Andy Mabbett 19:21, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

He also publishes it - 8 June 1955 - on his own web page. Andy Mabbett 19:23, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Minor point

The article mentions his "first wife Jane". That implies he has remarried, but there's no mention of it anywhere. Clarityfiend 03:33, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

The narrative doesn't specifically say 'his second wife' but it is implicit in the later sentence that says 'his wife Nancy' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.157.218.160 (talk) 21:17, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Weird Sentence

Does this make sense?

"becoming one of only 24 living members entitled to hold the award and use 'OM' after their name at any one time."

I think I would just take out the 'at any one time', but I could be missing something big here. It looks like it got edited without reading the whole sentence again.

Thanks.

The Order_of_Merit page states that there are only 24 people with the Order of Merit at any one time, (plus a limited number of honorary members.. so not limited to 24 really). I agree that the sentence does require better punctuation or editing. I would suggest removing " at any one time" alexx (talk) 14:58, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Royalties/Patents

When he worked at CERN second time around he was presumably an employee of the organisation. If his fellowship started in 1984 then it expired initially in 1986, and could perhaps have been extended (unusual, but not unheard of). What his employment status was after his fellowship is unclear. The terms of employment are very clear. Intellectual property created at CERN by its employees belongs to CERN, and the organisation is bound under the terms of the treaty to make it freely available to academics all over the world. There was no question of TBL (or even CERN) patenting or otherwise restricting free use of the web/http. But I keep seeing it used as evidence of TBL's holiness, which I'm sure he finds amusing and baffling. Max sang 16:55, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I joined CERN as a Fellow for 2 years. May have had it extended for a year, (I forget) but then became a staff member. So certainly, yes, CERN would have had some claim at least over any IPR -- I don't know how much. However I did ask them to put the technology into the Public Domain. (At first I thought of Copyleft of some kind, but several potential users objected). Robert Cailliau also put a lot of energy into chasing up the CERN directors and eventually on we got a signed and stamped document back announcing that CERN would not be charging royalties for the technology. I could possibly have pursued a deal with CERN and a spin-off company -- but I really don't think that the WWW would have taken off, as no one would have touched it, and many would have forked it into incompatible systems. See "Weaving the Web", 1999. TimBL (talk) 02:18, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

That document has unmeasurable significance for humanity. Have you thought about donating it to a museum or library? Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 14:32, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Criticising Domain Extensions

This whole section is too big, and biased. It has been put in, I suspect, in order to form part of some past or future argument in some discussions over top level domain names. These discussions are of course loaded with huge commercial motivations and so WP should IMHO be very careful about letting stuff like this get in. If it isn't removed I'll have to try to add some balance, to reflect my views more accurately, but removal makes more sense. I'd prefer to leave it for someone else to do. The quotes sound like transcribed oral quotes .. if some one dug them out and they are real then why no pointers to the source? Maybe the whole lot was pasted from some document elsewhere. TimBL (talk) 02:26, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Gone. For now. Contravened so many Wikipedia content policies it was absurd. CIreland (talk) 08:57, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Article title

Per Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(names_and_titles)#British_peerage, I have moved the article back to "Tim Berners-Lee" from "Sir Tim Berners-Lee". There is no need for the "sir" in the article title, and it is contrary to Wikipedia style to include it there. Ground Zero | t 17:25, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Isn't his name "Tim Berners-Lee" with a hyphen? --MarsRover (talk) 05:30, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

The Telegraph's list of 100 greatest living geniuses

If you look at The Telegraph's list of top 100 living geniuses, you'll see that the methodology used to select the geniuses was to email 4,000 Britons asking them for their opinions.

The top of the article states that Britain has more geniuses than any other country: "proportionately more than any other country."

Basically what I'm getting at is that this article, Telegraph's Top 100 living geniuses, is a complete joke.

However, it remains in the top paragraph of the Tim Berners-Lee article, even though other, more important recognitions are listed in the "recognitions" section.

There is something wrong with this. I believe that the Telegraph is putting references to itself in the top paragraph of articles.

We should try to keep the tim berners-lee page as legitimate and serious as possible, not like some patch job of "cool links" that we found and keep putting back up because we are offended that someone has removed it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rothkowitz (talk • contribs) 00:37, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Don't forget Southampton!!

Sir Timothy John "Tim" Berners-Lee, OM, KBE, FRS, FREng, FRSA (born 8 June 1955[1], also known as "TBL"), is a British engineer and computer scientist and MIT professor

TBL has a joint appointment at MIT in the US and the University of Southampton in the UK. Southampton is included further down in the Career section but missing in the introductory sentence above. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.107.124.82 (talk) 15:37, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Date of Birth Wrong?

I believe he is 56, not 55. Where was this DOB taken from? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.151.246.250 (talk) 16:39, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

Nomination for the Nobel Peace prize

I just happened to see that Tim Berners-Lee is nomitated this year (2006), for the Nobel Peace prize. And this makes me wonder why on earth someone thinks the Nobel commity will pick him. For sure he has made communication worldwide easier, but how well related is this to peace work?

And maybe this nomination should at least be mentioned here in the Tim Berners-Lee wiki. What do you think?

Absolutely true on what basis is he nominated the for the nobel peace prize? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.84.81.118 (talk) 10:37, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Tim Berners-Lee

I have read in the "Elements of Unitarianism" (one of the Element books series) that Tim Berners-Lee is a Unitarian; I have added this entry to the category "English Unitarians" accordingly. Many apologies, I slipped up a little, and his name also appears at the head of that category - sorry about that! ACEOREVIVED (talk) 20:09, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Tim Berners-Lee, Additional Points For Recognition Section

2001 Elected a Fellow of the Royal Academy of Engineering (the UK's national academy of Engineering) 2001 Awarded the Sir Frank Whittle Medal by the Royal Academy of Engineering for the creation of the internet as an outstanding contribution to the well-being of the nation.

The source of the above additions may be found on the web site of the Royal Academy of Engineering at www.raeng.org.uk Dumasathos (talk) 11:18, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Computer Lib / Dream Machines

Where is a ref to this book? — Xiong (talk) 03:13, 2005 Mar 24 (UTC)

Most distinguished person

Reading about Tim Berners-Lee, I noticed he has one of the most impressive list of honors I've ever seen. I tried to google the 'worlds most distinguihed person', but I could'nt find anything conclusive. But as a starting point, let's start with Tim Berners-Lee, and see if anyone could think of someone that tops him.

Invent the Internet

He says here that he didn't invent the internet?Smallman12q (talk) 15:06, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

jep, he invented the World Wide Web, the internet contains different parts: protocol(s), dns, markup lanugae and so on! mabdul 19:35, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Why the Padlock?

I don't see how Sir Tim would have any haters (that use the Internet, anyway) and since I didn't find a discussion post about the padlock, I thought I'd start the topic. Why the padlock? Why can't we open up this article? Was there an issue with excessive vandalism before? 64.134.164.23 (talk) 02:02, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Just checked last 500 page history edits going back to 3 Jan 2009, previous to the instigation of proction at 22:05, 5 October 2009 by Nightscream, there were 82 reverts, 61 of these were IP edits. Since then, a seach did not find one mention of the word "revert". None of that's official, just a quick reality check using a text editor, for anyone who's interested. If semiprotection continues to run, and more articles may be added, maybe that'd work, as I don't see that its been tried, I may be wrong. Trev M  ~  20:39, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

And thats the reason why I'm against the flagged revision! semi protection is already enough ;) but that is another topic... mabdul 21:00, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

You realised I meant flagged rev., which I don't particularly like in its present incarnation either! Trev M  ~  21:21, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Archive this?

Unless significant opposition, I'll set-up auto achiving here in a day or so, set to leave posts for about 6 months, and a minimum of 10 threads on page. There is a template to mark any that shouldn't be archived, if need be. Trev M  ~  21:16, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

agreed! mabdul 10:46, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Done, should archive next time bot runs, and then next time it is possible to archive at least 5 posts sections older than 6 months, leaving 10 sections on the page. Trev M  ~  13:02, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Sad that the Telegraph owns this page.

in the future, wikipedia is going to be one large advertisement for companies who will link every article with a page to their website via a "top 100" article.

Hey guys! Tim Berners-Lee's highest achievement was making the Telegraph top 100 genius list which was compiled by asking a bunch of people on the street!

this page could have been a spartan homage to a genius. but it's spam now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.254.102.48 (talk) 06:19, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Publications

Berners-Lee made really many scientific publication. Should we collect them (all) or which should be add to the article? How about this one?

• Shadbolt, Nigel; Berners-Lee, Tim; Hall, Wendy (2006). "The Semantic Web Revisited" (PDF). IEEE Intelligent Systems. Retrieved 8 December 2010. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)

mabdul 17:05, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Past Tense? is it over?

"Berners-Lee is the director of the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), which oversaw the Web's continued development."

One cannot oversaw[past tense] development that is still continued. It reads much like an anti-standards overtone from its original author. --Asmoore82 (talk) 20:24, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Clarity

I realize this individual didn't create the internet, however I believe most people are confused when they read that he created the WWW without the distinction that it is different than the internet. JVDnh3 (talk) 01:52, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Quote by Tim Berners-Lee

I think this should be incorporated.

“Making the Web was really simple because there was already this morass of things being developed on the Internet,” including protocols such as TCP/IP and other standards. “All I had to do on top of that to create the Web was to create a single global space, which some people said was rather arrogant…. HTTP was a new scheme for the Web… and the idea was that it would minimally constraining.”

http://www.eioba.com/a/x4/tim-berners-lee-weaving-a-semantic-web —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.118.101.238 (talk) 02:40, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Please check this article it is wrong in parts.

Found this source: http://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/FAQ.html#browser — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.164.163.188 (talk) 02:58, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Sry, I was editing this page extensively and I have a big knowledge about the beginning of the web. What is exactly wrong on this page? The link you gave is about a FAQ (section First web browsers) - in this article there is nearly no information about web browsers. mabdul 07:31, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

tim bernes lee does not want annyone to know about his personal life thats understanding but i think he should let us ask him questions — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.213.217.58 (talk) 08:51, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

xkcd

The subject of this page has just been referenced by today's xkcd: http://xkcd.com/949/ Beware the forthcoming insane barrage of traffic and editing on this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.229.101.166 (talk) 04:05, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Photo

I do not think that the current main photo of the subject is appropriate. Not only is it so zoomed in that it cuts off parts of his face, his hand is also covering his lower face. Additionally, it is side-on. SaintDaveUK (talk) 22:37, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

That's fine. You're welcome to change it. The photo it replaced looked like a roadie hanging out at a carnival. -SusanLesch (talk) 23:02, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Need to use more precise and unambiguous language.

For example the start of the article states " inventor of the World Wide Web." while this term is technically correct, it can be misinterpreted that the mean he invented the what is colloquially called the "Internet" when in actually he introduced the standard and concepts of linking hypertext language and translation to the TCP/IP protocol which at the time the internet was switching over to. In general no one person or group could be pointed to as the "inventor" of the internet just as no one person can be credited with inventing art or science. All the technological and philosophical concepts have have gone into this endever have made it what it is, not the work of one person or concept. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.13.147.186 (talk • contribs) 00:00, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

That's why we say "inventor of the World Wide Web" not "inventor of the internet". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:10, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Role at CERN

The article currently says "While being an independent contractor at CERN from June to December 1980…". What was his role there? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:58, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Current work

Please change the last paragraph from:

"In a Times article in October 2009, Berners-Lee admitted that the forward slashes ("//") in a web address were actually "unnecessary". He told the newspaper that he could easily have designed URLs not to have the forward slashes."

to:

"In a Times article in October 2009, Berners-Lee admitted that the initial pair of slashes ("//") in a web address were actually "unnecessary." He told the newspaper that he could easily have designed URLs without the initial slashes."

Regarding the redundant use of the word "forward", the Wikipedia article on slash explains the history of this common mistake. Even the BBC has deprecated use of the term (see www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/futuremedia/desed/urls.shtml).

The proposed change also recognizes this fact: Mr Berners-Lee never implied that the path portion of a URL didn't need slashes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.41.140.2 (talk) 22:37, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

•  Done. Thank you for the correction. -SusanLesch (talk) 23:21, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks also to Bhny for taking care. -SusanLesch (talk)

2012 Olympic Opening Ceremony Appearance

The article seems to underplay Tim Berners-Lee's role in the Olympic opening ceremony, and doesn't mention that he appeared, centre stage, along with a NeXT Cube system (unclear if this is the actual original first-ever WWW server, which has previously been exhibited at CERN). Maybe someone could expand this section? 86.7.23.104 (talk) 07:57, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Might also be worth mentioning NBC's coverage which featured the presenters Matt Lauer, Bob Costas and Meredith Viera not having a clue who he was - one guilelessly suggesting "Google him!" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.30.80.127 (talk) 06:25, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Olympis reference update

In the last sentence of the first paragraph: He tweeted: "This is for everyone",[12] instantly spelled out in LCD lights held by 70,500 people in the audience.[13]

The LCD lights were not help by the audience, they were mounted between the audience members. If you want to update and reference an article about it, this article talks about the ceremonies and shows a picture of how the lights were set up.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2180017/Opening-Ceremony-London-2012-Spectators-handed-3D-glasses-LED-wands.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by NeonSlide (talk • contribs) 21:36, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Fixed by Just nigel (talk · contribs), thank you. You can use {{edit protected}} to get an editor's attention more quickly, though in a few days of editing you will be able to fix things yourself. - 2/0 (cont.) 12:23, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

NeXT

In the opening section, please add a hyperlink from the phrase "NeXT Computer" to http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/NeXT_Computer.

MarcMFresko (talk) 14:27, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Done. Favonian (talk) 17:05, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

December 25, 1990

(This is me TimBL, commenting in the first person on my page, which is quite reasonable AFAICS)

The first paragraph of this page currently is inaccurate. I don't know where this myth came from originally but it gets passed around from story to story, that HTTP first worked for the first time on Dec 25 1990. This currently reads "[...] on 25 December 1990, with the help of Robert Cailliau and a young student at the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN), he implemented the first successful communication between a Hypertext Transfer Protocol (HTTP) client and server via the Internet.[4]"

• I had been developing the code for the last few months, since mid september
• I had it more or less working mid november
• CERN was closed for several days over the Christmas/new year break
• I made sure I had a version working I could give to people by the break.
• I gave a version number to that of the software 901225 to be whimsical
• I didn't work on the software over the break at all
• The date the first HTTP transfer happened is lost, only I would know it and I don't.
• Neither Robert Cailliau nor Nicola Pellow were involved in writing the

first browser/editor (WorldWideWeb.app) or the first server (httpd) at all, in any way. Nicola joined the project later, and worked on the Line Mode browser, and Robert didn't code anything except much later some Mac browser code ("Samba").

I know having a date one which something first happens makes a good story but you just have to let it go when there is no such date known.

I know Wikipedia has reasonable strong policies about people providing input to their own page, and I wouldn't dream of trying to edit mine directly. That said, you must also respect that it can be very difficult or impossible for someone to have to find secondary sources about their own life. When you are talking about something someone has done by themselves out of the glare of the press, then you have to give them a certain respect when it comes to what happened and what did not happen.

Read "Weaving the Web", my only book so far, which should go over this time in detail.

TimBL (talk) 18:19, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for this Tim. I knew that this was your Wikipedia username beforehand for whatever reason. I have deleted the offending sentence(s). If there are any other inaccuracies just let someone/me know. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be to have inaccurate information about oneself up on Wikipedia, and I understand completely your reluctance to edit the page yourself. Happy New Year. Farrtj (talk) 02:20, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Recognition

Sir Tim Berners-Lee was awarded a honorary doctorate at our university's graduation yesterday (University of the Arts London (19th July 2012)) - where he gave a spectacular speech. Please add this to the recognition section.

Invinted the WWW? never heard of him. I thought that Al Gore invented the internet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.139.67.17 (talk) 14:25, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 22 January 2013

Please make at least a reference to Robert Cailliau http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Robert_Cailliau who basically co-invented the net with him ... 139.191.147.133 (talk) 10:16, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Not done: please make your request in a "change X to Y" format. Vacation9 12:45, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

What is this 'net' that someone co-invented with someone? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.122.44.47 (talk) 18:23, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Citation needed

'also known as "TimBL,"' needs a citation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.122.44.47 (talk) 18:17, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation request: Timothy B. Lee

I've been seeing Timothy B. Lee's (from Ars Technica) name popping up more frequently, and keep thinking "oh man, Tim Berners-Lee is doing what now!?", but I am always disappointed. I dunno if the non-knighted Tim B Lee needs his own wikipedia page, but maybe at least a nod in his direction? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ambiguator (talk • contribs) 20:21, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

School

The article states: ' ... went on to attend south west London's independent Emanuel School from 1969 to 1973'. At that time, Emanuel School, London was not independent and none of the pupils paid a penny in fees. (It was a voluntary aided school). There's a tendency among journalists to assume that a school has always been what it now. Norvo (talk) 23:29, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Wikilink to NeXT Computer is appropriate

In this article;

"... the world's first-ever web site and web server, running on a NeXT computer at CERN. The first web page address was...",

the words 'NeXT Computer' should have a wikilink: the NeXT Computer wikipedia article contains a picture of the NeXT Computer which Sir Tim used at CERN. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.53.57.210 (talk) 01:12, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Robert Cailliau

The first paragraph of this article suggests that Berners-Lee invented the World Wide Web by himself; however, Robert Cailliau equally contributed to the development of the World WIde Web. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Combating Ignorance (talk • contribs) 09:06, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

English?

Without doubt if this fella had been born one inch into one of the other home nations he'd have their nationality splashed all over the place rather than 'British', which is there now. Not that it should be changed, I'm just saying. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.66.137 (talk) 17:36, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

The fact that he relinquished the rights to the World Wide Web is significant

Whereas he could have patented it or whatever and made around a bazillion pounds, he gave it to the world for free in order to advance mankind without hinderance I'm guessing. The article mentions 'This is for everyone', but this is important I think and should go in the main description. Here's a suggestion as to how it could be phrased concisely - "Sir Tim Berners Lee is a bloody god. Worship him you worthless termites." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zedell (talk • contribs) 21:32, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

DRM

His stance of DRM inclusion into W3C standard should be mentioned in the main article. 84.112.136.52 (talk) 18:52, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Agreed (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-admin/2013Sep/0129.html). One wonders why these facts are absent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.51.156.190 (talk) 19:38, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

I agree as well, this is an important issue which is evolving quickly, especially since the MPAA has been announced to be part of the W3C and it appears Berners-Lee stance on DRM is in line with the MPAA's stance.

Analysis of Tim Berners-Lee's statements regarding DRM http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/open-enterprise/2013/10/tim-berners-lee-on-why-html5-needs-drm/index.htm

Response by Tim Berners-Lee to the barrage of questions and concerns from users http://www.w3.org/blog/2013/10/on-encrypted-video-and-the-open-web/

MPAA Announcement http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140107/11263425789/not-cool-mpaa-joins-w3c.shtml — Preceding unsigned comment added by Emodulor (talk • contribs) 22:07, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Inconsistency

From Wikipedia's article on Alexander Fleming: "Sir Alexander Fleming, FRSE, FRS, FRCS(Eng) (6 August 1881 – 11 March 1955) was a Scottish biologist..." "Nationality Scottish".

From Wikipedia's article on Anthony Hopkins: "Sir Philip Anthony Hopkins, CBE (born 31 December 1937) is a Welsh actor of film, stage, and television, and a composer."  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.12.212.156 (talk) 00:35, 22 January 2014 (UTC) 

Name pronunciation

How about a pronunciation for his name, especially "Berners"? Is the French or the anglicized pronunciation preferred? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.225.17.141 (talk) 18:09, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Honor

Tim Berners-Lee was recently awarded an honorary Doctor of Engineering and Technology from Yale University on May 19, 2014. Can someone with permission please add this to his Wikipedia page? http://news.yale.edu/2014/05/19/yale-awards-12-honorary-degrees-2014-graduation — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:C410:C500:AD71:9FCC:E291:4A59 (talk) 01:43, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Current work

How current is it? Another headline would be better. 78.35.217.225 (talk) 19:33, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 June 2014

Please change British born into English born as he was born in London, England. Fleabite101 (talk) 20:48, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Born in London, England = born in London, Great Britain = British born = English born... — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 22:13, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Changing nationality English is fine with me. It is a common in biographies, and it is more precise than British. Bhny (talk) 23:01, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Edit request

Please change religion to "Unitarian Universalist" (currently: "Unitarian"). Unitarian Universalism is very different from classical Uniterianism, which is currently linked to. Source: http://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/UU.html

Done — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 13:21, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Awards

I've split the long list of Awards and honours presented to Tim Berners-Lee into a separate article; I'll do more work to prettify that tomorrow. Maybe one or two more should still be listed here? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:29, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

New NEWS today, for future editing

There needs to be a new SECTION that covers his activism to protect an open WWW and the Internet.

HEADLINE-1: Inventor of World Wide Web warns of threat to internet

• http://news.yahoo.com/inventor-world-wide-warns-threat-internet-224455080.html;_ylt=AwrTWf2ygCdUCj8AYlfQtDMD

QUOTE: "London (AFP) - The British inventor of the World Wide Web warned on Saturday that the freedom of the internet is under threat by governments and corporations interested in controlling the web.

Tim Berners-Lee, a computer scientist who invented the web 25 years ago, called for a bill of rights that would guarantee the independence of the internet and ensure users' privacy.

"If a company can control your access to the internet, if they can control which websites they go to, then they have tremendous control over your life," Berners-Lee said at the London "Web We Want" festival on the future of the internet.

"If a Government can block you going to, for example, the opposition's political pages, then they can give you a blinkered view of reality to keep themselves in power." " -- Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 11:48, 28 September 2014 (UTC) -- PS: FYI for future editing.

Headline-2: Berners-Lee: 'Computers are getting smarter. We’re not'

• http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/internet/11148220/Berners-Lee-Computers-are-getting-smarter.-Were-not.html

QUOTE: "Web inventor Sir Tim Berners-Lee on the future of farming, work and computing" -- Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 15:42, 9 October 2014 (UTC) -- PS: FYI for additional future editing.

Headline-3: Gamergate, Trolls, Cyberbullies Trouble Web Founder Tim Berners-Lee

• http://www.ibtimes.com/gamergate-trolls-cyberbullies-trouble-web-founder-tim-berners-lee-1712770

QUOTE: "Beners-Lee helped create the Web in 1990 when he was working for the European Organization for Nuclear Research, better known as CERN, in Switzerland. In a conversation with the BBC News on Friday the developer and scientist said he hoped “the Web would provide tools and fora and new ways of communicating that would break down national barriers and allow us to just get to a better global understanding.” But that optimism has struggled of late, with cyberbullying making headlines and the Gamergate movement ..." -- Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 14:58, 26 October 2014 (UTC) -- PS: FYI for additional future editing.

Semi-protected edit request on 1 February 2015

A couple of grammar mistakes:

In section Personal Life, please change "Berners-Lee married to Nancy, his wife, in 1990" to "Berners-Lee married Nancy, his wife, in 1990".

(an alternative would be "Berners-Lee got married to Nancy, his wife, in 1990").

In section Religious views, please change "to which adheres because he perceives it as a tolerant and liberal in belief" to "to which he adheres because he perceives it as tolerant and liberal in belief"

Roberthgc (talk) 16:32, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Done thanks for spotting those Cannolis (talk) 16:46, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

1989 Invention document redistributed in 1990, unchanged.

The text of this article stated that Tim Berners-Lee revised his original proposal in 1990. Mr Berners-Lee states that he simply redistributed the March 1989 proposal in May 1990, unchanged:

A hand conversion to HTML of the original MacWord (or Word for Mac?) document written in March 1989 and later redistributed unchanged apart from the date added in May 1990. Provided for historical interest only. The diagrams are a bit dotty, but available in versioins linked below. The text has not been changed, even to correct errors such as misnumbered figures or unfinished references. - http://www.w3.org/History/1989/proposal.html

(Etheldavis (talk) 01:18, 24 February 2015 (UTC))

tmbl

FYI W3C's CSS Expressive Generalizations and Gadgetry draft published today proposes <speech-rate> as an extension to the existing spec for <voice-rate>. Their suggested unit is the 'Timble' (abbreviated as tmbl) being "the rate of speech of Sir Tim Berners-Lee when delivering a speech... 1tmbl is generally considered to be about the maximum rate a listener without special training can sustainably understand while paying close attention. Consider reducing the speed when the audience is distracted, tired, or comprises many non-native speakers. These factors are cumulative. For dictation or during meetings for which live minutes are taken, a rate of 0.3tmbl is more appropriate." - Pointillist (talk) 17:57, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 July 2015

Requesting removal of the reference to PowerBook in the picture titled "Berners-Lee using his PowerBook in 2003". The model of the laptop is irrelevant and it smells a lot like advertising. I propose the title "Berners-Lee using his Laptop in 2003". RichardReloaded (talk) 12:25, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

 Done although, I'm not sure a 13 year old photo is really product placement - Arjayay (talk) 13:47, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 August 2015

The "timbl on identi.ca" link in "External links" should be removed since identi.ca gives "No such 'user' with id 'timbl'". Never yet (talk) 09:41, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

Done. Favonian (talk) 10:35, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

degree classification

A physics degree would be a bachelor of science rather than bachelor of arts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.194.197.134 (talk) 20:45, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

TBL joins Oxford uni

This might be of interest to editors here: http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2016-10-27-sir-tim-berners-lee-joins-oxfords-department-computer-science

− Pintoch (talk) 09:23, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Family information

Need to add this: http://webfoundation.org/tim-berners-lee-married-rosemary-leith/

Is there any reason why there's no information about his family? Nancy Carlson is mentioned as his wife in a number of sources:

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/07/15/style/nancy-carlson-is-wed-to-timothy-berners-lee.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/nationaltreasures/2194133/Sir-Tim-Berners-Lee-portrait.html

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,137689,00.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/8528304/Internet-pioneer-Sir-Tim-Berners-Lee-casts-a-web-of-intrigue-with-his-love-life.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mandrake/5374352/Sir-Tim-Berners-Lee-takes-surprise-guest-to-the-Palace.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.65.2.64 (talk • contribs) 23:40, 20 August 2012

www foundation

Worth adding current info on the work of the foundation? They have a number of active campaigns like Web We Want that TBL campaigns for and could be mentioned here. --Jinnybrin (talk) 19:28, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

Proposal

"Berners-Lee wrote his proposal in March 1989 and, in 1990, redistributed it" I see no evidence of the redistribution on CERN's website. Where did that datum come from? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 179.53.216.61 (talk) 16:05, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

UUCP precursor

UUCP was a precursor ,was it not?

html for markup maybe a unique invention but

networking was done way before www. Juror1 (talk) 01:27, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

No one is claiming he invented networking --Mongreilf (talk) 11:14, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

During his years at Oxford,he built his first computer from a Motorola 6800 microprocessor and an old TV. https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Berners-Lee (french page) Benjystar (talk) 08:42, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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Involvement in Encrypted Media Extensions controversy

I'm surprised there's no reference to the EME controversy on his page. Many consider Berners-Lee's willingness to accept EME is a rejection of his earlier ideals. Defective By Design recently went so far as to award him the Obedience Award for deference to pro-DRM corporations. Boltronics (talk) 23:28, 2 May 2017 (UTC)Boltronics

References

---

Me too. It rather undoes everything he did, his entire reputation as the creator of the free and open world wide web.. :/ I wonder how much money he think his entire legacy was worth. They locked the page so that only reputable wikipedia registered users can edit this page.

• (Lunduke Hour) "W3C Embraces DRM - Declares War on Humanity"
• (BoingBoing) An open letter on DRM to the inventor of the web, from the inventor of net neutrality
• (EFF) Amid Unprecedented Controversy, W3C Greenlights DRM for the Web
• (sd times) DRM concerns arise as W3C’s Tim Berners-Lee approves the EME specification
• (info world) Berners-Lee and W3C approve HTML5 video DRM additions
• (UNESCO) The Assistant Director-General for Communication and Information -- public letter to Sir Berners Lee about EME
• (EU parliamentarian Julia Reda) Open Letter to the European Commission on Encrypted Media Extensions
• Open letter from Just Net Coalition to Sir Tim Berners-Lee seeking his urgent intervention to stop acceptance of Encrypted Media Extensions as a W3C standard
• Just google or duckduckgo "Tim Berners Lee EME w3c" and there is TONS more of this.

A lot of this is directed specifically at Tim Berners Lee.

2001:2002:51E3:8007:B66D:83FF:FE0E:C298 (talk) 16:16, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

" ... Berners-Lee's willingness to accept EME ... " - this is possibly because DRM has no connection to the WWW which is just a means of delivering the DRM-managed (or any other) content, hence what media suppliers choose to do with their data is really of no business to anyone but themselves and their intended end users.

It is also possible that TBL sees the introduction of DRM by media suppliers as a likely case of an 'own goal' by them that might well prove to be less-than-successful. It will in any case have the benefit of showing to the media suppliers how many, or rather just how few, are willing to pay for something they may have previously been getting for nothing via The Web, e.g., TV programmes, movies, pop music, etc., media that any impartial observer might say have suffered a precipitate drop in subjective quality over the past twenty years. In short, DRM-enabled media will have the benefit of showing just how many people are actually willing to pay good money for what in many cases is over-hyped c**p.

The Web has irreversibly changed the way many people find out about new TV shows, films, pop recordings, etc., and that has been the case for the past fifteen years or so. Media producers must be feeling very brave to stake their future incomes on messing about with what is in effect, a free, worldwide publicity route for their products that has been a part of society for that amount of time and which, whether they know it or not, their current marketing and business models rely-on. Either that or very greedy.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.173.52 (talk) 09:40, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Please read WP:NOTFORUM. — JFG ^talk 12:30, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Sir when did TBL become knighted to become a sir? Its simple really. Please add this

https://www.w3.org/2004/07/timbl_knighted I mean really!? Why did I have to search the web for this myself? Good faith and all that kk, but I just say it's elementary to add when TimBL became a knight, k thx bye Sirtimb (talk) 12:10, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

Is there a specific reason why you can't be bothered to do it yourself? GimliDotNet (talk) 12:11, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

It's in the Infobox (KBE) (or did one of you two get a round tuit?)Mike Spathaky (talk) 20:24, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 May 2018

• [https://datosatutiplen.wordpress.com/2018/05/07/information-management-a-proposal-de-tim-berners-lee/ Translation to spanish language of the document "Information Management: A Proposal". Carlos Menéndez adaptation: "Gestión de la información: Una propuesta". Carloswitt (talk) 16:21, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 17:19, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Rosemary Leith

For the record: yesterday I noticed that this article contained a little, but not much, about TimBL's current wife, who is an influential figure in the world of internet & finance. WHAAOE is not always true, and in fact I saw that someone had attempted an article on Rosemary Leith at some point, and it had been deleted. So I decided to be cautious and go down the draft-submission route, instead of just (re)creating her bio. I trimmed material from TimBL's "personal life" section, expanded it with press coverage about Rosemary Leith, and statements from the websites of the organisations she works with. When I submitted the draft, however, [was declined]. I was disappointed of course but not surprised. So I thought the best thing is to flesh out the TimBL article, which I have now done. Given that they work together on the WWW Foundation, ie their professional and personal lives are so intertwined, it seems useful to have an overview of her career. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 18:25, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 July 2018

In the personal life section, there is a spelling error: "Leith is a founding director of the World Wide Web Foundation, a non-profit Bernes-Lee launched." which should read "Leith is a founding director of the World Wide Web Foundation, a non-profit Berners-Lee launched." (Note the mis-spelling of Berners-Lee.) Recessio (talk) 20:20, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Done GimliDotNet (talk) 20:35, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Bachelor of Arts in Physics?

Does TimBL really have a first-class bachelor of arts degree in physics. The references don't back this up and, although I have found this repeated on one other website, I see no authoritative source. I have a bachelor of science degree in physics but in my 54 years as a graduate I have never heard of a BA physics. But I'm open-minded about it and would just like it verified and properly referenced. Mike Spathaky (talk) 20:47, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

The degree was awarded at Oxford, see Bachelor_of_Arts#United_Kingdom_and_Ireland.John a s (talk) 11:11, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

DRM views

The article presently states this:

"The World Wide Web Consortium decided that its standards should be based on royalty-free technology, so that they easily could be adopted by anyone"

However had, the w3c (edit: was a typo) also included DRM into a specification not long ago, which means that the sentence is no longer accurate past that point in my opinion.

Either the sentence should be reworded, e. g. stating that the consortium did so in the early days but not lateron; or the the article should mention the DRM-specific views. Tim also wrote something about it. It may not be an ideal fit into the main article about his life, since it is about the w3c, but then it would still require a change in the main article here, as-is, since it is mentioned.

https://www.defectivebydesign.org/blog/tim_bernerslee_approves_web_drm_w3c_member_organizations_have_two_weeks_appeal

I put any random link here, you can find lots of other material pertaining to this topic. In my opinion, wikipedia should of course stay as objective as possible - but the article is simply inaccurate when it claims that the consortium decided that its standards should be on royalte-free technology, but now with DRM this is not the case in that particular aspect. So the article should be reworded. 2A02:8388:1604:CA80:0:0:0:6 (talk) 00:59, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

It seems that you are mixing two distinct topics. DRM are technologies intended to prevent unauthorized copying of content. When W3C includes DRM in s specification, they are not talking about content, they are only making sure that any DRM tech patents are available royalty-free. There is no contradiction, and the relevant article text should be left as is. — JFG ^talk 05:22, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 April 2019

Please change http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/ber1int-1 to https://www.achievement.org/achiever/sir-timothy-berners-lee/#interview PippaDiggs (talk) 20:17, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

Please change

to PippaDiggs (talk) 20:36, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

References

 Done. @PippaDiggs: Thanks for finding the correct link. ~Anachronist (talk) 23:58, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

BLP Personal info check

Passing through pirate town ... erk goodie snoopy ... and a chorded keyboard I observe differences between the current bio of this article and This telegraph article I am minded there might be an omission with regards to an earlier marriage.Djm-leighpark (talk) 23:22, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 May 2019

Please delete these excessive and unnecessary commas in the sentence "In June 2009, then-British prime minister, Gordon Brown, announced that Berners-Lee would work with the UK government...". Thanks. 80.3.78.196 (talk) 18:16, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

Resolved. I made this edit. Anton.bersh (talk) 01:54, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

 Already done Izno (talk) 02:19, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Criticisms

I have some concerns the current and recent criticisms section wording is not supported by the sources and may even be being used to push an anti-DRM agenda. A statement of criticism is justified ... I'm not sure it is currently supported by my reading of the current sources. Thankyou. Djm-leighpark (talk) 20:40, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

I just saw this comment (I think it's partially adressed to me because I'm the last person who edited the section, even though it was a stylistic edit). Thanks for your comment, I will expand this section, add citations (from EFF and other organizations) and the other side of controversy (pro-EME, e.g. statement from Firefox on EME). Anton.bersh (talk) 01:54, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Update: I rewrote the section, however I'm not sure whether it is balanced because all sources I found online were critical of EME, I could not find a single article in support of EME (I left out articles by publications clearly biased against "big tech", e.g. by Techdirt). Anton.bersh (talk) 03:04, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

@Anton.bersh Following my concerns raised over your last edit you seem to have done albeit perhaps good faith further edits which appears to me to increase the prominence of the DRM/Encrypted Media Extensions issue with WP:UNDUE and making it even more about DRM than TimBL. On a non-WP:BLP article I would leave that in place while a discussion is raised; because of WP:BLP will revert the Criticisms section to 23 May 2019 which still may I believe have a problem. At this point I need to point out I cannot remember meeting TimBL however I do recall some roundabout connection which makes me reluctant to edit the article .. though pragmatically not connected to DRM. I think a discussion and consensus is now needed for this as it may be being used for a Digital rights management soapbox.Djm-leighpark (talk) 05:39, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

To re-iterate my concern here is WP:UNDUE and possibly an element of WP:SOAPBOX over the Encrypted Media Extensions issue and possible over-emphasis on TimBL's role and it possibly being given undue weight in the context of the article; one possible solution might be to remove the Criticisms section and put the content in the Policy section which would help avoid over excessive prominence. TimBL's role in this needs to be given correct weight including delegation of the decision to the W3C Advisory Committee in 2016. I personally find In 2017 Berners-Lee was criticized by prominent defenders of Internet freedom for approving Encrypted Media Extensions that standardizes Digital Rights Management technology, thus restricting digital freedom.[71][72] Critics include Free Software Foundation and Electronic Frontier Foundation. to be unbalanced use of sources. I don't have a current forma of words myself.Djm-leighpark (talk) 06:12, 29 May 2019 (UTC) After some thinking I believe removal of the criticisms section and preplacing with an entry such as the following in the Policy section would allow the matter to be recorded and giving approximate weight to TimBL's role using the existing two sources:

"In October 2016 in his position as chief arbiter of Web standards TimBL chose not exercise his power to again extend the development timeline for the controversial Encrypted Media Extensions (EME) proposals but instead to delegate the decision to the to the W3C's general decision-making body, the Advisory Committee. It was revealed in July 2017 as W3C's director TimBL had chosen to approve the EME specification leaving two weeks for opponents such as the Free Software Foundation and Electronic Frontier Foundation to campaign the W3C advisory commision to raise an appeal before the EME specification became ratified to a full W3C recommendation."

This can (especially given my prose incapabilities) probably be improved. It may slightly under-criticise TimBL but that is probably the correct side to be.Djm-leighpark (talk) 08:57, 29 May 2019 (UTC) I have a revised version I am more happy with; though I need to re-check which sources best support it and add them and re-tweak (I'll do that in situ). If there are no concerns raised I may at any time after that raise the edit request.

Request edit May 30

Change x to y using z

x Remove the current Criticisms section completely including the title: Criticism In 2017 Berners-Lee was criticized by prominent defenders of Internet freedom for approving Encrypted Media Extensions that standardizes Digital Rights Management technology, thus restricting digital freedom.[71][72] Critics include Free Software Foundation and Electronic Frontier Foundation. y Add to the Policy work section immediately above the paragraph On 30 September 2018, Berners-Lee announced...: In March 2017 Berners-Lee decided, after several years of remaining neutral on the Encrypted Media Extensions (EME) proposals with its controversial Digital Rights Management (DRM) implications, indicated he felt the situation required him to make a decision and that he had concluded he would back the EME proposals. The decision provoked a strong critical response particularly as his position as director of the W3C meant his rulings ultimately determined if a specification progressed to become a W3C recommendation. In July 2017 Berners-Lee chose to approve the developed EME specification; a decision that would by default lead to its ratification as a W3C recommendation in two weeks. Joining others in criticism of the decision and its implications the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFE) raised an appeal, the first in the W3C's history. W3C members went on to vote and ratify the EFE recommendation in September 2017. z References

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Djm-leighpark (talk • contribs) 22:16, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Reply 30-MAY-2019

  Unable to review  

• Your edit request could not be reviewed because it is unclear which references are connected to which claim statements in the text of your proposal. When proposing edit requests it is important to highlight in the text, through the use of ref tags, which specific sources are doing the referencing for each claim. The point of these inline ref tags is to allow the reviewer and readers to check that the material is sourced; that point will be lost if the ref tags are not clearly placed. Note the examples below:

Examples

INCORRECT The Sun's diameter is 864,337 miles, while the Moon's diameter is 2,159 miles. The Sun's temperature is 5,778 degrees Kelvin. [1][2][3] References       1. Sjöblad, Tristan. The Sun. Academic Press, 2018, p. 1.       2. Harinath, Paramjit. "Size of the Moon", Science, 51(78):46.       3. Uemura, Shū. The Sun's Heat. Academic Press, 2018, p. 2. In the first example above there are three references provided, but the claim statements do not contain ref tags indicating which reference applies where. The ref tags instead have been placed outside of the text, bundled together towards the bottom. Your edit request similarly bundles the ref tags together outside of the area of the text. These links between material and their source references must be more clearly made, as shown in the next example below: CORRECT The Sun's diameter is 864,337 miles, while the Moon's diameter is 2,159 miles. The Sun's temperature is 5,778 degrees Kelvin. References

• In the second example above, the links between the provided references and their claim statement ref tags are perfectly clear. Kindly reformulate your edit request so that it aligns more with the second example above, and feel free to re-submit that edit request at your earliest convenience. Regards,  Spintendo  01:03, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

ReqEdit Attempt2

Change x to y using z

x Remove the current Criticisms section completely including the title: Criticism In 2017 Berners-Lee was criticized by prominent defenders of Internet freedom for approving Encrypted Media Extensions that standardizes Digital Rights Management technology, thus restricting digital freedom.[71][72] Critics include Free Software Foundation and Electronic Frontier Foundation. y Add to the Policy work section immediately above the paragraph On 30 September 2018, Berners-Lee announced...: In March 2017 Berners-Lee decided, after several years of remaining neutral on the Encrypted Media Extensions (EME) proposals with its controversial Digital Rights Management (DRM) implications, indicated he felt the situation required him to make a decision and that he had concluded he would back the EME proposals. The decision provoked a strong critical response particularly as his position as director of the W3C meant his rulings ultimately determined if a specification progressed to become a W3C recommendation. In July 2017 Berners-Lee chose to approve the developed EME specification; a decision that would by default lead to its ratification as a W3C recommendation in two weeks. Joining others in criticism of the decision and its implications the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFE) raised an appeal, the first in the W3C's history. W3C members went on to vote and ratify the EFE recommendation in September 2017. z References

Thankyou: Djm-leighpark (talk) 01:21, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

Reply 30-MAY-2019

The prose in the edit request is not grammatical. Some of the issues:

Grammatical issue examples

1. In March 2017 Berners-Lee decided, after several years of remaining neutral on the Encrypted Media Extensions (EME) proposals with its controversial Digital Rights Management (DRM) implications, indicated he felt the situation required him to make a decision and that he had concluded he would back the EME proposals. The above sentence contains three adjectives: decided, indicated, and concluded all within the same sentence. 2. The decision provoked a strong critical response particularly as his position as director of the W3C meant his rulings ultimately determined if a specification progressed to become a W3C recommendation. The above sentence mis-uses two different adverbs, particular and ultimately. It implies that the decision provoked a strong response (underlined in blue) particularly because of his position as director (underlined in green). However, his position as director (green) ultimately means his rulings may cause a specification to progress to a recommendation (blue) only if they choose to do so. The position's particular ruling (orange) is ostensibly what the response was to (blue), and not the position's ultimate ability to make those rulings (green). This can be seen when one switches the positions of the words ultimately and particular in the sentence: "This particular decision provoked a strong critical response because ultimately his position as director of the W3C means his rulings determine if a specification progresses to become a W3C recommendation." 3. Joining others in criticism of the decision and its implications the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFE) raised an appeal, the first in the W3C's history. This sentence has to main parts to it but no comma connecting the two. Regards,  Spintendo  04:00, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

ReqEdit Attempt3

Change x to y using z

x Remove the current Criticisms section completely including the title: Criticism In 2017 Berners-Lee was criticized by prominent defenders of Internet freedom for approving Encrypted Media Extensions that standardizes Digital Rights Management technology, thus restricting digital freedom.[71][72] Critics include Free Software Foundation and Electronic Frontier Foundation. y Add to the Policy work section immediately above the paragraph On 30 September 2018, Berners-Lee announced...: Berners-Lee's position as director of the W3C meant his final approval was required before a specification progressed to become a W3C recommendation. He had for several years maintained neutrality on the Encrypted Media Extensions (EME) proposal with its controversial Digital Rights Management (DRM) implications. In March 2017 he indicated he felt the situation required him to state a position on the matter and he had chosen to support the EME proposal. Widespread criticism arose from his decision, its implications, and his stated reasoning for coming to his position. There were claims the position was "defeatist" and not supportive of the internet's open philosophy against commercial interests. In July 2017 Berners-Lee chose to approve the developed EME specification; a decision that would by default lead to its ratification as a W3C recommendation in two weeks. There was significant opposition to his decision and its implications with the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFE) raising a formal appeal. W3C members went on to vote and ratify the EFE specification as a W3C recommendation in September 2017. z References

Taking into account the accepted rejection above I have reworked into smaller sentences; this has also involved some movements of phrases. The note about the first W3C appeal was not sourced in the given references and I choose to remove it rather than trying to source it. I have expanded somewhat reasoning for the criticism. In doing these things it is of course possible I have cleared some issues but introduced others. I believe I have indicated Berners-Lee's role in this reasonably accurately. While the size of this contribution is larger than I originally planned I am minded that it is overly WP:UNDUE but further expansion might me. Thankyou.Djm-leighpark (talk) 08:53, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

I've tweaked the paragraph a bit. Let me know how this reads:

Berners-Lee's position as director of the W3C meant that his final approval was required before a specification progressed to become a W3C recommendation. With its controversial Digital Rights Management (DRM) implications, he had for several years maintained neutrality on the Encrypted Media Extensions (EME) proposal. However, by March 2017 he indicated that he felt the situation required him to finally state his position on the matter, which was to support the EME proposal. Widespread criticism of his decision and its implications arose, a portion of it centered on Berners-Lee's stated reasoning for coming to the position. There were claims that his position was "defeatist" and not supportive of the internet's open philosophy against commercial interests. In July 2017 Berners-Lee chose to approve the developed EME specification, a decision that would by default lead to its ratification as a W3C recommendation two weeks later. Despite the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFE) raising a formal appeal, W3C members went on to vote and ratify the EFE specification as a W3C recommendation in September 2017.

Regards,  Spintendo  11:55, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

References

@Spintendo That tweak looks good. I hope to fill in the blanks a correct EFE to EME typo I made and I'll submit a further edit request hopefully shortly. The second pair of eyes is really helpful for me on this. Djm-leighpark (talk) 12:42, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

ReqEdit Attempt4

Change x to y using z

x Remove the current Criticisms section completely including the title: Criticism In 2017 Berners-Lee was criticized by prominent defenders of Internet freedom for approving Encrypted Media Extensions that standardizes Digital Rights Management technology, thus restricting digital freedom.[71][72] Critics include Free Software Foundation and Electronic Frontier Foundation. y Add to the Policy work section immediately above the paragraph On 30 September 2018, Berners-Lee announced...: Berners-Lee's position as director of the W3C meant that his final approval was required before a specification progressed to become a W3C recommendation. With its controversial Digital Rights Management (DRM) implications, he had for several years maintained neutrality on the Encrypted Media Extensions (EME) proposal. However, by March 2017 he indicated that he felt the situation required him to finally state his position on the matter, which was to support the EME proposal. Widespread criticism of his decision and its implications arose, a portion of it centered on Berners-Lee's stated reasoning for coming to the position. A number of opponents of DRM felt he was not being not supportive of the internet's open philosophy against commercial interests. In July 2017 Berners-Lee chose to approve the developed EME specification, a decision that would by default lead to its ratification as a W3C recommendation two weeks later. Despite the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) raising a formal appeal, W3C members went on to vote and ratify the EME specification as a W3C recommendation in September 2017. z References

I need to look at the criticisms section and see if I need to weave in part of "Many of the comments on Berners-Lee's post are also strongly critical of his position. Most of the arguments put forward are ideological rather than pragmatic, and do not address his counter-points about DRM being a simple reality with EME offering a standard that ultimately provides better protection for the Web as a whole.". But I need to do other things for a bit and then I'll rework the above.Djm-leighpark (talk) 13:43, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

"Prominent defenders of internet freedom" and "thus restricted internet freedom" needs to be re-worded. Those claims shouldn't be phrased using Wikipedia's voice. Also, if this is the same criticism which is mentioned in the other section, then it can be merged. Please advise.  Spintendo  03:52, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

I agree ... and that was my start point ... sorry I've been caught up or just trying to over improve a solution. I hope to look at this in the next two hours. Thank you.

Djm-leighpark (talk) 05:52, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

I had put forward a revised edit proposal above. I have found myself struggling on the issue of how to accurately handle There were claims which probably requires an expansion here and actually probably also means Berners-Lee's position needs also to be expanded. Removing "defeastist" which really requires the "Canute" reasoning to balance it helps ease some the issue. I have therefore updated and requested the version above. I agree the priority is to remove Prominent defenders of internet freedom. I am happy for any reasonable modification to my request; or for the criticisms section to be modified, reverted to an early revision if one exists, or to be removed completely. Further modifications/requests can always be made later. Thankyou. Djm-leighpark (talk) 06:31, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

The article has a very significant problem with sharing its text with other websites such as stratford.edu, w3.org, acm.org, birchills.net, and computinghistory.org among many others. I've never seen a Wikipedia article having its text used on so many other websites quite as much as this article's text is. And not just on Wikipedia mirrors — almost the entirety of this story in The Sun by Phoebe Cooke for example, has been plagiarized from Wikipedia, while large portions of text are also shared by w3.org — so much so that it begs the classic chicken and egg question asking which website the text first appeared on. Who's to say that text which I rewrite here using my own phrasing is not going to end up on w3.org or in one of Ms. Cooke's articles for The Sun 3 months from now. As I see it, the article is better off without that assistance. Regards,  Spintendo  16:24, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

@Spintendo. Fair enough. Hopefully your OK with any suggestions you've made so far being incorporated. I myself have sort of been a bit edgy about the several years maintained neutrality on as I may have inadvertently plagarised around that. Given any coi I have is arguably hairbreadth and certainly doesn't apply 2010+ of the EME/DRM period and given you've agreed Prominent defenders of internet freedom needs to go its time for me to be WP:BOLD and make the edit myself ... peoples can sort out any issues in normal editing. Again if I do this with any suggestions to date to you require any attribution? I'm happy with no/yes/(whichever-you-think). I've set request to declined. Thanks again for your comments. (This is a quick answer which I'm am doing in passing while having a coffee). I might look at copyvio stuff later.Djm-leighpark (talk) 17:25, 2 June 2019 (UTC) I hope to review particularly Wikipedia:BACKWARDSCOPY later (my last experience trying to follow that was not great).Djm-leighpark (talk) 18:27, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

I've added three backwards copyies to the specific articles in your links (EARWIG across the web shows more I havn't touched). I view the Sun article as the most serious. I've not seen as much of problem with acm, W3C and computinghistory.org but hands up I could have missed stuff. Unfortunately EARWIG's tool can miss quotes and I've seen a little of that with ACM. I dont think I've going any further with this today but I do wonder if the issue with the Sun article should be escalated? Djm-leighpark (talk) 23:03, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

Content added to article

• Under the cirsumstances I'm been a bit WP:BOLD] and I've added content back into the article about the EME interactions in the Policy section. I've tried to focus on Berner-lee's involvement. While I have a COI on the article this more relates to pre-1990 (and even then very slight to neglible) than EME/DRM 2010s. In retospect I probably made a bad choice of revert point and not sure my criticism of Bersh's second edit was correct ... though it probably went too far away from Berner-Lee. It's probably possible to bring out more of Berner-Lee's quotes on this from the provided sources as the may be significant in terms of W3C role but I leave that for others. Thankyou. Djm-leighpark (talk) 06:57, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

grammatical correction

[63] The EFF raised a formal appeal with did not succeed and the EME specification became a formal W3C recommendation in September 2017.[65] the word with seems has been used wrongly and should be which--Arash73p (talk) 16:50, 4 September 2019 (UTC)  Done

Semi-protected edit request on 27 October 2021

Could "Professor" please be removed from the honorific prefix in the infobox per MOS:CREDENTIAL? Thanks, 207.161.86.162 (talk) 01:52, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

 Done Cheers, Extraordinary Writ (talk) 05:28, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

Internet and World-Wide Web

The phrase the invention of the World Wide Web was ranked number one, with the entry stating, "The fastest growing communications medium of all time, the Internet has changed the shape of modern life forever. We can connect with each other instantly, all over the world." seems to confuse the Internet and the WWW. Supposing the source of the quote does not, the sentence should be rephrased to show that it does not. 2.247.243.252 (talk) 07:34, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

The reason is because it used to be called the World Wide Web. --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 11:07, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

The World Wide Web is still distinct from the Internet at large. For example, E-mail, which was already well-established by the 1980s, is part of the Internet but not of the Web. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 22:50, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Hyperlinks

These are being managed by non-websites today to work 100% against Tim Berners-Lee's vision. This article should have a section on hyperlinks, with him as the author, as per the article Hyperlink. It takes me to link that article to him in 2023? Well, apparently it's necessary. Henrik Erlandsson 22:48, 7 September 2023 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by HenrikErlandsson (talk • contribs)