Talk:The Secret of the Golden Flower

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Yin and Yang aspects

I find the passage about the difference between the Yin-quality of Wilhelm's translation and the Yang of Cleary's very interesting. However the article doesn't say what this means. Could someone enlarge? What are the 'significant differences' between the two versions? ThePeg 20:37, 15 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Trying to describe the difference between yin and yang qualities may provoke controversy, as opinions vary, but the yin nature of Wilhelm's work is suggested by the fact that he communicated what he received from Chinese teachers, while the yang nature of Cleary's work is suggested by the fact that he created his own translation, from his knowledge of Chinese language and philosophy. The major differences probably relate to those facts. In some instances, for example, Cleary says Wilhelm's work presents passages that are not found in the Secret of the Golden Flower. Another approach may be to say that Wilhelm's work interprets the book while Cleary translates it. Kulalaw, November 24, 2006.

Cleary has translated several books from what is called The Complete Reality School of Tao, of which The Secret of the Golden Flower is a central text. Cleary goes into some detail in his commentaries, describing this school as having two branches, a northern (mind) and a southern (energetics/body), and while The Secret of the Golden Flower is an important text for both branches, it is interpreted differently by each branch; the southern branch, which he ascribes Wilhelm's translation to adhere, is concerned more with the physical yogic aspect of interpretation, while the northern branch focuses primarily on the mental abstraction of unified beingness and clarification of intent. Cleary leans toward the northern school, yet also stresses that both aspects are necessary for true comprehension.

Yin and Yang express the concept of all aspects of duality and Tao represents all forms of unity. The interpretation, application and transformation of these terms is dynamical, depending on context, yet maintains a coherent structure across the whole cosmology it describes and defines. For example, Yang and Yin may be expressed as body and mind, sense (perception) and essence (consciousness), fire and water, metal and wood, self and other, male and female, etc., etc., etc. Fractile, 69.3.236.186 18:26, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Erroneous addition

I regret the need to dispute parts of the section titled 'Chinese Taoists evaluate The Secret of the Golden Flower.' Wilhelm's translation includes a commentary by his friend Carl Jung. Jung describes how he used mandala therapy in his practice, but Jung's commentary is not actually part of The Secret of the Golden Flower text. The text of The Secret of the Golden Flower describes various affirmations one may experience after having practiced the meditation for a sufficient time. The minimum time cited in the book for the meditation to begin to have an effect is 100 days. Examples of the affirmations described in the text include a feeling of floating upward, or a feeling of sitting in a cloud. Perhaps Master Wang Liping obtained emphasis upon mandala imagery in meditation from his lineage, but I have not found mandala imagery emphasized in the text of Wilhelm's translation of The Secret of the Golden Flower. 173.117.194.54 (talk) 05:22, 7 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

February 24, 2010, further comment:

The misfortune of misinformation continues as people seem to take the opportunity to add to this article ideas that may have some relevance to their beliefs, but are simply not found in the book the article is about. I'm not sure what the Wiki policy is here, beyond the tolerance of allowing anyone to change anything. For example, the heading An Initiatic Content and this italicized addition was made to the prior article:

Despite the varieties of impressions, interpretation and opinion expressed by Wilhelm, Jung and Cleary, the meditation technique described by The Secret of the Golden Flower is a straightforward, silent, multileveled technique designed and expressed as the progressive integration of some inner mandala rising inside some "golden palace" or "chamber" ; the book's description of meditation has been characterized as 'Zen with details'.

The added material is not to be found in the translation, however.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.117.248.152 (talk) 08:01, 25 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Anglophilia

It is unfortunate that it is difficult to locate an English translation, abstract or any details of the mentioned study "Study of the Secret of Golden Flower Internal alchemy practise". Including it in this article seems totally valid but frustratingly unenlightening for the crude, perhaps ignorant English reader. I'm guessing that verification (ie: "Encyclopedic content must be verifiable"- Wikipedia Guidelines) may be incomplete if an Abstract is unavailable in the language of the entry... (ie: which "European" s were involved) While this cultural relativism casts doubt over any Wikipedia entry that isn't translated into every language on earth, doesn't the very logic of including European(s) demand something of this nature? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.177.64.162 (talk) 11:46, 4 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

not encyclopedic

This entry really needs work. Right now it reads in parts like a essay for an undergraduate Asian Philosophy course. As a start toward making this entry more encyclopedic, I propose removing the following passage, which is original research, if not just plain commentary:

Like the story of blind people describing an elephant, it seems the poetic aspect of Chinese philosophy communicates an imagery that serves to inform and confirm practitioners according to their own predispositions. The poetic imagery essentially conveys ideas and perceptions better suited to imagining than reasoning, with the hope that in time a convergence of imagery and reason will take place in an informative manner.

ZheXueJia (talk) 13:34, 6 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Pictures

One wonders what is the purpose of those two illustrations, which are not found in the Secret of the Golden Flower. (They derive from another text, entitled Xingming guizhi.) Since the lest two paragraphs of the section "Methods" in this article refer to those illustrations, they are also irrelevant.

Xuanying, Mar 26, 2019 —Preceding undated comment added 22:42, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Secret of the Golden Flower

Alchemy 2600:8800:3618:E900:E18E:D1B5:B41B:F82B (talk) 19:03, 26 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]