Talk:The Player of Games

Who is the real Master Player here?

It's gotta be a Mind behind it. Minds run everything. --Evercat 6 July 2005 10:31 (UTC)

On the whole, yes, although Consider Phlebas has a human character who is frequently able to out-guess Minds, and whose advice is certainly listened to by them. As it's undisclosed who's actually behind the plot in The Player Of Games, it could well be a similarly talented non-Mind. The Culture is too pragmatic to rely solely on Minds in these sorts of cases. --Plumbago 6 July 2005 10:53 (UTC)

Random insertion

Sorry. Didn't think it was worth doing a talk item on it. I removed the text as it's just a bit random. It doesn't fit where it is (though I notice that it's restoration has moved it), doesn't illuminate the plot (as it refers to two characters otherwise not referred to), and isn't really necessary - the plot's filled out enough as it stands (good work there!). That's all. Cheers, --Plumbago 16:42, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Sure. I'd like to expand the reference to the two (who are both important characters) rather than delete it. Guinnog 21:40, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I second you two expanding the character descriptions and relevancy. :) --maru (talk) contribs 02:30, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

They're still not expanded, and I still think they're unnecessary. The plot summary is fine as it is. Cheers, --Plumbago 08:39, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I've commented out the "offending" text for now. I really don't think it adds anything. Also, it introduces Chamlis, a relatively minor character, ahead of others who feature more prominently. Finally, the current entry on the novel's plot covers it pretty well without going over the top. To introduce more is unnecessary to my mind (= my POV). --Plumbago 12:05, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

The Glass Bead Game

I'd love to know if Banks has ever acknowledged a debt to Hermann Hesse's novel The Glass Bead Game. It seems like an obvious inspiration but you never know, maybe he'd never heard of it and the idea was totally independent. --Spondoolicks

Details on the game and Azad society

I don't think we should go into great detail here. The book makes it clear that it is not a simple thing. The facts are: yes, females and males don't get to learn the game; yes, there is eugenics and GM; and yes, the draw for the game is rigged. And yes, Azadian society is the way it is. We shouldn't make it simpler than Banks does; the beauty is in the complexity of it. Is the game causing the society, or vice versa? In a summary (which is what we are writing), it is enough to say they don't, which is what is important. --Guinnog 01:59, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, then perhaps we need to beef up the summary if it isn't appropriate for the aside section? --maru (talk) contribs 02:24, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Ok. I'm off to bed though. If you put something up I'll have a look at it in the norning. --Guinnog 02:26, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Similarity to Damage

The article presently ends with a claim that Azad bears a similarity to Damage, from Phlebas. How is this sustainable? Damage is a cards&emotions game played around a table. Azad a board game, using cards, dice, elemental matching &c.Khavakoz 20:18, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Image

Need a new image for the book here. Somebodies stupid bot decided the image I took myself wasn't legit. tyx (talk) 16:24, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes please, an image would be nice. Hopefully the more modern cover. 71.196.132.32 (talk) 23:07, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

It's A Conspiracy!

"Although Gurgeh never discovers the whole truth, it is ultimately revealed to the reader that even the blackmail that forced him to accept the mission was almost certainly carried out with the knowledge and permission of some faction within Special Circumstances itself." Can anyone substantiate that? Sounds like speculation to me, unless I missed something fairly major. Gazok (talk) 12:42, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

I think that's pretty clearly implied by the epilogue by the drone, particularly the 'I - we' comment. That, and it makes perfect sense of the overall plot; Banks, at least, would appreciate the irony of Gurgeh being a piece SC is playing from the start. --Gwern (contribs) 19:21 1 March 2009 (GMT)

There's a line in Excession about the "Azadian debacle" -- IIRC from one of the Interesting Times Gang -- which to my mind pretty clearly implies that it's some sort of rogue element in SC. YMMV. Markfiend (talk) 15:22, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, I never thought about it like that. It makes more sense than my assumption of coincidental assignment of Skiffen-Amithingy to Gurgeh's mission.

Gazok (talk) 17:51, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Well, there is this paragraph (pg 108 of my ebook):

"3.2 Under the terms of the Temporary Emergencies (Allowed Subter-fuges) Post-Debacle Steering Committee report following the Azadian Matter, the maximum length of the M32 secrecy interval has been set at 128 days standard from n•, with a Mean Envisaged Duration of 96 days and a full-sub-committee review period of 32 hours."

Which is close - 'Post-Debacle Steering Committee' certainly sounds negative. But I'm not sure this clearly implies a rogue element. --Gwern (contribs) 12:56 7 April 2009 (GMT)

Yes, that's the bit I meant. Actually looking at it, it's not as clear-cut as I remembered. Thanks Gwern. Markfiend (talk) 07:05, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

It does fit SC's modus operandi

--Mrmaigo (talk) 07:23, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Who is the Ambassador?

An associate of mine wondered if the Ambassador, Za, was actually Cheredanine Zakalwe. Zakalwe appears in Use_of_Weapons and also in Surface_Detail. The.dvincent (talk) 09:20, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

SpaceX Autonomous spaceport drone ships (ASDS)

Is it worth noting somewhere that two ships named in the book have real-life counterparts in the Autonomous spaceport drone ships operated by SpaceX? Just Read The Instructions and Of Course I Still Love You are landing platforms used in testing the controlled return of rocket boosters from space launches (Just Read The Instructions now retired from service). --Coconino (talk) 18:55, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

I definitely like the idea of adding a "In popular culture" section, or something of the like. This would be particularly justified if we could find other references to it; maybe look for those and then do it all at once so that there's a clear case for their presence?ACB Smith (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 19:43, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

I think a brief mention could be appropriate, but it's important to avoid one of those hideously long and pointless trivia or "in popular culture" sections that blight so many articles. Perhaps we could create a section called "homage by Elon Musk" to note that he chose the names in recognition of Iain Banks. He announced the tribute on Twitter on January 23 this year. --TS 19:48, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

I was unable to find any other references in popular culture, so the SpaceX mentions are going to have to stand alone for now. Perhaps this would be better suited as a section within the The Culture article as a whole?ACB Smith (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 23:46, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

I think it might be a good idea to mention this as a posthumous tribute in the biographical article about Iain Banks (I believe he has already had an asteroid or somesuch named in his honour). I still see no earthly reason to clutter any part of Wikipedia with random trash, so please let's not encourage it by classifying this perfectly good tribute as a "popular culture" reference. --TS 00:26, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

It has been added to the Iain Banks page in the "remembrance" section. I'm not too attached to "in popular culture", but I think that a "posthumous" mention makes it about the author, not the book. I also see this as a tribute to the books and their marvellous ship names more than to Banks himself. ACB Smith (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 04:22, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

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