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This article was copy edited by AngusWOOF, a member of the Guild of Copy Editors, on 2014-09-09.Guild of Copy EditorsWikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsTemplate:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsGuild of Copy Editors articles
Loniel's only mentioned twice in the article, so why is he listed in the lead paragraph? If he is that notable, shouldn't be also be in the personnel credits? -AngusWOOF (talk) 14:38, 8 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
So I just want to weigh in the addition of funk. I'm not doubting that this is influenced by funk, and as you state, critics note as it as an influence, but I don't think it should be in the infobox because it hasn't been described it as a straight up funk album. I'm totally cool with having it in the article where it's mentioned, but I think it would mis-lead a reader to think it's a Funk album if they were just reading the infobox. Thoughts? Andrzejbanas (talk) 17:17, 12 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with you, this album is not a straight-up funk album or even predominantly funk, but neither is it straight-up post-hardcore. When people look at an info box they usually take the first genre to know what an album predominantly sounds like while the others just cover that there are other elements at play. I feel it wouldn't be representative of what letlive. do on this album to just put post-hardcore and that would actually be the misleading decision (personally of course). But above my personal opinion, which I know holds not sway on Wikipedia, funk being cited felt far to common to not be included into the infobox. Jonjonjohny (talk) 13:12, 13 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'd disagree as I often just see the genres listed alphabetically. The infobox instructions don't actually state how to list genres appropriately either. But my suggestion would be to not have funk in the infobox, but in the lead of the article be sure to talk about how critics noted the funk influence on the album. Influence doesn't place it in the genre, but just listing it on it's own suggests the album might sound like Zapp or something. Critics seem to note the "funk influence" more than it being a funk album straight-up. I just woke up and this sentence might be a bit weird, but I think you know what I'm getting at. Right? :) Andrzejbanas (talk) 15:10, 13 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It's been a bit and I have not heard any news from you. If there is nothing else to add, i'll assume consensus and remove funk per my statements above. Andrzejbanas (talk) 17:45, 30 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I have been on the whole absent from wiki, I've struggled to gather the motivation to edit as real life stuff has fallen into motion. I'm still adamant on my position, as the quotes used directly reference funk as a part of the style as much as punk rather than just an influence. I just think only putting post-hardcore is reductionist, It's like how the London Calling article had punk and reggae next to each other. (it currently has post-punk instead, but it's notable that there is dispute behind the generalisation). Jonjonjohny (talk) 18:53, 30 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No problem. Since we've kind of hit a stalemate, I'll ask for others to weigh in from various wikiprojects. Hopefully we can come to some solution. Cheers! Andrzejbanas (talk) 00:07, 1 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Remove Funk unless it can be proven that it is a predominant genre used by multiple/many reliable sources. Funk should certainly be mentioned, but more in the "Sound" "Composition/Music" type section, in prose. Not the infobox. Sergecross73msg me01:25, 1 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Remove Funk as per the logic supplied by Sergecross73 and Andrzejbanas. Having "funk" in the infobox could be misleading to the casual reader IMO, but it is absolutely correct to discuss the funk influence/styles in the appropriate section of the article. Thanks — sparklism hey!12:50, 1 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Per Wikipedia:WikiProject_Albums/Album_article_style_guide#Album_ratings_template, "Include no more than ten reviews in table form. When choosing which reviews to include, consider the notability of the review source and keeping a neutral point of view. For older albums, try to include not just contemporary but also some more recent reviews.". Currently we have 13, instead of removing random ones, I thought we should discuss what stays and what goes. My first nomination would be to keep the ones that were in print opposed to online ones. But I think that would still only get rid of one or two, when we need to get rid of three. Thoughts? Andrzejbanas (talk) 17:29, 12 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'd personally swap Allmusic with Sputnik as Allmusic has stronger writers who have worked for other material. This is Fake DIY should definiately be one of the first on the chopping block though. Andrzejbanas (talk) 15:07, 13 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"... still debuted in the United States at number 74 on Billboard 200 and number six on its Hard Rock Albums, with nearly five thousand copies sold." - Re-write as "still debuted in the United States at number 74 on the Billboard 200 and number six on the Hard Rock Albums chart, with nearly five thousand copies sold."--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 22:10, 15 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"One of the reviewers considered grouping it as pop record due to its clear, melodic structure,[22] while others grouped it with punk rock,[3][6][23] soul,[24] funk and showing 'glimpses' of other music styles including Afrobeat, electronica and jazz.[25]" - Re-write as "Mike Diver of Clash considered it pop record with clear, melodic structure,[22] while others grouped it with punk rock,[3][6][23] soul,[24] and funk, as well as displaying 'glimpses' of other music styles including Afrobeat, electronica and jazz.[25]"--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 22:10, 15 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"Terry Bezer said the album has 'as much in common with funk as punk',[21] and also that the album features 'the musical dexterity and reckless abandon of razor-edged funk'.[6]" - Re-write as "Terry Bezer in Front found that the album has 'as much in common with funk as punk',[21] and wrote in Metal Hammer that the album features 'the musical dexterity and reckless abandon of razor-edged funk'.[6]"--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 22:10, 15 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"The album's lyrics are described as "politically, socially and personally conscious",[25] with themes like: corporate greed, racism and growing up in a broken home.[18]" - re-write as "The album's lyrics are described as 'politically, socially and personally conscious',[25] incorporating themes such as corporate greed, racism and growing up in a broken home.[18]"--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 22:10, 15 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"Channing Freeman of Sputnikmusic said the songs lack the same immediacy in comparison to those on Fake History, however, they have more longevity.[37]" - Re-write as "Channing Freeman of Sputnikmusic said while the songs lack the same immediacy in comparison to those on Fake History, they have more longevity.[37]"--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 22:10, 15 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"However, Dave Simpson for The Guardian criticized the "adolescent, cliched lyrics", especially from the track "The Priest and Used Cars".[20]" - Re-write as "However, Dave Simpson, writing for The Guardian, criticized the album's "adolescent, cliched lyrics", especially from the track 'The Priest and Used Cars'.[20]"
Instead of saying "as the key reason for letlive.'s chaotic and primal live performances," I think "as the key force behind for letlive.'s chaotic and primal live performances" is much better. Also, and more important to this GA review, the band name should not be italicized.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 22:10, 15 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
For the second sound file caption, "Track 7 and single 'Younger' has been used by critics to highlight letlive's "staggering dynamics, brain-burrowing melodies and intelligent production tricks".[17]" could be better re-written as "the single 'Younger', the album's seventh track, highlight letlive's "staggering dynamics, brain-burrowing melodies and intelligent production tricks".[17]"--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 22:10, 15 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Overall: Several minor issues with the prose, and a few other minor issues.
Pass or Fail:
I will make a further note on the prose. The article, apart from what I've noted in this review, meets GA criteria. However, for featured status, the prose still needs significant work. One major issue, which is a pain, is that the article mixes British and American English. It uses American spelling and dates, but includes some elements of British grammar. In American English, bands are referred to in the singular - "it" and "its" - unless the name is a plural (e.g. The New York Dolls). Since letlive. is singular, terms such as "they," "are," and "their" need to be made singular. If the statement is about the members collectively, that can use plural terms, but only if "band members" is specified. This will not affect the GA, so I'd encourage editors to address my GAR concerns first. However, after that is done, I'd suggest rectifying this issue.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 22:10, 15 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
