Talk:That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore

Cover Art

Do we know where this cover is taken from? Creid8 23:01, 10 January 2007 (UTC) And by the way, is it little Moz on the cover? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.244.136.103 (talk) 19:53, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

For reference, the full Smash Hits Morrissey comment on the single's artwork is: "If ever a human face portrayed such pained stainlessness—apart from my own—it would surely be this child's. The eyes are encrusted with hurt and premature wisdom, making the poor banished children of Eve seem like snotty simpletons in comparison." Pololei (talk) 20:50, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Lyric interpretation in article

Have removed the information on lyric interpretation because (1) interpretation is a matter of opinion and the opinions in the article were those of contributors and (2) the original text had accumulated so many edits by contributors as to make it difficult to read. (I've put the text in the Interpretation section on this page.)

Have replaced it with information about what is known about the song's narrative, along with a short comment that detailed literal interpretation is probably not possible or not a good idea. (The range of interpretations shown on this page or in the article history demonstrate this.) As a suggestion, any original lyric interpretations should go on this page rather than the article’s. Pololei (talk) 21:05, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Interpretation of lyrics

I don't think from the lyrics it can be determined that 'the passenger commits murder to “drive the point home.”' I doubt the 'smothering' is meant to be taken as anything more than an angry threat, to indicate how seriously the narrator takes the joke. If indeed the song is about murder and suicide, it would seriously undercut the poignancy of the repeated final lines ("I've seen this happen in other people's lives, and now it's happening in mine."), which I believe refer to the loss of one's sense of humour and inability to laugh at oneself. This subtle self-examination would not be in keeping with the murder/suicide interpretation. Cdeuskar 03:35, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree - park the car at the side of the road - so I can get off. It would be too far fetched - I don't like your joke so I kill you. Well, The Smiths are more subtle than that. I disagree though that the final lines necessarily mean the loss of one's sense of humor - they might as well mean the loneliness - the loss of one's friends or whatever. The Ubik 16:23, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I believe that there is a temporal inversion in the narrative - he was actually driving the point home and then the driver made that offensive joke. The Ubik 20:10, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I have corrected what i believe to be an error in the former interpretation. When Morrissey sings "I drove the point home" it would appear obvious that, as I have added, he is making his point in response to the joke and driving the car. In other words, we can surmise that Morrissey is, in fact, the driver and not the passenger (which The Ubik was getting at). It is not the case that Morrissey once sat in the passenger seat that he is necessarily doing so here. I agree with the argument below that nothing in the song's lyrics suggests that murder or suicide has occurred – 89.224.131.202 (talk) 18:26, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

I think the lyrics in this song are about more than a car ride...it touches upon mental breakdown and suggests Morrissey's distaste at the way perhaps the media or society cruelly mocks the weak or afflicted...I also gauge a sexual innuendo in the line 'it was dark as I drove the point home'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.132.20.85 (talk) 17:26, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

The paragraph below was taken from the article.Pololei (talk) 20:46, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

The song is about the effects of bullying on the confidence and psychology of individuals. ("when you laugh about people who feel so very lonely / their only desire is to die"). In an extended monologue, Morrissey responds to 'the joke'. He plays with figurative and literal meanings – notably in the line "I drove the point home" – which could refer to the literal "return home" in the car and the insistence with which he makes his point in response to the joke, or the point is a knife that he drives into his wrist (to commit suicide). Alternatively "I drove the point home/and on cold leather seats" could be a reference to sexual intercourse. Morrissey has been quoted as finding leather car seats highly erotic despite being vegeterian.

References

"Meat Is Murder" live EP

Despite test pressings having been made, a "Meat Is Murder" live EP was aborted in favour of "That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore" as the next Smiths single. The two singles share some of the live tracks and catalogue numbers. However, there's nothing to indicate that this wasn't a case of those live tracks and catalogue numbers simply being reclaimed and reused.

Although awareness of its existence may prompt curiosity, where the "That Joke..." single is concerned, the "Meat Is Murder" EP is of relatively trivial interest. Certainly, it reveals nothing about "That Joke..." itself. (The article is, after all, about the song, not the single.) The second edition of Goddard's Songs That Saved Your Life devotes two pages to the track with neither referring to the "Meat Is Murder" EP.

Information about the aborted live EP belongs to a "Meat Is Murder" or Smiths discography article. (Indeed, in his book, Goddard places it under the "Meat Is Murder" heading.) Pololei (talk) 21:11, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Tjifa-original.jpg

Image:Tjifa-original.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 01:40, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

External link to poster for single

An external link to www.thesmiths.cat showing the poster for the "That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore" single has been inserted and removed (twice). The initial reason for removal was that it was spam. The latter is that the source is not reliable. Although the link isn't ideal, and although it was initially unfocused and untidy, I'm not convinced that it should be removed. Please expand on the reasons for its removal.

The link in question is: http://www.thesmiths.cat/2011/12/that-joke-isnt-funny-anymore-aquesta-broma-ja-no-fa-mes-gracia/ Pololei (talk) 09:49, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Please read WP:RS. The link clearly does not meet that guideline. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 14:22, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

I have read the relevant parts of those guidelines and likewise the guidelines on external links. It isn't clear that the link must be removed. If you'd expand on your reasons, this would be helpful. Pololei (talk) 18:37, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

[[2]]: "Self-published material may sometimes be acceptable when its author is an established expert whose work in the relevant field has been published by reliable third-party publications. Self-published information should never be used as a source about a living person, even if the author is a well-known professional researcher or writer; see WP:BLP#Reliable sources." In other words, a fan page doesn't cut it. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 19:44, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

The information in question is an external link to an official promotional poster for the single "That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore".

Although the website containing the image is self-published, the site's owner is a recognised collector of The Smiths official promotional posters. His posters have been exhibited following, according to him, "over a decade of careful research". He's been interviewed (in Spain) on radio and in print about the posters. The Spanish Rolling Stone, for instance, featured an article on his "collection completa de los pósters promocionales de The Smiths".

It's also important to keep a sense of perspective: external links form part of the body of an article but they aren't, for example, biographical information. According to Wikipedia, a "lightweight source may sometimes be acceptable for a lightweight claim". Likewise, websites that contain information from knowledgeable sources but fail to meet the criteria for reliable sources may still be acceptable. (It's not simply the case that "a fan page doesn't cut it".)

The source is reliable enough to support the claim. It would be difficult for me to be convinced that the image linked to is not an image of the official promotional poster for the single. (The poster turns up elsewhere on-line—for example, here.) The second sentence of the policy quoted doesn't apply; this isn't information "about a living person". Pololei (talk) 11:08, 6 August 2013 (UTC)