Talk:Syrian opposition/Archive 1

Archive 1

File:Free Syrian Army & Syrian National Council.jpg Nominated for Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Free Syrian Army & Syrian National Council.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests December 2011 What should I do? Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so. If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use) If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used. This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 08:23, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Good reference

This is a great article by Arabic BBC about opposition parties in Syria. (translated here). Bahraini Activist ^{Talk to me} 11:09, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

POV concerns

Far be it from me to defend the Assad dynasty, but there are some outrageously POV statements in this article - "appalling conditions", "no regard for human rights or due process", etc. - and not enough reliable sources. I'm not a regular editor on this article, but if someone who is could go through and find sources for each of these claims and reword things that aren't direct quotes in a more neutral way, that would go a long way toward making this page more credible. -Kudzu1 (talk) 18:58, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

More importantly, it is becoming clear that this is just a front for Islamists. Ghalyoun and the rest are mere token-secularists. FunkMonk (talk) 23:54, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Jihadist groups?

Shouldn't this article include the jihadist groups with the armed opposition like Al-Nusra Front? Charles Essie (talk) 21:53, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

2nd-paragraph quote

"The core of the grassroots civil opposition is the youth, mainly from the working and middle-classes, in which women and diverse religious and ethnic groups play active roles. Many of these activists remain non-affiliated to traditional political ideologies but are motivated by concerns for freedom, dignity, social justice and basic human rights." [1]

First off, this is a very lengthy quote and isn't attributed in the article text, so it seems a little jarring. Secondly, the source is tahriricn.wordpress.com, which may not be neutral and reliable. Just thought I'd raise these concerns.-- Brainy J ~✿~ (talk) 18:50, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Looking through this source, it has a manifesto that includes to: “In light of the revolutionary awakening of the North African and Middle Eastern countries and the growing wave of protests in Europe it is extremely important for these movements to work not only in parallel, but to support each other”. It is clear that this website is an opinion one and not a neutral POV source. Benica11 (talk) 14:45, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

"Syrian rebels" should not redirect here

Currently, Syrian rebels redirects here, which is inaccurate and too specific (this article is somehow about a territory, but with an extremely generic name?). Best would be to redirect that to a list of such groups, but the closest we have is: List of armed groups in the Syrian Civil War. Groups like Nusra Front and ISIL are also "Syrian rebels", and most other groups are not represented by or affiliated with the SNC either. FunkMonk (talk) 15:01, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

This article is about a pseudo-geopolitical entity, which names itself the Syrian Arab Republic and referred commonly as Syrian Opposition. It has representation in the Arab League (via Syrian Coalition) and has an armed force (Syrian Revolutionary Command Council). It does have a Syrian Interim Government, but several pseudo parliaments - including the Syrian Coalition, Syrian Council and National Coordination Committee for Democratic Change.GreyShark (dibra) 16:56, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

How does that address the problem? FunkMonk (talk) 17:09, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

Good point. Syrian Rebels should redirect to List of armed groups in the Syrian Civil War.GreyShark (dibra) 11:58, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Done. Also made the diffuse term Moderate Syrian rebel a redirect to there. FunkMonk (talk) 12:56, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Syrian opposition

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Syrian opposition's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Guardian":

• From List of military equipment used by Syrian opposition forces: "Is Syria's balance of firepower close to a tipping point?". The Guardian. 9 August 2012.
• From Refugees of the Syrian Civil War: "Saudi Arabia says criticism of Syria refugee response 'false and misleading'". The Guardian. 12 September 2015. {{cite web}}: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher= (help)
• From Antalya Conference for Change in Syria: Lauren Williams (30 May 2011). "Syrian businessmen back opposition conference". The Guardian. Retrieved 3 December 2015.
• From Ferzat Jarban: Hacaoglu, Selcan. November 22, 2011. "Turkey says Syria can't oppress people forever." The Guardian (U.K.) Retrieved 4 December 2011 The Guardian (U.K.)
• From Liwa Abu al-Fadhal al-Abbas: "Syrian war widens Sunni-Shia schism as foreign jihadis join fight for shrines". The Guardian. 4 June 2013. Retrieved 18 September 2013.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 18:03, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Terribly POV

"Syrian opposition" is not an actual group, yet this article describes it as a term for the Syrian National Coalition and "associated anti-regime Syrian groups" (meaning including Islamist Front and Al-Nusra then), and then goes on saying that they are "youth, mainly from the working and middle-classes, in which women and diverse religious and ethnic groups play active roles" who are "motivated by concerns for freedom, dignity, social justice and basic human rights."

Seriously? How can anyone read this with a straight face? There is a bloody war going on with opposition having branched off into ISIS and various other Islamist groups, but here it claims they are largely nonviolent young ethnic Jewish/Christian women who yearn for social justice? Sorry but it's absurd. Bataaf van Oranje (Prinsgezinde) (talk) 21:59, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Syrian opposition is not including al-Nusra. It is a set of political alliances headed by SNC and affiliated military units of FSA and Islamic Front (but not Salafist Army of Conquest).GreyShark (dibra) 11:57, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

It's right that al-Nusra isn't part of it, but it also doesn't exist under this name anymore.

However, about the article: I'm very unhappy with this, too. It's represents the rebels as far too organised (for example the infobox make it seem like the National Coalition for Syrian Revolutionary and Opposition Forces is the ultimate Syrian opposition, which is extremely wrong), it doesn't mention that the majority of the Syrian rebels are Islamist groups like Ahrar al-Sham and so on. The problem is, that almost any explanation of the green colour of the Syrian Civil War map links here. So we either have to change this article very much or link the green colour of the map to another page which shows how the Syrian rebels are actually composed.--Ermanarich (talk) 18:40, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Syrian rebels are not synonymous with Syrian opposition. Don't confuse the concepts.GreyShark (dibra) 20:13, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Then we need to link the green colour of the Syrian Civil War map to another place. Otherwise it seems like all rebels belong to the Syrian Opposition.--Ermanarich (talk) 20:31, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

We might need to rename this page to either Syrian Opposition (capitalized) or better Syrian Arab Republic (Opposition) - to emphasize that a major group of rebels are grouped (though indeed loosely) under the banner of the alternative republican system in Syria, which is claiming the whole region of Syria, and is opponent to Ba'athist Syria, North Syria Federation, Army of Conquest and to Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant.GreyShark (dibra) 13:57, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Such an article already exists, under the lemma Syrian National Coalition. This article here should rather present all the various major groups/institutions in opposition to the Assad regime on an equal footing, as well as component and minor ones, and give the reader an overview of encyclopedic value. -- 2A1ZA (talk) 18:15, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Then we need to link the green colour of the Syrian Civil War map to another place.

@Ermanarich Absolutely. Link it to Syrian National Coalition. -- 2A1ZA (talk) 18:18, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Update Map

Someone might want to update the map soon. -78.171.130.160 (talk) 21:30, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 28 August 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) Regards, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga (talk • mail) 00:32, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

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Syrian opposition → Syrian Arab Republic (Opposition) – This article is summing up the political-geographic-military structure, including the Syrian National Coalition-Syrian Interim Government-Syrian Revolutionary Command Council system, which is functioning as a presidential republic in parallel to Ba'athist Syrian Republic. Syrian Opposition is not only forming an alternative government to Assad's cabinet, but also an alternative army, alternative symbols (flag, etc.), separate territory, alternative finances, alternative political system, and having a seat at the Arab League. This is becoming more and more similar to separation of South Korea and North Korea, both claiming the whole Korean peninsula and each naming itself Korean Republic (South=Republic of Korea and North=Democratic People's Republic of Korea). With already 5 years passing since the onset of the war and having Assad's Syrian Arab Republic still existing and somewhat functioning, but in parallel also having several other entities emerging on former Syrian territories - one of which is the Syrian Opposition. The Opposition is naming itself the "Syrian Arab Republic" (see [1]). GreyShark (dibra) 14:32, 28 August 2016 (UTC) --Relisting. No such user (talk) 07:15, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose. First and foremost, the proposed title violates WP:COMMONNAME. Then, it violates WP:PRECISION. The article is not structured as a country/government article. "Becoming more and more similar to separation of South Korea and North Korea" is pretty far-fetched, as the opposition does not seem nowhere near to establish a functional state. The scope of this article is pretty vague, which is well-represented by the current vague title, as there are National Coalition for Syrian Revolutionary and Opposition Forces and Syrian National Council for more structured organizations within the "opposition" umbrella movement. No such user (talk) 07:15, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose simpler, common title is fine. Ribbet32 (talk) 20:23, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose. It is not a state, because there is no unanimous/functioning government, no defined borders (constantly changing), infighting (political and military). There are a lot of groups that are fighting against Assad but have nothing else in common. Would support a change to "Opposition groups in the Syrian Civil War" to make the title not misleading by suggesting the opposition to Assad is unified miliatrily or politically. Finally, the opposition does not universally claim the name Syrian Arab Republic, Facebook posts from one out of the many groups is not credible evidence --MarkiPoli (talk) 16:43, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

This article needs overhaul to become a NPOV overview article over all factions and institutions in opposition to the Assad regime in Syria

This article needs complete overhaul to become a valuable and NPOV article. In its current form, actually a simple redirect to Syrian National Coalition would be fine. However, the "Syrian opposition" article must not present this one faction/institution as the opposition to the Assad regime in Syria, but present such opposition in all its diversity. Not only must major factions like the jihadis or the Syrian Democratic Council be included on an equal footing with the Syrian National Coalition, but also component groups as well as independent groups like Syria's Tomorrow Movement be listed and presented. There is no article in Wikipedia to give an NPOV overview over the most diverse factions and institutions in opposition the the Assad regime in Syria, and this would be its most natural place. -- 2A1ZA (talk) 18:05, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Article Syrian opposition originated on 6Dec2011, when main article 2011 Syrian uprising (which would evolve into art. Syrian civil war) did not yet have a separate section listing all opposition groups. Nevertheless, already at the beginning, this art. Syrian opposition was total fantasy of one editor, and vague propaganda specifically for Syrian National Council.

In the 4½ years since then, it apparently has evolved into propaganda for mainly the Syrian National Coalition. Ofcourse we should as quickly as possible remove such propaganda from Wikipedia. Main article SCW since quite sometime has its section 4 ‘Belligerents’, in which §4.2 through §4.5 lists several Syrian opposition forces, and section 5 ‘Political opposition’ which lists Syrian National Council and Syrian National Coalition. Those together naturally form the total Syrian opposition, in literal sense. To end this misleading propaganda, the simplest action is to make this article a REDIRECT to Syrian civil war#Syrian Opposition — which is actually §4.2 of SCW, which is followed by all other opposition forces and groups. --Corriebertus (talk) 16:06, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Lead should be rewritten

The lead section and the infobox describe the Syrian opposition as a single political entity. It isn't, it's an umbrella term for a number of political entities (such as the Syrian National Coalition and its interim government), parties and militant factions. Does anyone else agree? Charles Essie (talk) 19:14, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

It is indeed an umbrella for various Syrian political and military groups, which are however united in some form. As most immature geopolitical structures it takes time for a state system to evolve and unite political groups into a single government and parliament and military groups into a single army. The oppositional High Negotiations Committee alliance is sufficiently defining who are affiliated with the opposition. At this point we should probably differentiate "Syrian opposition" (including most non-regime Syrian War participants) and "Syrian Opposition" (defined by the HNC framework).GreyShark (dibra) 11:04, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Map needs to be updated/removed

The map urgently needs to be adjusted to reflect the new situation. The areas in Idlib province are no longer under Syrian National Council control but under the Syrian Salvation government. Furthermore the areas in Quneitra province are under the Assad government since July last year, leaving just the al-Tanf region under opposition control with virtually no populated areas. So either the map can be removed or, what I believe to be better, the Turkish administered areas in Afrin, Azaz and Jarabulus are included. Jarabulus is even the de facto capital as it says in the article, yet this region is not included in the map...LyriaSiders (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:23, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

I have added a different, color coded, map including the Turkish-Interim and Salvation-HTS regionsThespündragon 01:07, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

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MfD nomination of Portal:Syrian Civil War

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