Talk:Stalking Cat

Talk page archive: Archive 1

Cause of death

As someone who respects stalking cat's traditions ( and knew him) PLEASE DO NOT list any "cause" of death. No cause was given to ANYONE from the public for a reason. Please respect that. This article from OCWeekly goes over that towards the end. http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/2012/11/dennis_avner_stalking_cat.php SiriusKarma (talk) 22:06, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

I don't think Wikipedia has respect for any traditions except its own. GreenReaper (talk) 22:32, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Well Wiki is about citing sources. When it comes to this can can say with full confidence that no one outside the family besides myself and one other knows "cause" of death. So no, declaring it is "known" because people made guesses doesn't mean it's right or accurate. Come on Wiki, seriously. I agree with you Greenreaper, as I am currently in debate over a page here on wiki since the Iroquois people do not want it here. I've seen blatant disregard for religion/culture of Native people here a few times. SiriusKarma (talk) 00:31, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

There are dozens of news sites that use the term "suicide" to describe the cause of death. SiriusKarma you have a blatant disregard for wiki standards, you can not use your own opinions as research, even if you claim to have "seen" or "know" someone, it has to be documented and reliably sourced. First person sourcing is not allowed on Wikipedia, even if the person the article is about were to want to state something, it has to be sourced outside of wikipedia.

I find it hypocritical when people want to recognize someone, a.i., establish them as well known enough to be on wikipedia, to focus on the good, but then try to hush hush "Oh no, can't let people know this about him, that's bad". That's a double standard. If you don't want people to know he committed suicide, then delete the entire page. You can't have it both ways. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.198.26.192 (talk) 13:52, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Why did you make an edit stating that there were "numerous sources" to support your assertion, but fail to include any sources? Just Tidying Up (talk) 14:21, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Hey unsigned user, I am Octavia Wolfe mentioned in that OCWeekly article. It is stated that this request is being done for religious reasons, as well as the public never being told anything. Again, speculation does not mean something is fact. Period. Nye County NEVER released the information to media or the public. At least they have some decency. So I have provided you with source. There is zero confirmed cause of death for Stalking Cat. It's all speculation. As I stated above... only a very few people know. As according to wiki standards you need a source stating cause to place cause here. SiriusKarma — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.231.23.85 (talk) 07:52, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

I've removed the bit about the incorrect cause of death. I'm also standing by the statement that for religious reasons any sort of speculation or posted cause is not correct for this page. Octavia Wolfe/Sirius Karma — Preceding unsigned comment added by SiriusKarma (talk • contribs) 22:42, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, but Wikipedia's guidelines don't allow for this. Please do not remove this information again. 71.55.141.143 (talk) 05:25, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia doesn't have any policy supporting the idea that a reliably sourced opinion about the cause of death should be removed for religious reasons. The suicide conclusion should stay just as it is, sourced and attributed. Binksternet (talk) 05:59, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

I don't think it was suicide. He was a Native American rights activist. Do the math. 2600:8805:3A00:E200:4832:CBEF:A603:1C30 (talk) 01:48, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Please provide a reliable source, or any source, really, for him being "a Native American rights activist". You seem to be suggesting he was killed. I am unaware of evidence for either of these claims. - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 02:17, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

For what little it's worth, while I don't have any on hand and I don't care to look them up at the moment, there are interviews of him claiming to be a Native American, and advocating for Native American rights. Though I am very skeptical of the implied "therefore he was murdered." The way the general public saw him, he would not have been a sufficient threat to the interests of anybody that's against Native American rights to warrant murdering. The most contribution he was really capable of (since very few people took him seriously) would be adding 1 to the number of people at a protest or whatever. People don't just turn up dead after merely being present to help add to numbers. 2601:CA:8501:7C50:4018:2D63:E53:9169 (talk) 15:01, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

No one has offered any evidence of his having Native American heritage, nor has any evidence been forthcoming that he had any involvement in any Native American commmunity or activism. His claims simply do not make sense. This looks to be a fantasy spread solely among non-Natives, and passed on by those who don't know how easy it is to verify or rule out these claims. Indian Country is actually a very small place. Even at a large, multi-ethnic, public protest, someone with his unusual appearance would stand out, be noticed and remembered. And most likely photographed and posted on social media, as well. If his claims were true, we'd have found evidence by now. - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 19:13, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Major rewrite

Hello, I'm Just Tidying Up. I performed a major overhaul of this article last month; see before and after. I'd like to ask for help with continuing to expand and improve the Stalking Cat article.

The section about the time SC spent in Washington with Tess and Rick is probably the strongest, because it was covered in a detailed article. Some areas that could use expansion are:

• His childhood
• His adult life before undergoing the transformations
• The experiences that inspired him to undergo the physical transformation
• The time he spent in California
• The time he spent in Nevada at the end of his life

There are multiple sources which have not been fully plumbed, particularly the audio interviews. I would like to invite others to work on expanding this article. If you have sources, I encourage you to list them here, in the "potential sources" section below. Also if you knew SC or if you know of others who knew him, please invite them to participate. Thank you. Just Tidying Up (talk) 14:38, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

I will also say: looking at the chronology, there are gaps. The section on Stalking Cat's early adulthood drops off in the early 80s, and the story does not pick up again until the mid-2000s. There's a gap of about 25 years (from Stalking Cat's early 20s to his late 40s) where there is no coverage in the article. I would greatly appreciate help finding and sourcing information for this gap, and for the other bullet points listed above. Thank you. Just Tidying Up (talk) 15:31, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

As far as childhood goes, they mention having an abusive step-father in The World's... and Me. Other than that, I wish I knew more as well, especially on matters where there seem to be some contradictions (some obits referred to Cat as transgender yet still used male pronouns; Shannon Larratt mentioned something about Cat being in Vietnam despite enlisting after the US had pulled out of Vietnam). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.46.98.220 (talk) 06:32, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Potential sources

Please list viable sources here, particularly those that are unused or underused. Just Tidying Up (talk) 14:38, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Gender identity

Regarding recent edits by Cattybrie (talk · contribs) regarding Stalking Cat's gender identity, are there any reliable sources to back up the notion that Avner was transgendered? All of the sources currently cited in the article (some of which discuss his body alterations at length) refer to him in the male gender. Only a single source indicates that his alterations were modeled after a female tiger. A single statement in one source is pretty weak alongside numerous other sources that refer to him as male without raising his gender identity. Also, for what it's worth, I met Avner a couple of times several years before he died and did not get the impression he was anything other than a cis-gendered male. --mwalimu59 (talk) 19:51, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Sourcing

Clearly this person was a kind, gentle, and beloved member of many communities, and is greatly missed. Stalking Cat was clearly notable. But we have several problems with this article from a Wikipedia standpoint. For someone who was covered fairly extensively in popular culture, many of the sources here are blogs, or only sourced to one person's personal statements or opinions. I am going to have to cut some of the details here for this article to meet WP/encyclopedic standards - unless and until reliable sourcing can be found. Friends of this person, please don't take it personally; this is a policy issue about sourcing. I will be detailed in my edit summaries. Please see WP:RS and WP:IRS. I encourage writers interested in this person's life to seek other publishing venues if you want to explore the things we can't host here. - CorbieV ^☊ ☼ 18:18, 15 November 2017 (UTC)