Talk:Spartak Moscow–Dynamo Kyiv rivalry

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Requested move 25 September 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Consensus to not move. (closed by non-admin page mover) SITH (talk) 13:20, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Spartak Moscow–Dynamo Kyiv rivalry → Spartak Moscow–Dynamo Kyiv derby – (Neutral nomination.) This appears to be an undiscussed move by User:Abcmaxx back in 2015 (diff here) with the WP:ES "not really a derby", but that seems too long ago reasonably to take to WP:RM/TR. The article title and infobox say "derby", so either those should be changed to "rivalry", or the page should be moved back. The lede states that "The contest emerged as a derby in 1976". 85.238.91.38 (talk) 03:34, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose change in title. "Derby" denotes a rivalry in close geographic proximity (often within same city or at least same district). The article text should be edited to keep "rivalry" consistent. That said, I notice that some local news outlets call this the "Soviet derby" in the local language (Ukrainian & Russian), even if it doesn't comply with the common English-language usage of the term "derby". The phrase "Soviet derby" can be acknowledged somewhere in the text (even the lede), but it should not be the article title. Walrasiad (talk) 08:50, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Honestly, I don't even remember nominating this. I think it is fine as it is, but keep the redirect and it would not be out of place to call it a "derby"; after all at the time it was one country (Soviet Union), and Barca-Real, Lech-Legia, Dynamo K.-Shakhtar D., Olimpia L.-Maribor, Feyenoord-Ajax are all derbies in their respective countries despite the cities in question being some distance away. Back when Yugoslavia existed Hajduk or Dinamo Z vs. Red Star or Partizan were fierce Yugoslav derbies, but since its dissolution the clubs rarely meet; although I am sure if they were to do so there would be extreme and quite raw tensions still to this day; same applies here. Abcmaxx (talk) 14:13, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Shouldn't it be Spartak Moscow–Dynamo Kiev rivalry anyway? After all its Moscow not Moskva and Kiev not Kyiv in English.Abcmaxx (talk) 14:17, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Nearly all your examples are not called "derby" but "rivalry" here (or given a special name, like "Classic", El Clásico, Der Klassiker, De Klassieker, O Clássico). In common English language usage, the term "derby" is usually reserved within a city or district (North London derby, Madrid Derby, Munich derby, Rome derby, Belgrade derby, etc.). I realize usage in some Eastern European languages is slightly different, and "derby" is used more elastically than in English. But the terms "rivalry" and "derby" are used distinctively here, where the term "derby" is nearly always attached to a local geographical location, usually a single city, e.g. Manchester derby (for Man U vs. Man City) and Merseyside derby (for Liverpool vs. Everton), in contrast to Liverpool F.C.–Manchester United F.C. rivalry. Even if you go to large geographical area, the "derby" term should be attached to the geography rather than the teams. So for this case, it is either "Spartak-Dynamo rivalry" or "Soviet derby", but not "Spartak-Dynamo derby". (As to your second comment, there's been a name change in Kiev/Kyiv just a few days ago) Walrasiad (talk) 14:55, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. Giant Snowman 19:32, 26 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - as 'derby' is used to refer to two local teams, so 'rivalry' is correct here. Instead move to FC Spartak Moscow–FC Dynamo Kyiv rivalry to match correct article names. Giant Snowman 19:35, 26 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.