Talk:Simon Ekpa/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Semi-protected edit request on 4 February 2023

The person who created this is an evil person seeking to defame the real Mazi Simon Ekpa. This page should be taken down. Iwunna (talk) 15:54, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

Yes remove this page it is defamatory Iwunna (talk) 15:56, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 16:07, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 February 2023 (2)

Simon is a freedom fighter and has never incited violence in South East Nigeria. Oluwapikin (talk) 20:16, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

Yes he is never inciting any violence Ebuka19 (talk) 21:05, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: there's not much point making edit requests about a contentious issues that has recently been the subject of an edit war, unless you have any new material to bring to the discussion. small jars tc 21:20, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 February 2023

Under Personal life "Change Ekpa is married with a child.[1]" to Under Personal life "Ekpa is married to a Finnish woman with a child.[1]" UniBrill (talk) 21:00, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

Yes,Ekpa is married to Finnish woman with a child. UniBrill (talk) 21:04, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. 💜  melecie  talk - 01:30, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Current lead problematic per WP:LEAD

Quote "He is chiefly known for spreading fake news and allegedly inciting violence in southeastern Nigeria." Nothing about that in the rest of the article. Haven't checked if sources are WP:BLP-good or if they support the content. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:04, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

Agreed, it is problematic. It doesn't actually properly explain what he's notable for, and I don't think it's fully WP:NPOV compliant. This especially isn't how biographies of living people should be written Tristario (talk) 22:46, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

It has been removed by me. Please feel free to edit as deem fit. Got to know of these through some Nigerian news sites. HandsomeBoy (talk) 18:19, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

Freedom Fighter

A freedom fighter seeking for the libration of the Biafra people that are killed on daily bases by the Nigerian government — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.205.113.153 (talk) 10:50, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

Simon Epka has millons of followers because he is the spokes person of the Biafra people, the Biafra people are seeking for independence from Nigeria 129.205.113.153 (talk) 10:53, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

Simon Ekpa

Simon Ekpa is not spreading fake News, everything he's saying in his lectures can be provenir with facts and figures. I want to express my concern about tarnishing a repurtation of a respectful citizen of Finland, who has been doing Fantastic Job on many different fields, including human rights activism. Please correct your article about his News, it is obvious that the person who wrote the article about him haven't done any research on his News. 85.76.147.26 (talk) 20:56, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

I agree with you that the "spreading fake news" in the lede is a far reach, hence I removed the text. However, I also think you are from the opposite side patronizing him. As a neutral, I agree the text was not appropriate.HandsomeBoy (talk) 18:22, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

A biased view

The references cited are based and unreliable 86.30.125.75 (talk) 08:59, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

It is not so much about the reference, it is more about writing a balanced article and the ability of the article creator and content contributors to do adequate research. Simon Ekpa is a controversial figure with strong viewpoints so I can understand why sources may sound biased at different times depends on the political atmosphere.HandsomeBoy (talk) 23:42, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 April 2023

Prime Minister of Biafra Republic Government In-Exile www.biafrarepublicgov.org Leke23 (talk) 07:18, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Lightoil (talk) 07:41, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

No neutrality in many Nigeria News Media especially on Simon Ekpa and Biafra

It almost impossible to be neutral in writing about Simon Ekpa especially when sources are from Nigeria government controlled Media. So, the sources must based on fact from the content of media report.

Example, the Nigeria media always reported that Ekpa is self styled Prime Minister, this is false and misleading. Ekpa was voted by Biafrans in zoom Biafra cabinet meeting and currently Biafrans are loyal to him than they are to the government of Nigeria which is the reason he call for sit at home and millions of Biafrans obey him even when the governors cancel it, the people obey Ekpa. This link is the latest which was widely reported by almost all news media https://dailypost.ng/2023/06/05/sit-at-home-ekpa-knocks-mbah-claims-governor-disgraced/ also read "But the Finland based leader of the autopilot, an arm of the Indigenous People of Biafra, IPoB, Simon Ekpa responded to Governor Mbah with a matching threat, saying that no Nigeria government operates in Biafra land and insisted that the Monday sit-at-home must continue to be observed in the seven Igbo-speaking states of south east and south-south." https://www.vanguardngr.com/2023/06/enugu-residents-ignore-gov-mbahs-order-observe-ipobs-sit-at-home/ The point here is that, the Wikipedia profile of Ekpa should rightfully edited as the Prime Minister of the Biafra Republic Government In-Exile that is fact and neutral. Also i can see that the website of the government is already on the wikipedia page, so addressing him as a self styled Prime Minister is not neutral rather the language of the opposition to downgrade him and the movement. 2001:14BA:5E25:9E00:A8A5:321F:6C45:7195 (talk) 11:07, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

I have seen both "self-described" and "is" in sources [1][2], if any of these are very WP:RS is harder to say. We'll have to do the best we can with the sources we got. Per WP:BLP, no decent source, no content, and WP:ABOUTSELF sources like Biafra Republic Government in Exile has little weight. Better sources may appear in the future. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:37, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

It would be interesting to see some good WP:RS on the Biafra Republic Government in Exile, they may have on-WP use somewhere. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:03, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

Noting old afd Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Biafra Republic Government in Exile here, and there been other attempts to make that article:[3] Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:42, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 June 2023

I appeal that you please review my last edits on article Simon Ekpa. The intro is obviously misleading as Simon Ekpa is not and have never called himself Leader of Biafra independence movement. Check out the references in the article and you notice that he describes himself as the Disciple of Nnamdi Kanu. Please re-review ASAP to maintain a clear information.

The page has been protected and therefore I can't edit it again but I 105.112.224.1 (talk) 18:29, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Actualcpscm (talk) 19:01, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

Noting

Ekpa-realted discussion at Talk:List_of_Donald_Trump_2024_presidential_campaign_primary_endorsements#Simon_Ekpa. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:27, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Note to people trying to add an image

WP and Commons are both very careful about copyright. It's a pain, but it's how it is.

At Commons you can, basically, upload pictures you have taken yourself with your own camera. So the "simple" solution is to take a new, previously unpublished anywhere, picture of Ekpa and upload it yourself on Commons. If something like the pic here [4] is to be used on Commons/WP, you have to get the photographer to follow the directions at Commons:Volunteer Response Team. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:42, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Leke23, you uploaded 2 pics of Ekpa [5] as "own work". "Own work" in this context means "I took these pictures myself with my own camera." Did you do that, or did you just upload them anyway? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:22, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång I really don’t know what your interests are on @Simon Ekpathat you hated everything about him as you admitted previously, yet you are allowed to edit profile of someone you admitted you have problem with. I uploaded the image and claimed ownership of the work, are you in the position to dispute my submission. Are you the copyright owner or claiming the copyright of my own work? Why would you remove my work? Did anyone claim the ownership? You are just so immature and very bias. You removed my work and started to educate me on the meaning of ownership? Ridiculous, please put the image back, it is my own work. If you continue this, i will appeal for your removal as you have demonstrated clearly that you are very biased and have problems with Ekpa and yet editing his Wikipedia page. Leke23 (talk) 09:53, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

So you are saying you are the photographer of these two 2 pictures. Very well, that means that Wikipedia:Conflict of interest applies to you, and you should not edit this article. And since you state you are the photographer, the guidance at Commons:But it's my own work! is there for you. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:02, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

You are the person with conflict of interest and should be restricted by saying you have problems with Ekpa being in the list and you have removed the International politicians from the list, how disgusting could it be to be hating someone who doesn’t know you and you are not even ashamed to edit his profile Leke23 (talk) 22:19, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

It is also interesting that one of the pics you state is your own work is watermarked "Susa Dosa". Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:26, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Noting also that this pic [6] that keeps being added as "Official 2023 portrait" has been online since 2017:[7]. Ping to SuperMarioMan and Bbb23 if you're interested. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:25, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Your claims may be false or true hence it can't be proven. The fact remains that the image was first seen by me, 1st Contributor on Flick while doing research. l am just a committed contributor that wanted to help. Thanks for your understanding dear Gråberbs Gråa Sång.  1st Contributor (talk) 04:50, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

So you don't think I just proved that pic has been online since 2017. Great. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 05:40, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

I must sincerely apologize for not previously seeing the link attached. I have just confirmed it now. So, what's the way since it is imperative? 1st Contributor (talk) 05:52, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

Translation of Finnish article

The Finnish language article is good and well researched imo. I encourage somebody translates material from it. As an example, the finnish article elaborates more on Ekpa law studies, that he has taken law courses, worked in his wifes law firm, but is not legally able to practise law as a lawyer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kennet.mattfolk (talk • contribs) 19:29, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

As long as it's in the en-WP WP:BLP-manner, go ahead. Don't "bring over" unsourced or poorly sourced content. WP:ABOUTSELF stuff have very limited use. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:39, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

Well, I wrote already most of the "According to reporting by Yle [...]" section under the header life. I struggled to translate many of the legal terms involved, so I stuck to the stuff I knew to translate. It would be easy to miss-translate terms that are clear in Finnish, but not so for me in English and then get a misinterpreted view of Mr. Ekpa. I try to be as exact and as sourced as I can personally, but feel somebody else with a better English legal terminology etc. would be better to translate the more advanced material. Example of terms I find hard to translate into english is "Ulosotto", "perintä", when involving Ekpa's business that went defunct. In the finnish section explaining Ekpa's law studies and him not actually being a lawyer, I wouldn't know how to explain the difference "asianajaja", "lupalakimies", in Finnish I understand these, but in English I would translate both as "lawyer". The sources are good on Finnish wiki, just need to translate it. Kennet.mattfolk (talk) 14:58, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

Major changes coming to this article page soonest.

Hello revered Adminatrators,

With utmost respect, l want to use this medium to bring to your attention the upcoming major changes to this article page coming up in days time. I will be rephrasing, changing some section titles, adding relevant sections and also translating some relevant Finnish news media (in regards to this article) to English language as demanded by Gråberbs Gråa Sång. My attention has been drawn to the article expansion template and with this brief clarification, l and hopefully other editors of 'Political interest' shall take it all up from here as we modify the article. Other editors who which to join me in this journey should do well to join as we improve the article together.

Thanks to you all!

1st Contributor (talk) 06:02, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

@1st Contributor, do so in good faith; unconstructive promotional phrases and heading titles will be reverted. Best, Reading Beans (talk) 07:23, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Always on my mind. 1st Contributor (talk) 18:57, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

As long as you follow WP:BLP, WP:CTOP and other relevant policies and guidelines, things may be well. I don't remember "demanded" but it's probably not important. Perhaps @Kennet.mattfolk will be interested in taking a look as things progress.

If I may offer some advice: Don't do everything at once, since this has been a difficult subject, in more places than this article. Give other editors a fair chance to react. Do one section, then wait a couple of days, see if anything happens, discuss as necessary, then proceed with another. And last of all, look at the WP:LEAD if necessary, since it's supposed to be a summary of the rest of the article.

One question: Do you have a Wikipedia:Conflict of interest regarding Simon Ekpa? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:53, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Sure I can eye the during the next few days and pitch in if I feel I have something to add/improve. @1st Contributor how are you translating the Finnish material? If you use google translate, then beware that it tends to translate correctly but sometimes with losing the connotations of phrases, terms and words. Personally I'm not too fumiliar with the legal jarggon to attempt translation. :) Kennet.mattfolk (talk) 10:49, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

I have read through and understood every of your concerns. I'm committed to abiding by Wikipedia rules, policies and guidelines on editing. Without emotions attached, l promise to heed to every counsel here. I see you as a mentor Gråberbs Gråa. Remember, no emotions attached.

In regards to the question: "I don't have any conflict of interest as l am just a dedicated Wikipedian that focuses more on politics In the world"

Thanks for your understanding. I shall now commence! 1st Contributor (talk) 19:03, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Link to updated information found on the internet

I submit this link here for Adminatrators and other editors to see it before it will be added under the newly created section "Activism". I really don't want to disrupt the due course of editing here. I hope this gets well to you, @Gråbergs Gråa Sång. 1st Contributor (talk) 00:25, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

My view: It's hard to tell the WP:RS-ness of sources like these. Is it like an "ordinary newspaper" or is it more like someones WP:BLOG? If they have an about-page (sometimes that helps), I didn't find it. Editors may come to different conclusions. And context matters, do you consider it "high-quality" per WP:BLP? It's not used a lot on WP [8], which can mean several things. WP:RSN may be of help, afaict it hasn't been discussed there before. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:49, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

It's not a blog. 1st Contributor (talk) 11:17, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Possible WP:COPYPASTE problem

[9]. However, at least some of it may be a Template:Backwards copy thing. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:03, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Add Simon Ekpa's image to the article

Hello, distinguished editors,

There's an image found on Flickr that needs to be added to the article page. Here is the link. The image has never been seen elsewhere. This page is protected and that's the reason I can't add it myself. Can an editor help add it? Licenced (talk) 05:19, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

@Licenced, upload it to Commons then, I'll add it here. Best, Reading Beans (talk) 06:57, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

Now that's interesting. Per previous uploads of pictures of Ekpa, the question arises if it's reasonable to assume the uploader is who they say the are, or if this is more FLICKRWASHING. It's not very common that an org would put it's own logo in the public domain, like the flickr-uploader is on-the-face-of-it doing. FYI ping to @Yann and @Elcobbola. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:59, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

Out of curiosity, have you used other WP-accounts, and if so, which ones? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:05, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

Also, was it you who put the images on flickr? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:49, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

I confirmed Licenced to be a Unibrill sock, along with WondersShallNeverEnd which had already uploaded the image and was also proxying here, and blocked both about two hours before your ping above. Why are we feeding the trolls? Эlcobbola _talk 12:46, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

Hope springs eternal? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:49, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

FYI-ping to @Borgenland, in case you wonder what that was about. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:04, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

I do wonder why I got dragged into this out of nowhere. Dealing with images and Wikimedia Commons is not exactly my forte. Borgenland (talk) 13:07, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

Well, you did so admirably in this case. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:25, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

I was trying my best to be polite to a stranger. Now come to think of it, I think someone may have remembered me when Ekpa was dragged into the 2023 Nigerien crisis which I was heavily involved in at the time. Borgenland (talk) 13:43, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

@Elcobbola, @Gråbergs Gråa Sång,

All of your concerns are well noted. In all sincerity, l am directly affiliated with Biafra Republic Government in Exile organization. I was directly informed by Simon Ekpa to add the image they uploaded on Flickr to Wikipedia/Wikimedia. I work for him and Biafra Republic Government in Exile.If you do your thorough research on the media, you will find out that image never existed anywhere prior to it's upload on Flickr on 7th of September 2023. I was directly authorized to add the image but to COI and page protection, l couldn't. I will inform them about the development that l have been blocked and see how they will react. Licenced (talk) 15:42, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

@Borgenland@Reading Beans

Maybe, Simon Ekpa himself will assign a new user to add the image on Wikimedia. I have tried my best and I give up! Licenced (talk) 15:47, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

Are you saying you tried to hire me to do work for a political organization under false pretenses? You do know Wikipedia has very serious rules on that. I am afraid I would have to report you to ANI. Borgenland (talk) 16:18, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

@Licenced Then you should check Commons:Volunteer Response Team/Commons:Wikimedia VRT release generator. Good luck. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:25, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

Gråbergs Gråa Sång, what part of WP:DFTT is unclear to you? This is a sock. Stop engaging with them. They have sent fraudulent VRT tickets in the past; all you are doing is encouraging them to continue wasting other user's time (copyright vests in the author (photographer), not the subject--correspondence from Ekpa is thus utterly meaningless, as they've been advised.) Consider also reading WP:RBI and WP:BEANS; your engagement with them is disruptive. Эlcobbola _talk 17:25, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

For natural reasons, I'm unaware of fraudulent VRT tickets, though I have made related deletion requests on Commons. From my POV, I'm reasonably within AGF, hoping a properly uploaded picture will appear at some point. The issue is also at ANI atm. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:37, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

Again, what part of WP:DFTT is unclear to you? You know, or have reason to believe, they are dishonest and concoct bogus licenses--that is what license laundering is. Any reasonable, thinking person would know a suggestion "check VRT" would be merely offloading fraudulent nonsense to others ("all you are doing is encouraging them to continue wasting other user's time")--no specific knowledge ("I'm unaware of fraudulent VRT tickets") is needed. WP:AGF, which you appear also not to have read, begins with "Unless there is clear evidence to the contrary" (bold in original). If you are ignorant of a subject ("For natural reasons, I'm unaware"), do not offer an opinion. Stop encouraging this user. Эlcobbola _talk 17:55, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

I don't know that the stuff at [10] is bogus, but per history I was suspicious, and so pinged you etc. And if you can point me to where on Commons I can read about the fraudulent Ekpa VRT tickets, I'm interested. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:07, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

Consider rereading my preceding comment, and WP:IDHT. Эlcobbola _talk 18:09, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

It didn't help much. I think we're done on this particular discussion. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:14, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

The image is not bogus. You can thoroughly crosscheck before conclusion. @Gråbergs Gråa Sång, the former image being uploaded according to history isn't the same on Flickr. The image was taken by Simon Ekpa on 7th July 2023. As a matter of fact, l have messaged him to assign another person to upload the image here. So, when it happens, don't misconstrue. I am officially putting @Elcobbola on notice to please keep an eye. WondersShallNeverEnd (talk) 18:18, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

In all these, all editors should please consider the very fact that what I am doing is help improve the article page by adding image of Simon Ekpa. At least, readers would want to know his physical appearance all other Wikipedia articles have images. So, please consider! I have erred on my own part but please don't transfer the consequences of my action to another user who will be adding the same image found on Flickr. I am interested to stay! WondersShallNeverEnd (talk) 18:23, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

Request to add Simon Ekpa's portrait

Fugabus (talk) 22:04, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: Please make your request for a new image to be uploaded to Files For Upload. Once the file has been properly uploaded, feel free to reactivate this request to have the new image used. Tollens (talk) 23:11, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Dear Tollens,

Thanks for giving me your sincere attention. The image has already been uploaded on commons and consequently approved by VRT. Here is the image link on commons, https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Simon_Ekpa_portrait,_2023.jpg

Thanks for your help!Tollens,

/commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Simon_Ekpa_portrait,_2023.jpg 31.21.174.34 (talk) 21:15, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Nationality

Simon Ekpa is not a Nigerian. Simon Ekpa is a Biafran. 24.41.6.0 (talk) 02:47, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

I think that's more ethnicity per MOS:INFONAT, but opinions may differ. Per the "September 2023" discussion above, it may be a good idea to remove it from the infobox for simplicity. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:42, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Change of Nationality

Change "Nigerian to Biafran". Simon Ekpa have long denounced Nigeria and technically, he's not a Nigerian by Nationality and in view of establishing a government-in-exile, he's logically and technically a Biafran by Nationality. I will submit more detailed information and sources where he denounced being a Nigerian in the Talk page. Fugabus (talk) 10:09, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Fugabus, Biafra is not a country. Best, Reading Beans (talk) 10:24, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Ekpa|answered=no}} Fugabus (talk) 10:35, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Change of Nationality Request

It's an established fact that Simon Ekpa has denounced Nigeria as found from different sources here:

https://punchng.com/ipob-ex-nigerian-athlete-simon-ekpa-to-return-medal-gives-reasons/

https://dailypost.ng/2021/09/12/biafra-ex-nigerian-athlete-ekpa-vows-to-return-medals-won-for-country/

https://headtopics.com/ng/ipob-ex-nigerian-athlete-simon-ekpa-to-return-medal-gives-reasons-punch-newspapers-21749020

https://www.naijagist.com/forum/index.php/topic,97526.0.html

https://newswirengr.com/2021/09/12/ex-nigerian-athlete-vows-to-return-awards-medals-in-solidarity-with-ipobs-agitation/

Sources are just numerous. I can't drop all the links here to curtail spam.

I believe with this, it has been rightfully established that Simon Ekpa is not a Nigerian. He's a Biafran by Nationality in view of the technicality of having a government-in-exile. Make a research about government-in-exile and you will come in terms with me that he's a Biafran. It's even ridiculous to call him a Nigerian when he has denounced Nigeria and fighting against Nigeria. Biafra was a partially recognized state and Biafra Republic Government in Exile is established and assumes full legal rights as a country. I will continue to say, check government-in-exile:

https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Government_in_exile.

So, with this few points of mine, l have been able to establish that Simon is not a Nigerian but a Biafran by Nationality logically, legally and check. Thanks all. Fugabus (talk) 10:39, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Simon Ekpa is not a Nigerian, he's a Biafran

Simon Ekpa is not a Nigerian, he's a Biafran and serving the Biafra people as the prime minister of the Biafra Republic Government In Exile. 213.184.126.132 (talk) 17:43, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

September 2023

In my recent edit, I changed the Biafran to Nigerian (I honestly think that this parameter should be removed entirely). Ekpa was born in 1985, so how's he a citizen of a country that ceased to exist before his birth? The Whistler is a reliable source but how did they arrive at 70%? No one has questioned that no other source says this because it is in favour of the subject of the article? Best, Reading Beans (talk) 06:56, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

That makes sense to me. You can argue that Biafran is an ethnicity, but Nationality was the asked-for param. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:09, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

I opine that the Nationality parameter should be removed. Let their be only citizenship. Simon Ekpa doesn't identify Nigeria to be his nationality hence, it should be removed in it's entirety. I will be removing it. Fugabus (talk) 11:07, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

Fugabus, I am not afraid to say that you might be a sock or engaging in meat-puppetry. Myself and every other editor on this thread are volunteers and mighty we choose not to do what you have asked us to. His nationality is Nigeria and citizenship is Finland. I think that should be it. Best, Reading Beans (talk) 12:28, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

BLP Noticeboard re: Simon Ekpa

Please see the discussion at Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Simon_Ekpa regarding Ekpa's nationality. EvergreenFir (talk) 14:58, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 October 2023

Change "Indigenous People of Biafra" to "Biafra Republic Government in Exile" That should be his formal organization under "organization parameter" in infobox. Fugabus (talk) 16:51, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

The organization has now metamorphosed from "Indigenous People of Biafra" to Biafra Republic Government in Exile since the establishment of a government-in-exile.

This is one source here: https://www.icirnigeria.org/ekpa-declares-self-biafra-prime-minister-in-exile-names-advisory-council/ Fugabus (talk) 17:02, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Ekpa giving himself that position won't cut it. Philroc (talk) 08:29, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

These are some few sources for confirmation and also take note of the dates of the events:

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2023/10/biafra-liberation-army-resistance-fighters-will-protect-igbos-in-southeast-simon-ekpa/amp/

https://dailypost.ng/2023/10/19/simon-ekpa-hosts-three-day-extraordinary-conference-on-biafra-referendum/

https://ibireport.com/simon-ekpa-pulls-massive-crowd-at-biafran-self-referendum-convention-in-finland/

https://nigeriannewssphere.com/brgie-adopts-charter-on-biafra-declaration-in-helsinki-finland/

https://platinumpost.ng/2023/10/21/biafra-cameroon-separatist-group-ambazonia-strike-deal-in-finland-photos/

I believe that these few reliable sources has been able to convince you that his organization is "Biafra Republic Government in Exile"? Fugabus (talk) 22:00, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

It has been while like 3 days l requested the page edit on. I have provided every sources and yet not response. Fugabus (talk) 11:02, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

WP:LEAD

There is some recent back-and-forthing (welcome, new editor!) on if the lead/infobox should call him politician or political activist (Do we do both? It's not mutually exclusive). Opinions, editors? What do WP:RS Finnish sources say? I think per sources like [11][12] "political activist" fits pretty well. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:30, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Local Finnish News calls a Politician and not a Political activist. I think we should stick to that. Yle Olivia Harry (talk) 19:48, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

BBC says "controversial leader of a Nigerian secessionist movement". "Politician" is one way to rephrase that, but it's not optimal. "Political activist and Finnish local politician" perhaps? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:04, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Noting 2

Recent editor Olivia Harry has shockingly been blocked for sockpuppeting. [13] Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:23, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Article wordings changing request

With Simon Ekpa violence and unrest in Southeast Nigeria with his new rebel thugd, I think there should be a more suitable ways to describe him. Instead of.....

Simon Ekpa (born 21 March 1985) is a Finnish local politician, lawyer and former Nigerian athlete. He is one of the current leaders of the Biafra independence movement and the designated Prime Minister of the Biafra Republic Government in Exile (BRGIE) organization.

It should be.....

Simon Ekpa (born 21 March 1985) is a Finnish local politician, lawyer and former Nigerian athlete.He is one of the current leaders of the Biafra independence movement, the founder of the militia rebel group Biafra Liberation Army (BLA) and the designated Prime Minister of the self proclaimed Biafra Republic Government in Exile (BRGIE) organization. Johnefx (talk) 06:48, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Since the BLA is a very new thing, and the sources, such as they are and afaik, basically boils down to "Ekpa says this and Ekpa says that" atm, I don't think it's necessary to mention them in the WP:LEAD at this point. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:20, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

They are actually not new thing, prior to their official announcement by Simon Ekpa they have a different identity called unknown gunmen. I live in the region and I can attest to that, they have been involved in massive killings of innocent civilian including the uniform men in their thoughts of enforcing sit at home in the region. Though their are not enough evidence for the media against them as they always carried their whole operations Anonymously, but civilians like me should be enough to testify against them. Indeed it just look like they were born on October 2023 when Simon Ekpa officially announced them but in reality they have long established as unknown gunmen UGM. Hence I think a terror group like this should be properly explained on all related pages. Simon Ekpa have been properly portrayed on Wikipedia while he is actually a terror leader. So for me I think his page should be totally reformed including all his evil deeds, and yes they are many source out their we might find some evidence. Thanks. Johnefx (talk) 09:21, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

WP:ISAWIT doesn't help on this website, unfortunately. You have to seek out other parts of the internet to tell this story. Here WP:BLP is very important. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:35, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

this source are all point towards Simon ekpa as a master of terror.

, and there are many more evidence to prove that. Johnefx (talk) 09:50, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Now that's a start. I'll take a look at these, but maybe not today. Perhaps other editors will too. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:01, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Alright thanks, I will try to provide more source in the future. Johnefx (talk) 10:03, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

I'm still looking, but I've used some of these sources. Have a read through the article and see what you think. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:22, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

User:Johnefx was blocked for sockpuppetry. Wikishovel (talk) 10:35, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Every new editor on this and related articles appears to be a sock, but fwiw, I think both pro and con Ekpa people are socking. Sources are sources. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:39, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

There's no distinction made by admins between pro and con socks: WP:BMB. Wikishovel (talk) 10:45, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

And a good thing too. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:47, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

@Wikishovel, feel free to add something to this article about what Biafra is. I think you did that in the BLA article. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:42, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Done, please feel free to edit as you see fir fur. Wikishovel (talk) 19:54, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Nah, on my street it's mostly maple. ;-) Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:07, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Corrected! Wikishovel (talk) 20:39, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

I have some potential replies but they'll stay in my head. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:42, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

References

10 March 2024

I did a minor edit on the Wikipedia:Lead of the article, enhancing the readability and clarity of the Lead, removed potential tautology and added updated reference. Though this is a minor edit but I thought it would make more sense to put it on the Talk Page. Editors can review the RS and add more clarity and readability.

Infobox: Added title of "Prime Minister", other names parameter (Ifeanyi).Fugabus (talk) 18:59, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

I reverted you:[14]. And the Infobox should not state Prime Minister. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:41, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Fugabus, that was not a minor edit, and it's unclear where a potential tautology was removed. Wikishovel (talk) 09:49, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Hey @Wikishovel The potential tautology in the provided in the lead is the phrase "Biafra Republic Government in Exile (BRGIE) organization." The term "government in exile" typically implies an organization or group working for the interests of a government that is not currently in power or is in exile. Therefore, including both "government in exile" and "organization" may be redundant. You may see my edits to rephrase them for clarity again. Unnecessary sentences should be removed. It's my own opinion though.Fugabus (talk) 14:08, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Actually, for clarity, we can just remove PM from lead and just leave "leader". It's not that important what an org calls the leader, PM just muddles things. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:00, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång, you reverted the whole edits. In your own opinion, PM may be to to muddle things but generally it clarified things. See Polish government in exile and their first PM General Władysław Sikorski I don't just edit, I make research prior to editing on Wikipedia. I didn't add only PM on the infobox, I added the Notes, other names and modified the pronunciation name. I saw you literally reverted everything from the lead. I will make adjustments. Welcome Fugabus (talk) 14:06, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

If future biographers state that Ekpa and Władysław Raczkiewicz are very comparable individuals, we'll deal with it then. For now, comparing Ekpa's 2023 org with the Polish government in exile is very much WP:OTHERCONTENT. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:32, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

For the interested

Ekpa content is being added at Biafra. Which is not in theory unreasonable, but current text like "In a significant move to declare the restoration of the Republic of Biafra, Biafran Government was restored on 08 April 2023 with the establishment of Biafra Republic Government in Exile." is. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:20, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Gråbergs Gråa Sång, I saw that too. The one thing there is that, in the Nigerian context, the article meets GNG. So, I would edit it and watch incoming IPs or editors. — Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 05:50, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

I'm in no way suggesting Biafra does not meet GNG. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:18, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

Gråbergs Gråa Sång, I wasn't saying you insinuated either. The article has a lot to fix, I've tried the lead & Early life.... I may come back to this but not now. Thanks for your active fight against vandalism. Regards :-) — Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 07:35, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

I don't suppose you read Finnish either? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:39, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

Violence in the WP:LEAD?

There is quite a bit of violence mentioned in the Simon_Ekpa#Activism_and_separatism section. Should we add something on it in the lead, and if so, how? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 05:21, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

We also skipped the fact that he was dismissed by IPOB, this is what gave him attention in the first place.

According to Ekpa, IPOB was dissolved in a vote, renamed "Autopilot", and he became it's spokesman. Zubairu Dada, Nigerian minister, said the same year that "When [Ekpa] gives instructions, destruction follows. They cause killing, maiming, fires, whatever."—this statement by Dada is no joke. Vehicles, buildings, businesses were burned down with the supposed instructions from Ekpa. I have not really edited the article for a long time to avoid being bias. It was his violence that made the media to notice him.

Thank you for pointing this out, I have been so out of touch that I forgot. Best, Reading Beans 06:06, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

I would mention he is accused of being responsible for violence, but qualifying it somehow, say by 'accused' or that he denies this. I think it is relevant to mention, but in a way where his statements are taken into account. Not just that with add something one sidedly. In the kuvalehti article he states he wants to replicate certain finnish institutions, such as the legal institition and according to him it's a suprise Nigeria is still standing. Something either if he justify his actions, then add that to counter a claim or if he denies it. Kennet.mattfolk (talk) 09:56, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

The challenge is to come up with something short and correct. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:20, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

How about this; Ekpa has been accused of separatism and violence by figures such as Zubairu­ Dada, Olajumoke Ayandele which Ekpa denies. However Ekpa has said he is the commander of Eastern Security Network and that he wants to bring functioning institutions, such that exists in Finland, to Nigeria. ref:kuvalehti

Though whats funny is that in the kuvalehti article;

”Ekpan fraktio käy niiden kimppuun, jotka eivät noudata ulkona­liikkumiskieltoja ja niiden, joiden uskoo välittävän tietoa Nige­rian hallitukselle”, ACLED:n Nigerian-osaston päällikkö Olajumoke Ayandele kirjoittaa sähköpostissa.

”Ei pidä paikkaansa”, Ekpa sanoo.

”Sellaiset väitteet ovat hallituksen keksimiä, ne yrittävät mustamaalata kaikkea, mitä biafralaiset tekevät.”

Hallituksen joukot hyökkäävät jatkuvasti igboja vastaan, Ekpa sanoo.

Hän näyttää videoita, joissa panssarivaunut ampuvat toisiaan kohden. Toiset ovat kuulemma hallituksen joukkojen, toiset hänen johtamansa Biafran puolustusarmeijan.

Meaning he denies the claims, the next moment he reportedly show a video of a tank battle between Biafran separatists and Nigerian forces. He says the Nigerian forces don't go to those areas commanded by the separatists and therefore there is no violence, hence the claims are untrue. Kennet.mattfolk (talk) 10:56, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Way too long for the lead, and the article atm doesn't even mention Eastern Security Network or Olajumoke Ayandele or that wish about functions. Maybe it should, but it doesn't. The lead is supposed to summarize the body.

I don't think separatism fall under accusations, it's the term for wanting to make a country out of a bit of another country. Also, he denies violence against civilians, at least according to one source. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:58, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

"Ekpa's activities have been reported to involve acts of violence."

How's that per several Yle and African sources? I'm not sure even Ekpa would disagree that's correct. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:34, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Maybe 'evolved in' otherwise thumbs up from me. Kennet.mattfolk (talk) 12:57, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, "evolved"? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:00, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, involved :D Kennet.mattfolk (talk) 13:25, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Sorry again, not sure I get it. Can you write the sentence as you prefer it? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:29, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

"Ekpa's activities have been reported to be involved in acts of violence."

Makes it sound more like his activities are violent and not him. While your version manes it sound more like Ekpa is more a violent person. Just thought that my proposal sounds a bit better, but idk somebody can say what they prefer. :) Kennet.mattfolk (talk) 13:38, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

• makes not manes, srry it's friday.

Kennet.mattfolk (talk) 13:41, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

My reading is that "activities" aren't "involved" (but activities involve), but that's me. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:11, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

That there are reports of violence doesn't mean it has been comfirmed nor that he has been convicted in any law court. Refer to Wikipedia:BLPCRIME. Let's leave it for now till he is convicted. It would be considered libelous to add it. Meanwhile, Ekpa denied the accusations which is not being added in body of the article. 1 2.. This is what what we should be interested on. It would be interesting if he is convicted and then we may add it and not adding just mere accusations. ATM, it doesn't meet Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section

Fugabus (talk) 18:12, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Have you read the article? It already says Ekpa's activities have been reported to involve acts of violence, though in different words. But your WP:ADVOCACY view is noted, we'll see what other editors think. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:27, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång

Then, then it's better to leave it like that. At, Yle called him "Immigration lawyer" and your own terms still point to the same meaning which still falls under law. So, he's a lawyer.

Fugabus (talk) Fugabus (talk) 18:14, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Kennet.mattfolk, who speaks the language, says he's not. So listen to him. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:22, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

I consider the term lawyer to mean a person who has the license to represent an client in court fi:asianajaja, even on the finnish wiki page it gives the english term lawyer as an alternative to this word. In Finnish media, from the start there has been made a distinction between Ekpa not being an asianajaja. I consider Lawyer and Asianajaja to be the same thing and according to my knowledge they are.

That said, I'm not a subject matter expert deep into legal jargon. I'm trying to translate/convey as accurately what the articles say as I can, due to Ekpa being a living person in our society. Kennet.mattfolk (talk) 18:42, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Good enough for me. We can always try to get other people who know the language involved. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:46, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Btw, google translate agrees with me.

https://yle-fi.translate.goog/a/74-20019718?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

It translates; "Ekpa kuvaa yrityksensä verkkosivuilla itseään asiantuntijaksi erityisesti ulkomaalaislaissa. Hän ei kuitenkaan edusta asiakkaitaan itse oikeudessa eikä ole asianajaja.

– Olen ollut oikeusneuvojana, Ekpa sanoi Ylelle perjantaina puhelimessa."

to

"Ekpa describes itself on company's website as an expert, especially in the law on foreigners. They are not representing his clients in court and is not a lawyer.

- I have been a legal advisor, Ekpa told Yle on the phone on Friday."

I had to check, it translates asianajaja from the Yle text as lawyer and as I above on another comment, translated oikeusneuvojana as legal advisor, google does so too. And the legal advisor is a direct quote from Ekpa himself, describing his own job title. Kennet.mattfolk (talk) 19:15, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

That seems reasonable, at a guess it's illegal in Finland to market yourself as a lawyer if you're not. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:25, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

It is, it is also illegal to market yourself as legal advisor. That's one reason why Ekpa originally got in trouble with KRP, he had done unclear marketing and put his lawyer wife names on legal documents that he conducted. Kennet.mattfolk (talk) 19:28, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Reminds me of The Rainmaker, they did something like that there. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:31, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

...Are you saying we need a "self-described" on "legal advisor"? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:32, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Self-described Prime Minister, not the lawyer or legal advisor part. Lawyer seems more like a miss-translation of Finnish, while legal advisor is at least what he told Yle himself. Kennet.mattfolk (talk) 19:42, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Got it. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:45, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Calling Ekpa Prime Minister in wiki-voice

In case anyone wants to discuss it/have an opinion, I argue that him being called PM by an org he started last year does not make him a Prime Minister. When the AU or UN refers to him that way, that's more interesting. For the WP:LEAD, "leader" is reasonable atm. Details in the body.

Sources differ in their approach, and it's not that easy to tell what is WP:RS, but caveats are fairly common:[15][16][17]. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:55, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång, I suspect meatpuppetry here. Biafra topics are always bombarded with trolls, vandals and POV pushers and would suggest you stop feeding them. It would be helpful if the page is protected indefinitely for extended confirmed users. Best, Reading Beans 08:27, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

I don't disagree, but the AGF is strong in this one. This is a WP:BLP and we should get things WP-right if we can. And I really agree on the protection suggestion. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:36, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Also, you started this article, so you're to blame ;-) Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:47, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

AGF is what they always use to penetrate, you know. Our revert button shouldn’t be hesitated to be pushed when they come. Can you request for pp yourself?

Also, I’m sorry for creating the page! :)

Best, Reading Beans 03:54, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

"Not enough recent disruptive activity to justify protection." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 05:59, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

We seem to have deviated from the subject of the topic opened. Prime Minister or Leader? I opine that Prime Minister is more preferable for clarity purposes base on and the meaning of Government-in-exile on Wikipedia and the RS supports it. UN and AU have not disputed him for now per se meaning of government-in-exile and the Exile government started in 1970 when Odumegwu Ojukwu their President fled to Exile in Ivory coast. So, Prime Minister is more strong but he's not prime minister of a an independent country atm. He's a prime minister of a semi-sovereign country called Biafra. I hope that helps. Fugabus (talk) 12:40, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

@Fugabus, the article is fine the way it reads. Adding PM will add confuse to the mind of our readers. Best, Reading Beans 16:06, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

May I disagree with you Reading Beans? Adding PM will clarify the status instead of confusing readers. PM is more straight to the point instead of Leader as Leader has never been used in government-in-exile. We have had Governments in Exile in the past and they were all addressed by their title in their Wikipedia article page Lead. Let's be factual instead of being ficticious guys. Sentiments aside! Fugabus (talk) 18:31, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Reliable sources seem to use the term "self-proclaimed Prime Minister" or "self-acclaimed Prime Minister". I have no objection to using either of those titles because they automatically attribute the claim to the article subject rather than put Wikipedia in the position of asserting he is "Prime Minister" in Wikipedia's narrative voice. ~Anachronist (talk) 02:49, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

@Anachronist Thank you. The point me and Reading Beans is making is that it is better to leave this terminology to the body, since sources are a bit mixed and precision takes more words. There's a fair amount of drive by-edits like [18], which did add a source, a very positive article from WP:IBTIMES. There is also the fun "fact" that since he (cleverly?) named his org "government in exile", then, at least according to WP, it is a government in exile (like the Polish government-in-exile, see above thread), which is reaffirmed every time a source mentions it by name. Nevermind that Ekpa was born in 1985. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 05:25, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

The problem here is that the lead doesn't summmarize the body text. I made an attempt just now to rectify that, changing the lead paragraph to say "He appointed himself Prime Minister of the organization he leads, the Biafra Republic Government in Exile (BRGIE), which he founded in 2023." That is an objective fact we can say in Wikipedia's voice. ~Anachronist (talk) 13:55, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

And I think "leader" is a reasonable summary of "variously referred to him as "Prime Minister" or "self-acclaimed Prime Minister" of BRGIE". All in all, I don't see this as an improvement. But at least "self appointed" is in there. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:19, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

@Anachronist

I believe the source from Suomen Kuvalehti [1 is more strong and overrides all other former sources. The source is coming from Finland and it is the most recent one. It would be notable to add Prime Minister and government-in-exile to differentiate between a sovereign nation and also to clear readers. Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section should be applied as it will enhance clarity and not muddle it. It meets GNG We all should remember what WP:Lead says "The lead should identify the topic and summarize the body of the article with appropriate weight." Fugabus (talk) 14:05, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

@Anachronist

Your edit on the Lead is seen. I would like to add clarity and readability to it since we have unanimously established here that he is the Prime Minister of the government-in-exile

Best regards Fugabus (talk) 14:12, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

You did not add clarity. That he appointed himself to lead the org he founded is very relevant. And you have an interesting use of "unanimously". Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:17, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Also, on that one source you like, it seems it originally had ”Biafran pääministeri” in quote marks [19], indicating some skepticism. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:17, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

The article uses term such as he is prime minister in some ppl's eyes, also that he himself claim the title. Not that he unquestionably is the recognized pm by all. Then also gives a direct quote from Ekpa himself, ”Minä, Biafran pakolaisministeriön pääministeri, tuon teille uutisia toivosta.” or translated by me "Me, of Biafras ministry of exile's prime minister, bring you news of hope". he uses pakolaisministeriö (ministry of exile), instead of pakolaishallitus (government of exile). Insinuating he has a boss prime minister, president etc. somewhere. Just confusing. Maybe it's a genuine mistake by him and he means pakolaishallitus. The article uses government of exile instead of Ekpa though. Kennet.mattfolk (talk) 18:45, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Per that article, he could be thinking of Nnamdi Kanu, "I am in contact with Kanu every day." That's me guessing. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:50, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Gråbergs Gråa Sång

Editors on Wikipedia base their edits on sources but it seems you are editing out of the RS. "It's your own point of view".See the sources I saw before making that little tweak edit. 1 2. He was appointed and not He appointed himself. According to the reportage, he announced his announcement which made it to be covered in the mainstream media as rightly contained under in the "Activism and separatism" section of the article. I withdraw the use of the word "unanimously" but pease abide and stop muddling context. I do not rather disagree with your point of view edits but would suggest you read Wikipedia Wikipedia:Manual of Style before reverting me again or reach my talk page to discuss my edits. I feel bullied right now and whenever my whole edits are being reverted and not being improved. TBH, I feel discouraged to continue to improve the English Wikipedia but I must continue regardless. You should be encouraging me and point out corrections while referring me to one or more guidelines and policies on editing I know I am a new editor but you scare me away and not being friendly as you should be with new editors on Wikipedia.

Sincerely,

Fugabus (talk) 19:23, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

On "Biafran pääministeri" contained at the top of that Finnish source, it is called Clickbait in journalism and readers aren't skeptical. That you are skeptical is your own point of view anyways and I leave that for you. Wish you could just take out time to educate yourself on politics and journalism in this case.

Best regards, Fugabus (talk) 19:24, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Who appointed him? He did. Why dispute or whitewash a fact that is already reported in reliable sources? It is an undeniable fact that he appointed himself as Prime Minister. Nobody is denying that he is Prime Minister. The fact that we have multiple sources pointing out that he declared himself to be Prime Minister is relevant. The lead should summarize the body, and the body clearly says he is self-appointed, an objective undeniable fact that is backed up by multiple sources. ~Anachronist (talk) 19:40, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

@Fugabus

Whaat? Kuvalehti isn't really in the clickbait business, it is a bit of an posh magazine, high quality, limited circulation/readership. The comment I posted where more about what the article says and not my own opinion. It's right there in the article. The article goes through the disputes with IPOB and then states:

"Oli miten oli, Ekpa on nyt ainakin joidenkin pääministeri." or translated by me "Be it as it may, Ekpa is now at least the prime minister by some", with connotation/emphasis of joidenkin (by some) meaning not by all. Kennet.mattfolk (talk) 19:56, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

To everyone, if someone wakes up and declares himself President of New Amsterdam, would we acknowledge this in wikivoice? I guess not. Now, that is what is happening here. Being the leader as written by Gråbergs Gråa Sång makes sense to me. Best, Reading Beans 20:10, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

I would write it as just that and trust the reader, something like "claimed Prime Minister" or similar, with a qualifier in-front of the 'prime minister' title. Then add ref so reader can investigate themselves. Kennet.mattfolk (talk) 20:21, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Someone else want to revert the whitewashing this time? [20] Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 22:05, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

I added ref pointing to the edit for readers to see. This should not be considered whitewashing but should be seen edit based on Wikipedia Censorship issue. The body of the article has saved a lot.

My regards

Fugabus (talk) 22:19, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång It is considered offensive to refer to Fugabus as Wikipedia:ADVOCACY editor. Doing what is right by editing base on Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines is not advocacy in anyway. What should you be called then because the last I checked, you are the most contributing editor on this article page. Which category did you fall in? Don't make editors to be skeptical here. Conflict of interest editor? Our edits should be not suggest conflict of interest, Wikipedia:Libel or Wikipedia:Censorship.

Wikipedia:Neutral point of view ought to be maintained at all level. Hello @Kennet.mattfolk

The dispute of whether 'Leader' or 'Prime Minister' has been resolved which we ended up with Prime Minister. Nnamdi Kanu seem to me to be their president according to the utterances of Ekpa in the Yle report. The dispute now is whether self-declared should be used in the Lead or the body. I am considering opening a topic for it so that it can be resolved amicably.

Fugabus (talk) 10:26, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

@Fugabus, it is obvious that you're an advocating for something—just you and other blocked editors are in lieu. You haven't done a good job hiding it. The other links you proposed do not make any sense to me either, so what’s your point with libel and censorship?

There is no dispute concerning self declared, you are the only one advocating for it (advocating? Whoops!). But then go ahead and open another discussion advocating for prime minister Ekpa. Best, Reading Beans 10:37, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

@Reading Beans. It has been proven that you may have a conflict on interest on this article and if not, why do you tend to scare new commers away from contributing neutrally? Your accusations are unfounded and I can't take it from you. I think you may be wanting only you and @Gråbergs Gråa Sång to be editing the page so that you may impose your own point of view on a notable figure like Simon Ekpa. From what I have seen, this article has NPOV template on it citing that edits from your likes are not neutral. See you again.

10:54, 28 April 2024 (UTC) Fugabus (talk) 10:54, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

It has not been proven that I have a conflict of interest. Why should a new comer jump into Simon Ekpa? Your first edit was here in this talk page. See this. How did you find it? And you have since then advocated for a lot of things that only you agree with—this my friend is POV pushing. Best, Reading Beans 11:02, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Also, saying that I and Gråbergs want to edit the page is known as guilt tripping, I have seen this and more and I assure you that I am not moved by them. Best, Reading Beans 11:06, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

@Reading Beans

Wow, that's interesting to know from you. You are editing base on emotions. You were the one that created this page. Right? How did you come about creating it? So, Wikipedia is now hidden that only you would find it. Come on, let us be behave as Wikipedians here. I may imply that you have a Wikipedia:Conflict of interest editor but that doesn't mean that actually. Why are you biting me as a newcomer which I agree I am? You are violating the Wikipedia Policies and guidelines.

Thanks for bringing my attention to the past editors anyway.

Sincerely,

Fugabus (talk) 11:24, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

@Fugabus, I didn't want to reply you but your latest addition which include "Why are you biting me as a newcomer which I agree I am? You are violating the Wikipedia Policies and guidelines." is another form of guilt tripping I am talking about. Also be aware of Wiki-lawyering. Best, Reading Beans 11:56, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Already made a statement here, it's not about 'biting' anyone, but accuracy. We are talking about a living person here. Kennet.mattfolk (talk) 16:34, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Arbitrary break

The PM bit in the lead, at the time I'm writing this, is the following:

"He is the self-declared prime minister of a government-in-exile, the Biafra Republic Government in Exile (BRGIE), which was founded in 2023."

It's not how I would have written it (that is "He is the leader of the Biafra Republic Government in Exile (BRGIE), an organization he founded in 2023."), but it has the "self-declared", which, afaict, everyone in this thread except Fugabus sees as essential if PM is to be mentioned at all. "Self-declared" or a close synonym, anyway.

So, for the sake of peace and consensus, I can live with this version if I must. Opinions, Wikipedians? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:12, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

It is fine as it reads now. We are in lieu with reliable sources. Best, Reading Beans 12:28, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

And here we go we again. May I disagree base on Wikipedia:Censorship that the media reported him to be self appointed doesn't make him self appointed. I suggest we should leave that Lead per my last tweak. It's very important we abide by the rules guiding Wikipedia:Libel The body of the article already covered different reportage from RS referring to him as self-declared or self-acclaimed while Kuvalehti and International business times, International news media independent from the Nigerian government referred to him as PM which @Kennet.mattfolk comfirmed. Fugabus (talk) 18:20, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

We do indeed, WP:ADVOCACY-editor. Your opinion is noted. @Kennet.mattfolk and @Anachronist, care to voice an opinion on this particular issue? And since you think there is libel in the article, I suggest you use the mailadress in that page you just linked. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:33, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Self-declared, hmm, there are arguments for and against. In Kuvalehti you get the understanding that Ekpa is more appointed by a fraction/faction of separatists to represent them as "prime minister". Self-declared implies he is the main driver to this post of pm, while removing the qualifier self-declared may give an impression of legitimacy, that hey he really is an pm. We don't know exactly who and what got him there. In the same article he seem to give passing praise to Nnamdi Kanu, with Ekpa even posing in a photo with a picture of kanu on an shelf, with the text "leader" on it. If the choice is between a bad qualifier of "self-declared" and no qualifier, I vote qualifier, noting it's a bad one. Kennet.mattfolk (talk) 18:55, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

@Kennet.mattfolk That is the advantage of the "leader" lead-version, we don't have to pick a caveat there. But, you can see a couple of alts linked in my OP, and here's another Yle:[21]. Self-declared is from [22] which Fugabus added as a ref in the lead. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:05, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

The Yle article you link describes him as self-described prime minister, which I think is better than self-declared, due to more neutral connotation of self-declared which has a negative connotation. While Leader is good, but considering he considers Kanu too as a "Leader", you might end up with many person of the same title. Leader is too better than Self-declared, I prefer self-described. Kennet.mattfolk (talk) 19:20, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Otoh, self-described has a hint that he's the only one who calls him that. IMO, that makes it worse. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:22, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Prime_Minister_or_not

For the interested. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:52, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Prime Minister or not

Among the 40 page watchers on this article, you are all all invited to contribute to the ongoing discussion on Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard found here on whether Simon Ekpa is a Prime Minister or self-declared Prime Minister per the Lead. You may contribute there or under here as you all may wish.

Sincerely, Fugabus (talk) 17:16, 28 April 2024 (UTC)