Talk:Settlers: The Mythology of the White Proletariat

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The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:

McCreary, Tyler (2009-10-26). "Settlers: The Mythology of the White Proletariat (Book review)". Upping the Anti (2).
Ryan, Michael (Spring 2006). "Being Captured Is beside the Point". CR: The New Centennial Review. 6 (1): 269–282. JSTOR 41949514.
Sakai, J. (2000). "An Interview with J. Sakai". When Race Burns Class: Settlers Revisited. Kersplebedeb Publishing. ISBN 978-1-894820-26-4.

anti-socialist propaganda; controversy

This book is not socialist; it makes the point that organizing for socialism in the USA is useless because the "white majority" are all the same and are "settlers" and "exploiters" - bosses and imperialists - it says the "white proletariat" (white workers) are a "myth." This stands in direct opposition to dialectical materialism and pushes idealist theories of race essentialism. This article is very biased and one-sided. Additionally, there is controversy about this book; not only the subject matter and the claims and theories pushed, but the author "J. Sakai" who seemingly does not exist. This book was sent to black prisoners in the USA by a group claiming to be linked to Bob Avakian, but Bob said he never heard of them. What would be the point of only sending this book to black prisoners? 69.127.80.46 (talk) 02:34, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Criticisms of this book are in the page Justanotherguy54 (talk) 11:34, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"unsober"

Hi all. I'm checking up on the citation in this text:

Marxist–Leninist–Maoist academic Joshua Moufawad-Paul described Sakai's tone and use of language as "unsober" in a way that distinguished it from academic works.

The academic journal that this cites does not say "unsober" at all. And the quote "unsober" comes from a | Blogspot article. Sadly Blogspot isn't reliable for Wikipedia, but even the Blogspot article doesn't make such a simple claim.Stix1776 (talk) 07:41, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Stix1776 I'm coming here to discuss per BRD. The source being a blogspot article does not inherently disqualify the source. Paul counts as a subject-matter expert per WP:SELFPUB (his other works on the book and on related topics have been published in reputable publishers and cited) and his review of this book is cited in other academic works. In Critical Ethnic Studies, Dan Berger includes Paul's review as among the relevant literature within radical circles on the book. ~ F4U (talk • they/it) 19:00, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Freedom4U. I aprpeciate all the work you've done on this article. At the very least, remove Berger as a source for that quote as they don't have "unsober" in that published text whatsoever. My biggest gripe with this is that "unsober" makes the book seem factually dishonest (unsober = drunk), when Joshua Moufawad-Paul states quite differently.

Although J. Sakai's Settlers: The Mythology of the White Proletariat was published in the mid-1980s it has remained at the edges of "acceptable" social theory, just at the threshold of obscurity. Perhaps the reason for its academic neglect can be blamed on its unsober use of language and rhetorical tone: those who study political theory within the polite confines of academia tend to zone out when they read phrases and words that break the implicit rules of intellectual chivalry.

This needs more precise language. Also, as a long term editor, I'm sure you know that BRD doesn't mean to revert to retain your previous edit, but here we are.Stix1776 (talk) 07:09, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]