Talk:Sefid-Rud

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On 12 November 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved from Sefīd-Rūd to Sefid-Rud. The result of the discussion was moved.

Name

Rud or Roud is the Persian word for river. In English the Sefid is usually known as the Sefid River. --Bejnar 17:44, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I really didn't find references to it as the Sepid River. --Bejnar 02:03, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The English name is Sefid River. That is how it appears in most English geographical writings. Do not move without discussion. --Bejnar 21:39, 11 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In Sefid Rud, "Rud" is a part of the name and should not be translated. Therefore I suggest that this page moved back to Sefid Rud.--M samadi (talk) 16:23, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It is indeed part of the name and it shouldn't be translated. Also, Sefid-Rud (or Sefidrud) is much more common in English texts. For example, you can check academic papers (266 for "Sefid-Rud and 466 for Sefidrud, compared to only 14 for "sefid river"). Alefbe (talk) 20:50, 26 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That doesn't change the fact that "Sefid River" is the English form of the name. --Bejnar (talk) 20:58, 26 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In Wikipedia, we use the names which are more common in English texts (we don't care about the parts of a compound word, or if those parts are English or not). We don't try to change the common names by changing its parts to English, to make it more English. The wikipedian notion of English name is about the usage in English texts. Your notion of English name is irrelevant here. We don't try to change Kaliningrad to Kalinin city or to change Sefidrud to Sefid river (or White River). Alefbe (talk) 21:05, 26 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The U.S. Board of Geographic Names [1] which is the guide for U.S. usage gives its English name as "Sefīd Rūd". Kmusser (talk) 22:25, 26 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The BGN is not a guide to English usage, as our guidance on the subject says; it's a guide to systematic transliteration of Iranian usage. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:06, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Read my comments above. Sefid-Rud is its most common name in English texts. Alefbe (talk) 20:08, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Evidence of this would be welcome. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 23:21, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Results of search over Google Books and Google Scholar is clear in my opinion ("Sefid-Rud" and "Sefidrud", compared to "Sefid River"). Alefbe (talk) 01:52, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That's your opinion. If they are so clear, supply links. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 02:07, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've already done that. Alefbe (talk) 02:10, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. However from the discussion I wonder if there might be consensus to move to Sefid Rud? Vegaswikian (talk) 22:42, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sefīd-Rūd → Sefid River — Relisted. Vegaswikian (talk) 22:23, 15 April 2011 (UTC) The name of the river in English is "Sefid River", although the form "Sefid Rud" does appear in English language publications, primarily those translated from Farsi (Persian) and those by Iranisists. Rud or Roud is the Farsi (Persian) word for river. In Google Books, the form "Sefīd-Rūd" currently used by this article does not appear at all. The form "Sefid River" occurs in such established publications as The Columbia Gazetteer of the World, Collier's encyclopedia, Hammond's World Atlas (1960) and The National Geographic Magazine; it is true that the Encyclopedia Britannica does not use it. --Bejnar (talk) 03:33, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Google Books doesn't handle the diacritics, Sefid Rud appears 3,960 times compared to Sefid River's 2,420, regular Google hits are 104k for Sefīd-Rūd and 24k for Sefid River. Britannica actually uses both depending on edition. BGN uses Sefīd-Rūd, without giving Sefid River as an alt name. It's clear both forms are commonly used in English. I'd lean towards keeping Sefīd-Rūd. Kmusser (talk) 14:08, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Strong support for renaming. Would you really use the term "rud" in normal use when speaking about this river? Of course not. No one will say "I was swimming in the Sefid Rud", but rather "I was swimming in the Sefid River". Use English! -- P 1 9 9 • TALK 01:36, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose proposal as stated and move to Sefid Rud, as the common name used in reliable English language sources. A Google books search restricted to English sources returns 2,020 results for <"Sefid Rud" -"sefid rud dam" -"sefid rud valley">. There's just 51 result for <"Sefid River" -"sefid river dam" -"sefid river valley">. The current title returns no results at all.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 14:47, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 12 November 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Unopposed RM. (non-admin closure) Colonestarrice (talk) 18:03, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sefīd-Rūd → Sefid-Rud – Because the Persian name of this river (سفید رود) sounds like Sefid-Rud Kidsonthemoon (talk) 10:54, 12 November 2021 (UTC) — Relisting. BegbertBiggs (talk) 14:37, 25 November 2021 (UTC)— Relisting. —usernamekiran • sign the guestbook • (talk) 16:11, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support see book results about "Sefid Red" . Kidsonthemoon (talk) 10:30, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment please also check WP:COMMONNAME and Wikipedia:USEENGLISH Kidsonthemoon (talk) 16:58, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment note that the one "Support" is from nom. I'm neutral on this. It's not clear to what extent removing the diacritical marks makes this title better. Dicklyon (talk) 04:53, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Two articles for the same tributary

Articles exist for both the Zarjoob and Shahrud (river); however, these seem to be the same river, a tributary of this river. Before merging what would be the preferred name? See Talk:Shahrud (river) for discussion. --Erp (talk) 07:11, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think the latter is more common, the U.S. government uses Shāhrūd, Google uses Shahrood. Kmusser (talk) 13:51, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]