Talk:Scribonia (wife of Octavian)

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I heard that ancient historians referred to Scribonia as being, like ten or even twenty years older then Augustus, is the infomation here wrong? --82.34.129.62 21:29, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A majority of ancient historians based their histories on what Augustus told them-- and very one-sided source. There is only one comment on her age and that said "his elder by many years" it didn't give a number of years, so as far as I know. She couldn't have been twenty-years-older because she outlived Augustus and Julia, and lived till at least the end of 16, if it was twenty years she would have been 98! People today don't normally get to that age let alone back in a time when mortality of people was very low. Ten years is more likely but still just a bit too much; ten years would have made her 86/7 when she was alive in 16. Livia made it to 87, but she hadn't been stuck in exile for years without any doctors etc... Plus Scribonia was still in full possession of her wits. Historians tend to agree that, given and take all I've mentioned and also that she managed to bare living children between 48 and 38 BC, she needn't have been anymore then thirty when she married Octavius. --Camblunt100 21:44, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What about her parents? Wasn't her brother born in 90 BC? Surely her parents wouldn't have have waited twenty odd years to have kids. --82.34.129.62 21:46, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No one knows for sure which Lucius Scribonius Libo was her father; because of the statement that Scribonia was Augustus' "elder by many years" many other historians assumed that the Scribonius born in 90 BC must have been her brother. Schied is one of the many historians who agree that the 90 BC Scribonius couldn't have been her brother because if she was in fact twenty years older then Augustus, or more, then she would have been 35 when she gave birth to Cornelius, 37 when she gave birth to Cornelia and 44 when she gave birth to Julia-- very unlikely! Many historians agree that the L. Scribonius Libo of 90 BC was in fact her father, and that her real brother was his son of the same namesake who was the father of Drusus and Lucius Scribonius. It should be noted that Seneca credits her for being the aunt of the Scribonius brothers killed by Tiberius, not the great-aunt. --Camblunt100 21:58, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've been consulting biographies and I looked up Scribonia's second husband, who the biography claims, was forced to divorce her in order for her to marry Octavius. Further evidence that he didn't commit suicide in 46 BC his that he became consul suffect in 35 BC and probably died soon after that... This brings me to question, with all the Cornelius Scipios around back then-- can we all swear that the one that may have committed suicide in 46 BC was Scribonia's husband? Also, there is also evidence that she had two children by P. Cornelius Scipio: Cornelia and a younger P. Cornelius Scipio, who became consul in the year that Cornelia died. --Camblunt100 17:11, 19 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Do we actually know that Scribonia died in 16 AD? Cause Seneca mentions her being alive in 16 AD when Marcus Scribonius Drusus Libo commited suicide, it doesn't meant she died. Is there a historian who says that she died in 16 AD or is it just a guess? --Camblunt100 13:28, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, Scribonia's death date should be considered unknown. Just because her last action was in 16 AD doesn't mean she died. By all accounts she was healthy and still with all of her wits in tact, she could have died a year later for all we know. 16 AD should be the offical death date but shouldn't be give with certainty. --Sophie-Lou 10:48, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Opposite theories tells that Scribonia (b. 70/68), wife of Octavian, was the granddaughter of Quintus Pompeius Rufus, who was consul 88 BC with Lucius Cornelius Sulla, not of Pompey the Great (b. 106 BC; married Mucia Tertia c. 79 BC).

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.155.46.234 (talk • contribs) 16:43, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Edit summary

I accidentally hit Enter while entering my edit summary, so I'm putting the full edit summary here:

Copyedit including some factual corrections; rewrote bits of "drama/lit" section that they no longer sound like they're accusing authors of fiction of trying to rewrite history because they've taken literary license with the historical record. Binabik80 13:52, 14 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 10 February 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page to the plain title at this time, per the discussion below; thus a disambiguation page has been placed at the main title. It was also suggested that Scribonia (gens) might be the primary topic for the term, but there is no consensus for that in the current discussion either; please initiate another move request as necessary. Dekimasuよ! 00:54, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Scribonia (wife of Augustus) → Scribonia – already redirects here so qualifier unnecessary PatGallacher (talk) 00:46, 10 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 06:42, 10 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@PatGallacher: queried move request Anthony Appleyard (talk) 06:43, 10 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment the target has flipped before to Scribonia (gens) -- 70.51.201.106 (talk) 04:29, 10 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Object to speedy move this should be a disambiguation page. Aside form the gens and Augustus's wife, there's also Scribonia (wife of Crassus) and Hypercompe scribonia (H. scribonia) -- 70.51.201.106 (talk) 04:33, 10 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Reply I suggest that Augustus's wife is the primary meaning. She was the mother of his only child, Julia, and therefore the ancestor of several important figures, including the emperors Caligula and Nero. As the article on Crassus's wife says "very little is known of her life". We could create a disambiguation page for the other meanings of Scribonia. PatGallacher (talk) 13:37, 10 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- There's a WP:NOTINHERITED, her personal importance versus that of her descendants. She had a short marriage to Octavian, and had a daughter during that time. The section on Exile is purely about Julia and not Scribonia. The Augustus section discusses descendants and not much of herself. I don't see why the primary landing spot shouldn't be a disambiguation page. @Sanada Yuki-kun: clearly thought the family Scribonia was more primary than this person. -- 70.51.201.106 (talk) 14:29, 10 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support. No other article of this title on Wikipedia. FineStructure137 (talk) 02:55, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- What are you talking about? There's clearly atleast two other articles with this title. Scribonia (gens) and Scribonia (wife of Crassus) -- 70.51.201.106 (talk) 05:34, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The main article should be about the gens. Due to Roman-naming conventions, every female member was a "Scribonia". Dimadick (talk) 07:01, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. No primary topic. She's not very well-known and was only married to Augustus (or Octavian, as he was then) for two years. She's hardly a Livia! Scribonia should be a disambiguation page. And this article should probably be renamed to Scribonia (wife of Octavian), otherwise we're venturing into the realms of historical anachronism. That's how modern historians refer to him before 27 BC, as his article states. He is never referred to as Augustus before he actually used the name. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:19, 12 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 1 March 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved (closed by non-admin page mover) SITH (talk) 17:23, 15 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

– The current titles are historical anachronisms. They were married to him before he was known as Augustus, when he was still known as Octavian. That's how modern historians refer to him before 27 BC, as his article states. He is never referred to as Augustus before he actually used the name. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:16, 1 March 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. samee converse 16:10, 8 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment There could also be some questions about whether "Octavian" is somewhat anachronistic, since that wasn't his official name during this period. Shakespeare's Julius Caesar calls him "Octavius". PatGallacher (talk) 18:23, 8 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Not really, given that's what historians call him today. That's like saying it's anachronistic if the article title isn't completely in Latin! -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:39, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support. The couple was divorced before the name change. To the extent that Scribonia is notable at all, it is on account of being Julia's mother. Julia's claim to fame is as the daughter Augustus denounced for adultery in 2 BC. FineStructure137 (talk) 22:05, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.