Talk:Scout Motto

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Start

As the Scout motto, this is one of the world's very well-known slogans, so I'm starting a page specifically about it. I'm moving the other (comparatively minor) uses to a Be Prepared (disambiguation) page.

Future contents can include translations into many more languages, the origins of the motto, the play on Baden-Powell's initials, etc. Zaian 19:44, 16 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think there ought to be a bit more on the history and meaning of the phrase 'be prepared'. As scouting has always been a proto-military organization, the original 'be prepared' quote comes from Baden-Powell as quoted in Scouting for Boys, 12 February 1908, pages 331-332.

The original full quote is "BE PREPARED to die for your country if need be, so that when the moment arrives you may charge home with confidence, not caring whether you are going to be killed or not"

As such, the 'be prepared' quote has much more to do with militaristic loyalty than I suspect most people these days care to understand.

Yesterday I updated the main page with the true meaning of "Be Prepared," INCLUDING a citation, yet someone deemed it necessary to remove my entry and return to the current text, which has NO citation. The current text is NOT from a primary source and NOT properly substantiated. What's the deal?--Milo rules 16:26, 8 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I have gone back and 'fixed' the text to include the original full quote. I have included the PRIMARY SOURCE CITATION, which was previously lacking. The previous entry contained a SECONDARY SOURCE CITATION, which merely referred to the full quote by way of reference.--Milo rules 16:32, 8 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was moved. This proposal has been sitting around for 4 months with no opposition, so I've been bold and continued with the move. -Patstuart^talk|edits 15:16, 13 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

Be Prepared → Scout Motto — I propose that this article be renamed to Scout Motto to be more inclusive of its meaning. Chris 01:37, 22 August 2006 (UTC) Chris 06:41, 13 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

Add * '''Support''' or * '''Oppose''' on a new line followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.

AgreeRlevse 01:44, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Agree --Gadget850 ( Ed) 10:44, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Agree Horus Kol 15:20, 20 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Agree Lou Crazy 01:57, 27 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Agree --Gadget850 ( Ed) 13:40, 13 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Add any additional comments:

I don't see that this ever going to grow past a very short article, especially once the cruft (such as the poem and the language stuff) is removed. How about merging this into Scout method? If it grows from there, then it can me moved into a separate article. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 18:40, 27 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Tabling

What would you folks think, if we make this a table like the WOSM membership list? Chris 08:25, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've no strong feelings either way about putting the various languages into a table. Kingbird 17:07, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I notice that at the moment some of the Spanish language mottoes end in an exclamation mark. Unfortunately, this isn't correct. In Spanish, exclamation marks are used in pairs, with one like this ¡ at the start and one like this ! at the end. So these mottoes have either lost or gained a punctuation mark in transit. Kingbird 01:20, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I went off of Trefoil round the World, which only used the pair for Chile. If you would like to correct, feel free, I noticed the book had many typos. Chris 02:03, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also, there was no structure to the original list, so I made it a table. I just can't figure out what to do with Esperanto (Estu preta), Interlingua (Sempre Preste), and Uighur (Tayyar Bol). Should a "language" column be added, maybe right after country? Chris 02:07, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'll have a go at checking those Spanish ones on the internet. That should clear up some of them. But I might take a while, so don't wait for me. I can change things in the article as easily as here. As for the three languages not specifically attached to a country, either do as you suggest or create a second (very similar) table to go below the first one. I can't think of anything better at this stage. Kingbird 18:36, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And now found at the Russian Scouting article Якутский: Belem Buol (Yakut). Chris 21:23, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

still undone-Afghan, Samoan, Tetum, Tigrinya, Tahitian, Kalaallisut, Chamorro, Hawaiian, Marshallese, Ulithian, Woleaian, Yapese, Ponapean, Kosraean, Chuukese, Burmese, Nauruan, Māori, Hausa, Zarma, Palauan, Tokelauan, Tuvaluan, Bislama, Uvean, Futunan Chris 06:44, 11 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

need rendered in their own scripts-Uyghur, Mongolian script, Tibetan script, Cherokee syllabary, Berber languages, Syriac alphabet, Chris 06:18, 13 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Riffian Berber, apparently ssawjadv ixf nec Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 20:14, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

acrostic poem?

I don't see the relevance of that acrostic poem. It's not even sourced. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.20.177.216 (talk) 19:52, 4 April 2007 (UTC).[reply]

I've significantly altered this section, and it now includes a source. Kingbird 19:22, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

...and there was much rejoicing. Good work. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 19:29, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Korean

Can someone put the text of the scroll of this badge into the article itself? Chris 10:36, 9 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Removed {{needhangul}} as I already answered here. eDenE 13:08, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

For any old thing

Is there any reliable source for the fable of Baden-Powell when asked "What should they be prepared for?" Responding "Why, for any old thing."? —Scouter Sig 21:08, 14 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I as wondering the same thing. I found it in my old copy of "The Official Boy Scout Handbook" Ninth edition, Twelveth printing November 1988, Copyright 1979 page 42. I just checked the tenth edition and it has the same quote, word for word on page 562. It doesn't read like a cited statement though. Here is the line from the book:

"Someone once asked Baden-Powell, the founder of Scouting, "Be prepared for what?" "Why," said B-P, "for any old thing."..."

71.193.243.8 (talk) 04:32, 31 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Chinese translations

Where did those translations come from? The Chinese translations are pretty bad. They mean "prepare" or "to prepare", which is awkward when spoken independently or used as motto. --Voidvector (talk) 02:01, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Scouts_of_China#Scout_Motto, if that's wrong, please help. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 02:18, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Ah, it is presented like a instruction/command, which would be OK. --Voidvector (talk) 03:05, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Translations

Is there really a need for the translation of this motto into every possible language? I mean, if each country's scouting association had a totally unique motto, then maybe, but as it is these are simply the closest translations of "Be Prepared" into each respective language. I think the appropriate place for this information is in a field of {{Infobox WorldScouting}} on each national scouting association's page, or in a translations box at wikt:Be Prepared. — ˈzɪzɨvə (talk) 02:32, 23 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 14 November 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

It was proposed in this section that multiple pages be renamed and moved.

result:
No consensus. See no general agreement below, so the status quo remains in place for now. As is usual with a no-consensus outcome, editors can strengthen their arguments and try again in a few months to rename these pages. Kudos to editors for your input, and Happy, Healthy Publishing! (nac by page mover) P.I. Ellsworth ed. ^put'r there 04:26, 30 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Links: current log • target log

This is template {{subst:Requested move/end}}

Scout Motto → Be Prepared
Be Prepared → Be Prepared (disambiguation)

– Suggesting a reassessment of the 2006 move to "Scout Motto". Per WP:TITLE, "article titles are written using the English language", and similar articles are named directly after the English-language phrase rather than given a language-neutral description (eg. Victory or death is not called Bedford flag motto). The phrase appears to have been first coined in English, by Baden Powell. Titling the article Be Prepared also satisfies WP:RECOGNIZABILITY: if you'd asked me before I'd read this article what the Scout motto was, I wouldn't have been 100% sure, but I could have told you that "be prepared" was a phrase the Scouts used. Lord Belbury (talk) 14:09, 14 November 2020 (UTC) —Relisted. P.I. Ellsworth ed. ^put'r there 02:49, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: the Be Prepared title is of a dab page with significant content and so is ineligible to be a "new" title unless the dab page is also renamed. This request has been altered to reflect that fact. P.I. Ellsworth ed. ^put'r there 14:50, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support per proposal. I don't even like "Scout Motto" as it is. Surely it should have been "Scouts motto"? — HTGS (talk) 17:19, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- ... or "Scouts' Motto"? This reminds me of a debate in Private Eye about whether a column should be called "Pedants Corner" or "Pedants' Corner". They settled on "Pedantry Corner" Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 08:54, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The pageviews data clearly shows that Scout Motto gets about the same views as Be Prepared (song). --Gonnym (talk) 00:25, 15 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

To be clear Gonnym, you oppose a move to Be Prepared but would you support Be Prepared (motto) (or similar)? — HTGS (talk) 00:58, 15 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I currently don't have an opinion on that, but my oppose is to switch primary topics. --Gonnym (talk) 01:22, 15 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I think either I misunderstand you, or you maybe misunderstand the situation; there is no current primary topic, the page for Be Prepared is currently a disambiguation. I also just did a pageview search and the motto until recently was getting over double the hits as the song. I also feel like the motto should take primacy over the song, but that's not a strong conviction of mine. I think we could certainly move this page to Be Prepared (motto) if it's a major sticking point, and keep the debate here to what the appropriate title is, rather than which topic is primary. — HTGS (talk) 01:47, 15 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support. The Scouts' motto is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC of "Be Prepared" by long-term significance. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 08:54, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The Scout Motto isn't always Be Prepared. --evrik ^(talk) 00:32, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as proposed. There's a lot going on here, and I think :
1. What should the title of the article about the motto be? "Scout Motto", "Scout motto", "Be Prepared", "Scouts' motto", "Mottos of the Scouts", other? That might be better discussed here first.
2. Is the motto the primary topic of the title "Be Prepared"?
  - If so, and if the title of the motto article should be "Be Prepared", it should be moved there.
  - If so, but the title of the motto article is something else, "Be Prepared" should be a WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT to that article.
  - If not, but the title of the motto article should be "Be Prepared", it should be moved to "Be Prepared (motto)" or perhaps a secondary title should be used for WP:NATURALDIS.
  - If not and the title of the motto article is something else, the motto article can be moved to its new title.
But I think the discussion on the first point needs to have a consensus. Looking at the article, it does cover more mottos than just "Be Prepared", so I don't think the motto article should be moved to either "Be Prepared" or "Be Prepared (motto)", but to one of the other options (since "Motto" here isn't part of a proper name). -- JHunterJ (talk) 13:11, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. When I think "Be Prepared", I immediately think of Be Prepared (song). Clearly there is no primary topic here. I'd support Be Prepared (motto) if there is consensus on it._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 12:39, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.