Talk:Satin weave

I see this says that sateen is a weft weave while satin is a warp weave, however the page on satin weave says satin is a long staple threads while sateen is the same with short staple threads, or with cotton.

SO, what is it? Is sateen a different weave? A different material (cotton v. silk)? Or a different staple length? I have seen all three definitions in wikipedia, and they don't seem to work together very well.

Well, two do, it could be that satin is made of threads normally given to long staple such as silk, while sateen is short stapled materials such as cotton. However, that tends to argue against this page's definition of sateen. Then again, the wikipedia page on sateen has a definition which contradicts this page's definition as well.

So, since it seems this definition of sateen is in disagreement with every other definition in Wikipedia, I am simply removing this section:

A fabric is a satin if the fabric is warp faced (the fabric predominantly shows warp threads). A fabric is a sateen if it is weft faced meaning only the weft threads show. The float is in the warp or vertical direction for satin, and with sateen the float is in the horizontal or filling direction.

I was going to try to edit it to retain useful information, but I can find nothing that gives s specific name to weft-float fabric, so it was impossible to craft a meaningful paragraph out of the information in that section which was not suspect. As I said earlier, the sateen article says sateen is four-over-one-under which does not agree with this statement at all. And the sateen page makes more sense, as I understand sateen to be basically "satin made of cotton", which this statement contradicts by making sateen some sort of four-under-one-over fabric, which is not supported anywhere I have seen. Even consulting sources outside of Wikipedia, it appears everywhere I can find that sateen is just "satin using cotton". 68.49.147.180 (talk) 22:43, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just to clarify, here is the quote form our Wikipedia Sateen page:

The sateen structure is four over, one under, placing the most threads on the surface, making it extremely soft, though slightly less durable than other weaves. Standard, non-sateen, weaves use a one over, one under structure. Satin also uses this structure, however, instead of using cotton, different materials are used (e.g., silk, polyester, etc).

Four-over-one-under does not expose the weft, but the warp, just as in satin. So even if the quote did not explicitly say "the same structure is used for satin", I would have to argue sateen is not weft-faced.

But, to prove Satin and Sateen weave the same way, here is an excerpt from the wikipedia Satin page:

If a fabric is formed with a satin weave using filament fibers such as silk, nylon, or polyester, the corresponding fabric is termed a "satin". If the yarns used are short-staple yarns such as cotton, the fabric formed is considered a sateen.

See, the difference is in materials used, not the direction in which the floats run. (You can also see satin is four-over-one-under in the accompanying picture, but I did not want to bother linking that ehre as well.) 68.49.147.180 (talk) 22:52, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oops. I seem to have reversed the terms because of the bad quote I was criticizing. Both satin and sateen show more weft, not warp. So bother are "weft-faced", neither is "warp faced". Somehow the bad quote I was correcting managed to confuse me and make me mix the two up.

So, to make this clear. Both satin and sateen are 4-over-1-under, which exposes much more of the weft, not warp, so both are "weft-faced".

I think that is right now. In either case, my point is still valid, both fabrics use the exact same weave, just differing raw materials, whether they are warp or weft faced does not matter, though I do want to correct my earlier errors. 68.49.147.180 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 22:55, 28 November 2008 (UTC).[reply]

Hi it isn't a 'long staple fibre' im not even sure that exists. If its a filament fibre its satin (so if nylon or silk are used) if its a staple fibre its sateen (thats cotton). sorted? I think you have answered your own question as in it doesnt have anything to do with the change in weave just fibre used. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.20.211.92 (talk) 10:52, 26 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]