Talk:Saidu Baba

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Aren't there many Akhunds?

I thought that the Akhund of Swat was an old royal title, later used for religious leaders in Swat. Even if not, this article should be titled with the Akhund in question's name, not his title. -- TinaSparkle 23:11, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ethnicity of the Saidu Baba

According to the members of the family themselves Abdul was a Mohmand Pathan by ethnicity while his family were cowherds (Gujjar in Pathan language) by economic occupation rather than ethnicity leading to confusion. Nonetheless even if they had been Gujjar subsequent intermarriage would have made their current primary ethnicity Pathan.RichardBond (talk) 08:51, 23 May 2018 (UTC) RichardBond (talk) 08:51, 23 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yes there's very much confusion according to his ethnicity and you have sum up the situation. In those days herding was common in every caste system. Though historically he's being mentioned as Momand Pashtun in many books. Mustaeen Yousafzai (talk) 04:31, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ethnicity

The only reason he's been labelled as Gujjar because of his religious Education in Gujjar Garhi, Mardan for couple of years. According to sources and books particularly the book of M.J. Seyal Mohmand. ^[1] Which clearly mentioned Safi Mohmand. The second reference is ^[2] Frontier of Faith: Islam, in the Indo-Afghan Borderland By Sana Haroon page 39 mentioned him of Safi Mohmand tribe.

Also, the book of Khan Roshan Khan for further reference.

It wasn't mentioned anywhere until the Yousafzai State of Swat was merged with Pakistan and the propaganda was started. Those claiming for his ethnicity as Gujjar has no strong evidence beside some internet pages and hearsay references. Secondly, the name Akhund itself define it all. The last but not the least how can a community of strong hold Yousafzai would ever choose a Gujjar as their leader with strict Pashtun Tribal system which is still in use while Gujjar (no disrespect) is still considered low cast in Swat valley by Pashtun. I would request the Gujjar reference to be more reliable and has something in writing in history to support it. Mustaeen Yousafzai 17:36, 31 August 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mustaeen Yousafzai (talk • contribs)

I have been told by members of the family that if the ethnic Gujjar were well educated and well behaved they would not object to a family member marrying a Gujjar. However they themselves are not etnic Gujjar. The Akhund and family did (act as Gujjar) tend cattle at rare times but it was their own herd given by people who received religious counselling. The word Gujjar means cattle herd and the Gujjar ethnicity/caste are known traditionally as cattle herds.RichardBond (talk) 02:17, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

Removal of sourced content

@Mustaeen Yousafzai the claim for Gujjar ethnicity is backed by five references, three of which are published by Harvard, Cambridge and California University presses. If there is another theory too, you can add it with reliable references, but still cannot remove the already cited content on the ground that "it is debated". Sutyarashi (talk) 17:17, 22 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The same is supported that he was Momand Pashtun with references from different books and the family itself claimed their ancestors to be Momand Pashtun. Since it's debatable we can't put it to any ethnicity and a common history to be prevailed. Hope it's sufficient for your understanding. Mustaeen Yousafzai (talk) 17:23, 22 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Mustaeen Yousafzai you can add Mohmand ethnicity too, if you can provide reliable references. Sutyarashi (talk) 17:25, 22 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Already added please go through the talk page again. Mustaeen Yousafzai (talk) 17:28, 22 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Mustaeen Yousafzai no you still haven't provided any references. Also, please avoid replacing referenced content with unsourced additions. If you can't, it would be removed. Please beware of WP:3R before reverting again. Sutyarashi (talk) 17:32, 22 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think I added and accepted most of your requests but still could not understand your prospective. A source is a source whether colonial or recent. I have already requested that the ancestry is debatable and could lead to a battle of discussion and sources either we remove the ancestry or accept what is in history. In other case you should conduct a DNA test to properly verify the ancestry. Please avoid unnecessary battle of sources and editing. WP:VIP Mustaeen Yousafzai (talk) 15:23, 29 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Mustaeen Yousafzai I see, you have re-added colonial sources. I request you to revert this, because that's against WP guidelines regarding reliable sources. Sutyarashi (talk) 15:52, 29 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttps://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1kIfgsWbSoCVGdNVk5xN2k3QVk/view?fbclid=IwAR3BRECuhjlvJF7eRyqXblHTTOoSp5ibJWxwhbGlT6Xg_N2Ysuam7nn1uwE

[2] ttps://books.google.com.pk/books?id=f5uSeJCTvKoC&pg=PA42#v=onepage&q&f=false

[1]

[2]