This article is within the scope of WikiProject Iran, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles related to Iran on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please join the project where you can contribute to the discussions and help with our open tasks.IranWikipedia:WikiProject IranTemplate:WikiProject IranIran
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Poetry, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of poetry on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoetryWikipedia:WikiProject PoetryTemplate:WikiProject PoetryPoetry
@Pirhayati: I see that you have changed the title of this article and other poems of Hafez from short forms ("Sālhā del talab-ē jām" etc.) to very long ones. Is there any reason for this? I think that I much preferred the original short titles, which are much less of a mouthful and easier to type without making an error. In the same way we often refer to Christian hymns, such as "Abide with Me" or "O Come, All Ye Faithful" by the first few words of their first lines, not the entire line. I wonder if anyone else has an opinion. Kanjuzi (talk) 18:53, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Kanjuzi Hi. The short titles were meaningless parts of the poems. "Sālhā del talab" is meaningless in Persian. The shortest meaningful part is the current title. At least one reliable source should refer to the poem using the short title if we are to use it. Ali Pirhayati (talk) 20:49, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Pirhayati Actually, the original title was not "Sālhā del talab", which I agree is not complete, but "Salhā del dar talab-ē jām" ("For years my heart in search of the cup") which would easily be recognisable to anyone who has read Hafez. I agree that "Once in Royal" would not be a satisfactory name for an article on the hymn "Once in Royal David's City", since it is incomplete. But even "Sālhā del" ("For years my heart") would be a satisfactory title, I think; since the poem is so famous, I am sure that most Iranians would recognise it. Does anyone else agree? Some poems can be known by just two or three words, like "Arma virumque cano". Kanjuzi (talk) 21:34, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Original title was "Sālhā del" which is not "satisfactory". As I said, we should have a reliable source for the title. Recognisability is not the first criterion for choosing titles. Ali Pirhayati (talk) 09:51, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Pirhayati "Sālhā del" would in fact be sufficient: if you enter سالها دل into Google, it brings up this poem straightaway. At any rate, I think the present title is too long, and too cumbersome when you enter it on another page as a wikilink. One might call it "Jām-ē Jam" but Hafez uses that phrase elsewhere, e.g. ghazals 119 and 144, so that won't do. Arberry calls it دل شیدا, but that phrase also occurs in other ghazals. It would be interesting to hear the opinions of other users too. Kanjuzi (talk) 12:34, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
