Talk:Russian Orthodox Church/Archive 3

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Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Persecution

OK, Tempus. Made your edits at the section to seek consensus, but blanking is usually considered vandalism unless it is removal of ridiculous fringe information or violation of editing privileges. You are trying to block the mentioning of information of a dozen of sources possibly due to a lack of neutrality and so far have not provided any rational reason for removing.--83.148.69.4 (talk) 12:18, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

Rational reason is that all of your sources is not authority. Ф. Е. Мельников, Иоанн (Береславский) and Илия (Попов) are not a specialists. Е. Ф. Грекулов was the atheist propagandist. Besides a lot of russian historics argues, that Грекулов was engaged, not used to sourses from archives and sometimes engaged in outright falsification. --Tempus (talk) 12:50, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

Once content is challenged by reversion it should normally not be reinserted w/o some form of consensus. Exceptions do exist for cases of obvious vandalism. That said I think the section looked highly POV in its wording to me. I don't have anything close to an adequate command of Russian to allow me to express an opinion on the sources but I do think that this needs to be discussed here before we reintroduce such obviously controversial material. If necessary we can post an RFC and ping any relevant wiki-projects. I've already requested a review of the sources at two. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:10, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

It's great if you have debunking sources to add next to the rest of the information. It doesn't mean it's best to blank many sources about the event that are very frequently and easily to be found, so the topic should be mentioned in some article.--83.148.69.4 (talk) 21:35, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

We don't post controversial claims unless they are cited to unimpeachably reliable sources. Questions have been raised about these and until they are resolved we need to err on the side of caution. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:11, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

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"KGB links"

Why do we have so much space dedicated to this gibberish? The Russian state has always had a heavy involvement in the Church, so why would it be any different under the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic, once the more counter-revolutionary feudal element had been removed? We do not mention on the article of the Church of England (a completely artificial religion) its links to British intelligence, its control by the British state and its historical involvement in Freemasonry. Similarly, we do not mention on the various completely artificial American Protestant sects, their links to the CIA when operating abroad. Essentially this is Cold War reds-under-the-bed stuff and shouldn't be sensationalised in the article. Claíomh Solais (talk) 20:05, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

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Nominated at ITN

{{ITN nom}} -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:19, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

Membership of ROC

Based on authoritative sources, the maximum total estimate for the adherents of ROC, including the various autonomous churches canonically linked to it is 111.18 million. The membership of ROC as per the most reliable sources varies between 41 to 74 percent of the Russian national population (146.7 million as of 2020) and is commonly approximated to 100 million. Please check the sources on religion in articles Russia and Religion in Russia, as well as the new ones in this article. The total membership of the various autonomous churches worldwide, which are canonically linked to the Moscow Patriarchate, is another 11.18 million. This 11.18 million was arrived at by the adding the membership figures as reported by sources, in the respective pages for these autonomous churches, as well as in the List of Christian denominations by number of members. Check out those sources and also the total Eastern Orthodox membership explained in Talk:List of Christian denominations by number of members. Please note that this approximated membership of 112 million for ROC is about 50% of all global Eastern Orthodox adherents, estimated by sources between 200 to 230 million.--Longsword9 (talk) 06:37, 17 May 2020 (UTC)