Talk:Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner

In the song it is said Norway’s bravest son

Land of the midnight Sun

There is nothing in the song that indicates that Roland is specifically from Norway, its just as probable that he is from Sweden. Check out: http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Land_of_the_midnight_sun

Actually, the song mentions him being "Norway's bravest son." --Musicnaut 10:40, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Regarding the Historical Perspective

Zevon performed this song in Siges, Spain in an expat English/Irish Pub in the late summer of '73 or 4. The owner was David Lindell, an ex-merc (in Africa) - or so the mystique went. All over Europe that summer, word of mouth for the English-speaking transients was, 'if you go to Spain you've got to go to Siges (V. low-end Costa Brava) & see this guy who plays at the pub - if he's not to wasted.' Zevon & Lindell had great rapport. As I recall, Zevon would occasionally transpose words e.g "That Son-of-a Bitch Dave Lindell blew off Roland's (or Zevon's) head". depending on how drunk & raucous the crowd was, replete with 'outrage', threats, sing-along chorus, v. heavy drinking etc. Anyway, I was as hammered as anyone so my accuracy here is suspect. - I had to Google up the Bar owner's actual name.

You write that Zevon used some poetic license regarding the dates; I wonder if it was meant more to emphasize the "hidden" nature of some of the operations that _must_ have been going on, especially with CIA involvement. Of course, I can't prove any of that; but isn't that the point?

If you listen to the split chorus, you hear the line "... another peaceful war." One interpretation of this is that a real war in the guise of a false peace is going on. The whole song is about how ridiculous this kind of thinking is, and how war never really ends. - StMarc

There's a lot of poetic license in describing someone as a "Thompson Gunner." A Thompson isn't exactly a crew-served weapon - it's a SMG, firing a pistol cartridge. It's a close-engagement weapon with little accuracy & before modern assault weapons that put the gunner at high risk

The thing is almost universally referred to as a Thompson gun. A person who uses a Thompson gun is a Thompson gunner. It's quite correct that by standard military usage, a Thompson SMG is not a "gun," nor is the person who uses it a "gunner," but of all the things in this song to pick on, that's way down the list. -StMarc

Although the Thompson was pretty much obsolete by the 1960s, Larry Devlin, CIA chief of station in Leopoldville from 1960-67, claims to have illicitly purchased one from a mutinous Congolese soldier. [1]

They are not used by any active-duty military in the world and haven't been for decades, but they are almost legendary for their durability and the cartridge they fire (.45 ACP) is one of the most readily available on Earth. At the time of the song WWII had only been over for 25 years, tens of thousands of them were probably available and in use. -StMarc

The Balkans wars were full of the things in the 1990s- Yugoslavia had a large inventory of them in storage after WWII. The Shermans and Thompsons and such all used in Kelly's Heroes were Yugoslav equipment when it was filmed there. And like a lot of other ex-American equipment it came out for their civil wars when they wanted anything that would sling a bullet.WiseguyThreeOne (talk) 02:26, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

I had always believed that this song was a modern reworking of The Song of Roland, the French epic poem. Does anyone else share this opinion, or think it holds up enough to be added to the entry as a possible inspiration for the song? - Troutmasquerade

I'm looking for references to that effect, as I've heard this was the case as well. So far: [2] --Davecampbell 23:20, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

The tale of Childe Roland has inspired innumerable stories about fighting men, but sometimes, about the only similarity is a fighting man named Roland. This seems like one of those times. - StMarc

The one that comes to mind is of Ogier the Dane. While I'm not going to run down the sources, many of those old stories were told in different guises in different countries and then re-compounded in to one ( the nebligunglied, the volsunga saga, etc when most of what most people know today is Wagner) that is what comes down to us today. While in chanson de Roland Ogier is only a side kick, in the story as told in the land of the midnight sun he was probably Roland himself. -- 75.191.151.75 (talk) 04:20, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Mercenaries

The paragraph about mercenaries toward the end seems a bit of a digression - one which I'm happy to contribute to on this page. ;-) Perhaps some note ought to be taken of some of the "contractors" employed in Iraq. --Davecampbell 23:46, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Total different situation and any reference would be a biased reach at best.Towers84 20:59, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Sarcasm

I think the article describes the song as far too heroic in nature. I'm pretty sure the meaning of the song is actually pretty sarcastic on a lot of levels - Roland is actually a pretty despicable figure, which I think is the actual point of the song. Think of the last few lyrics:

Roland the headless Thompson gunner... The eternal Thompson gunner still wandering through the night Now it's ten years later but he still keeps up the fight In Ireland, in Lebanon, in Palestine and Berkeley Patty Hearst heard the burst of Roland's Thompson gun and bought it

I think the article should be edited to make the ambiguous and often sarcastic nature of the song more obvious. Thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.177.41.209 (talk) 16:59, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Bought "it". as the idea, or "bought it" , as in "bought the farm"? Zevon often uses puns. Pustelnik (talk) 00:05, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Also perhaps a reference to the Hearst Millions (billions?)? Why not? Carptrash (talk) 02:14, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Or perhaps "bought it" means "accepted it" or "bought [into] it." The reference to each of those hotspots is symbolizing the decent of struggle into violence (since Roland was a merchant of violence). So I see it as a cynical reference to Hearst implying that she was a willing participant in the violence. Jockm (talk) 00:57, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Depends on your perspective. "and to help out the congelese" not violence for the sake of violence but ( earn a living) and help a cause. If the CIA and their puppet Van Own ( who is painted as less moral than Roland if only because he killed his comrade, just money and spent in drinking gin) then I see the listing of freedom fighters at the end as a group whom Roland continues to inspire, even if it doesn't always end well. The song is ambigious enough to read it as you like75.191.151.75 (talk) 04:25, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Wrong David

David Lindley may be a musician, but David Lindell was a mercenary. I removed: "Zevon met co-writer Lindley in Los Angeles where Lindley often collaborated with Jackson Browne, Linda Ronstadt, Leonard Cohen and other folk rock and alt rock musicians. David Lindley and his band El Rayo X recorded and performed several Zevon covers including lawyers guns and money and werewolves of London. If Mr. Zevon portrayed David as an ex-mercenary he was yanking someone's chain. David lindley was one of many fellow musicians playing with Warren onhis final public performance." Pustelnik (talk) 01:41, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Army cadence

I believe that Zevon borrowed most of this song from an Army cadence that I know was in use in '73. He added the last verse, but the rest of the words are identical. I've heard, but can't be certain that Roland and Van Owen were real men, but the story fits the Headless Horseman and Song of Roland mold pretty well, too. Drgn31 (talk) 16:40, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Regarding the Introduction

It is not exactly a revelation that Zevon performed the song on Letterman "before his death in 2003." Most performers do not perform after their deaths so this is not a bolt from the blue. Perhaps "shortly before his death" would be better? 24.22.166.163 (talk) 15:16, 1 February 2011 (UTC)uvaphdman

Yeah, feel free to change that, if you like. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 05:47, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Revenge

It's interesting that the lyrics say he "blew Van Owen's body / From there to Johannesburg." Given that Zevon specifies "blew his body," there seems to be an implication that he may not have blown the head. Did Roland keep the head to replace the one Van Owen shot off?

Wild-ass speculation, I know. Anyone heard of this elsewhere, perhaps in a reliable source?

*Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 22:21, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

Nibelungenlied

There is no such thing as the neblinunglied!

ES 213.49.239.139 (talk) 13:56, 21 May 2022 (UTC)