Talk:Roger Crozier

Some Junior Leagues are considered "Professional"

Current revision by Mr Pyles: corrected opening paragraph(junior isn't 'pro' )

Junior, particulary Canadian "Major Junior" is considered "professional" by the NCAA for instance. I'm not sure of where the Teepees were at the time, but according to several biographies, he was playing "pro" hockey. --Jleous 07:05, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Major Junior players here in Canada do not receive a salary for playing. They get their meals and living arrangements paid for. Plus they receive a modest weekly 'living allowance', but do not have to claim it as income. The 'pro' mentioned in Crozier bios refers to his years spent with the Buffalo Bisons and Pittsburgh Hornets in the AHL. And the Sault Ste. Marie Thunderbirds of the EPHL. He spent 3 years in total in those 2 leagues before moving up to the NHL Mr Pyles

Strange about the way he died

I don't know anything about this man, but I noticed his name while browsing Category:Pancreatic cancer deaths. He's listed under R instead of C. Which doesn't seem to matter that much because after a short skim of the article it looks like he died of prostate cancer? 66.82.9.104 17:48, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

I fixed it. It is in the article now. David McNamara 09:11, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 03:57, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Roger Crozier/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: TonyTheTiger (talk · contribs) 06:33, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Although, I am a Sabres fan who started following hockey sometime between 1973 and 1975, I feel I can review this article fairly, so I will give it a shot.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 06:33, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Allright, thanks! Heroman26 (talk) 02:23, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

• GENERAL COMMENT In general, I would like to see the team season when appropriate. "Red Wings squared off against the Montreal Canadiens in the 1966 Stanley Cup Finals" should not link to the same Canadiens article that " In the first round, they were matched up against the Montreal Canadiens." when we are seven seasons apart. I have had issue with some WP:HOCKEY editors in this regard. When you are talking about a specific game or series opponent it should link to a team season, IMO.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 19:28, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, I added this to the article. Heroman26 (talk) 21:48, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

• First glance tells me this article is not up to snuff. Reread WP:WIAGA. This article needs to completely cover the story.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:28, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
• Article needs a background section. Recall that the WP:LEAD is suppose to summarize the article. Thus, the main body of the article should tell us where he was born in at least as great detail as the lead that summarizes it.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:28, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
• You should have asked the local sources the name of his town's team.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:16, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
• Did they play in a notable league?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:16, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
• Am I correct to infer that senior is above junior hockey level?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:16, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
• Tell us where he was raised. Many people were born and raised in different places.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:28, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
  • Then when you talk about "his town", it will tell us something.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 16:01, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
• Find his parents names and hopefully occupation and ethnicity.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:28, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

• My first important hockey memories were the 1975 Stanley Cup playoffs and my earliest significant sports playoff memories were this season (apologies to the 1973–74 Buffalo Braves, but I don't remember anything from those playoffs). I sort of remember Gare's OT goal (IIRC, it was a rush with Rammer and Luce and he shot a wristshot from the wing). and definitely remember thinking tanks were going to overtake our city because we lost the war in the end (I was 9 and a little confused about geopolitical wars and the wars described on my sports pages). I don't understand how this article could be complete without mentioning the name Gerry Desjardins. What happened that Desjardins got over 70% of the playoff minutes after only playing 9 regular season games. I actually remember Desjardins as my team's first goaltender. Please tell me why this is.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:28, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
  • Sorry about the Desjardins thing. I had a typo in my search bar.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:50, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
• Are we missing the beginning of the 62-63 season?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 16:07, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

I've added the names of his wife and daughters in the post-career section. Also, I was able to find a little information on his background (when he first started playing goalie and how many siblings he has). My main tool of research is the Internet, and I haven't been able to find any mention of his parents at all. Maybe in books there will be some mention of them but I don't have the books. Also, I believe I did cover the beginning of the 62-63 season. It should be the first two sentences of Early Career. If the problems were not fully addressed or if there are more please tell me. Thanks!Heroman26 (talk) 00:37, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

The fact that you are limited to the internet does not diminish your responsibility to meet WP:WIAGA. You will need to find a source of information from his local newspapers or something to identify his parents. Can you contact the local library from his area of origin.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:44, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

• OK, I'll email the Bracebridge Public Library about this and hopefully they can provide me with a good answer. Heroman26 (talk) 05:04, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

• Is "Crozier would be the last NHL goaltender to start all of his team's games during the regular season." a LEADworth fact? I sort of think so, but am open to an argument to the contrary.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 19:06, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
  • Something like "was the first player ever to win the Conn Smythe Trophy while playing on the losing team and remains the last NHL goaltender to have started all of his team's regular season games" would be O.K. by me.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 19:15, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
• "Crozier suffered a leg injury which seemed to lower the Red Wings' morale for the rest of the series" needs a WP:IC and probably some quotes in order to remain in its entirety. I just don't see the connection between an injury and team morale in professional sports. Injuries are a part of the game.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 19:09, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

The source for this is source #16. It's right after the next sentence after it. The source covers both sentences so I put it after the second one. Heroman26 (talk) 21:48, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

• Link MBNA on first use.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 19:37, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Got it. Heroman26 (talk) 21:48, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

• I got the names of his parents from the Bracebridge Library archives. Heroman26 (talk) 21:48, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
  • Is Austin a nickname or a maiden name?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:01, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
    • It's a nickname. Heroman26 (talk) 02:24, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Images

• Main image is FU for a player who has been deceased 20 years.
• The other image (File:Hhof calder.jpg) is free.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:42, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

• Anything else to be fixed? Heroman26 (talk) 03:21, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
  • I am going to fail this. This article needs some fresh eyes.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:17, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
    • Ok, thank you for your time in assessing this article. I'll take all your suggestions and implement them in the article (the background section needs the most work obviously). Hopefully in the future after all these fixes, this article will be at GA status. Heroman26 (talk) 02:48, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Roger Crozier/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Harrias (talk · contribs) 10:10, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

• No disambiguation links or dead links.
• Images need alternative text.
  • I changed the texts, hope they're good enough. Heroman26 (talk) 22:53, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
    • Sorry, my apologies, I should have explained that clearer. The captions were fine, but the images need Wikipedia:Alternative text for images. Harrias ^talk 10:00, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
• A lot of the teams are linked multiple times: go through and make sure each team is only linked on its first use.
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• No need to capitalise "game" in "Game 4" and "Game 5" for the finals, and the numbers should be spelt out, so "Game 4" should be "game four" for example.
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Lead

• Per WP:OPENPARA, the location of birth and death should not be included in the opening brackets.
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• "..during the regular season doing so in 1965–66." Comma needed before "doing so".
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• Link pancreatitis.
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• Why in "(1965–66 and in 1974–75)" does the first link go to the relevant article for the Finals, but the second links to the whole season article?
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• "His health problems would lead to his.." Should be "His health problems led to his.."
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Background

• "His mother was Mildred "Austin" Crozier.." Was Austin her nickname? If it was her maiden name, then render it as "His mother was Mildred Crozier (née Austin).."
  • Austin was her nickname. Should I include it somewhere? Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Early career

• Is there a more specific link that can be used for Ulcer?
  • I'll try to find the specific type of ulcer Crozier had. So far, I've only seen other research only write ulcer. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• As you use OHA, you need to mention this acronym after "the Ontario Hockey Association" in the first sentence of the section. Similar for AHL and EPHL later.
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• "..to fill in for injured starting goaltender.." Missing a word, would read better as "..to fill in for their injured starting goaltender.."
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• Even though you link it, spell out GAA on the first use.
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Detroit Red Wings (1963–70)

• "..turned full-time pro.." Expand pro to professional.
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• "..as he suited up.." This terminology is not going to be familiar to a layperson. I would stick with the admittedly blander "..as he played.."
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• "..star goaltender.." Avoid peacock terms.
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• Second link to 1963–64 NHL season is not needed.
  • Sory, second link was supposed to link to 1963–64 AHL season. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• "..Crozier was called up to replace." Missing word at the end of this: "..replace him." Mabye?
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• "During Crozier's time with the Red Wings, he convinced their management that he was the next to be." What does this mean? Needs rewriting to explain the point it is trying to make.
  • I reworded it into "Although Crozier played in only 15 games, he impressed management enough that they decided he was going to be their next starting goaltender.". Hopes this makes more sense. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• "During the off-season, Sawchuk was left unprotected during the intraleague waiver draft, .." This needs to be explained, either through links or a note for laypeople.
  • I linked it to waivers (NHL). This should explain the concept of waivers. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• Throughout the article the links to NHL seasons should be tidied, so that they don't redirect through the page with a hyphen, but go directly to the page with an endash.
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• Link shutout on its first use.
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• "Crozier would be the last NHL goaltender to start all of his team's games during the regular season." This would read a lot better rephrased to something like: "Crozier remains the most recent NHL goaltender to start.."
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• "At season's end, .." Should either be "At the season's end, .." or "At the end of the season, .."
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• Does "Following his rookie season, .." Mean his second season? It isn't entirely clear.
  • I changed it to "sophomore season". Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• "..the Red Wings made it deep in the playoffs." This doesn't really seem encyclopaedic language.
  • Reworded into "the Red Wings advanced to the Stanley Cup Finals.". Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• "..suffered a leg injury which seemed to lower the Red Wings' morale.." According to who? Opinion like this needs to be attributed in the text, or it seems like WP:OR.
  • I just deleted the sentence. It is from source 17 though. Heroman26 (talk) 21:29, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
• "Although Crozier would return for.." should be "Although Crozier returned for.."
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• "(playoffs MVP)" MVP needs to be expanded.
  • Changed it to "Even though Detroit lost the Stanley Cup, Crozier was awarded the Conn Smythe Trophy, which is awarded to the most valuable player in the playoffs.". Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• "..Crozier started only 58 of the Red Wings games.." Out of how many?
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• "The Red Wings would also miss the playoffs." Again, should be "The Red Wings missed the playoffs."
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• "His announcement was short-lived however, as after six weeks.." No need for "however".
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• "..before returning with the Red Wings." I think "with" should be replaced with "to"
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• "Crozier would spend two more seasons on a mediocre Red Wings team.." "would spend" should be "spent".
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Buffalo Sabres and Washington Capitals (1970–77)

• "Crozier would finish the season.." should be "Crozier finished the season.."
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• "..with a 9-20-7 record.." use endashes rather than hyphens, and explain this notation. Outside of North America, it isn't commonly used.
  • Fixed the hyphens. I rewrote it into "Crozier finished the season with a 9–20–7 record (win-loss-tie)". Hope this clarifies it. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• "..finishing 5th in.." fifth, not 5th.
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• "..with 16 only." Remove "only" which is redundant.
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• "..posted a 13-34-14 record.." as above.
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• "He also faced 2,190 shots.." "also" is redundant and can be removed.
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• "Crozier would see his playing time.." should be "Crozier saw his playing time.."
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• "..rank 1st in.." Should be "..rank first in.."
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• Generally the part of the article about the "Fog game" needs to be toned down a little: "infamous" and "dramatically" are both peacocky terms, and "the temperature skyrocketed" is not encyclopaedic language. "The next two periods saw Crozier allowing one goal, .." Would be better phrased, "Over the next two periods, Crozier allowed one goal, .."
  • Shortened and fixed the "unencyclopaedic" language. It is now written as "Game three of the Finals in Buffalo was known as the "Fog Game". A heat wave in May hit the arena and with no air conditioning inside, the temperature increased. Fog started to develop and soon visibility decreased. Gerry Desjardins was the starting goaltender but after allowing three goals in the first period, he was replaced by Crozier. Crozier allowed one goal during the rest of the game, helping his team win 5–4 in overtime.". Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• "Crozier was allowed to start.." Would "selected" be better than "allowed" here?
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• "He would play only three games.." Should be "He played only three games.."
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Post-career

• "..Capitals would pick.." Should be "..Capitals picked.."
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• "..unveiled the Roger Crozier Saving Grace Award given annually.." The award should not be emboldened.
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Career statistics

• Needs to be referenced.
  • Fixed Heroman26 (talk) 22:53, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Awards

• Needs to be referenced.
  • Fixed Heroman26 (talk) 22:53, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

See also

• I'm not sure that the Hap Holmes Memorial Award is relevant enough to this article to warrant a "See also" link?
  • I deleted the "See also" section. This section was here way before I started rewriting the article. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

References

• Generally very good: links to the newspapers etc. would be useful, and in a few cases extra information should be added.
  • Fixed. (talk) 00:20, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• Ref #3 is missing the author's name.
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• What makes "sabreslegends.com" a reliable source?
  • Sorry, I can't find any reliable credentials for the website. Should I remove all info that can not be backed up by sources other than "sabreslegends.com". Heroman26 (talk) 00:20, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
    • None of the information that this is supporting looks particularly contentious, but if you can find another source that supports the same information, that would be better, particularly if you want to move the article on to Featured status. Harrias ^talk 10:00, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
• Ref #13 is missing the author's name.
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• Ref #16 is missing the author's name, and the title needs the hyphen changing to an endash.
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• Ref #25 is missing the author's name.
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• Refs #34 and 35 are the same article. Harrias ^talk 11:14, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
  • Fixed. Heroman26 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• I've made all the recommended fixes. Hope they're good enough. Heroman26 (talk) 21:29, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your work, there are only a couple of minor points remaining, but the article is certainly of Good quality already. I will trust that you will sort out the ALT text, and the information provided by sabreslegends.com, but I am happy to promote the article to Good status in the meantime. Well done. Harrias ^talk 10:00, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

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"While playing in the minors, Crozier adopted the butterfly style of goaltending, which he used during his NHL career. Glenn Hall had made this technique popular and Crozier improved upon it.[2]"

This statement is ridiculous. Crozier did not improve the butterfly style over Glenn Hall. Hall was a considerably better goalie than Crozier. Crozier was a farm hand behind Hall with Chicago. This article is far too fan-girlish and lacks objectivity. Helmut Hedd (talk) 15:08, 4 May 2023 (UTC)