Talk:Ray Reardon

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It is in correct to say that Reardon's early World CVhampionship wins were not ranking tournaments for the seedings for each successive World Championship were based on the previous one. This view is supported by most snooker record books.

Tim Sandle

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PICTURE!!

The lead talks about his appearance, find us a picture! 2605:8D80:4C0:A8F4:1190:6BD8:4DED:AD78 (talk) 05:11, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

The current infobox image should probably be removed because the original source file has been deleted (lacking permission), as identified in the image review for John Spencer's FAC. This is a Featured Article so should not be using any dubious images imho. Rodney Baggins (talk) 12:20, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

International Park Drive Championship?

I've been unable to find any sources for the finals below, despite referring to various books and the British Newspaper Archive, so am removing them from the career finals section. If anyone has suitable sources, please add them back in with sources, or let me know what the sources are. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:10, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

• 1971 International Park Drive Championship England John Spencer 4–0 (Perhaps this was also known as the Park Drive 600?)
• 1974 International Park Drive Championship – Event 1 John Spencer (ENG) #
• 1974 International Park Drive Championship – Event 2 John Spencer (ENG) #
• 1974 International Park Drive Championship – Event 3 John Spencer (ENG) 2–3

The following is a copy-and-paste from my talk page, as it's relevant to this article.BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 14:03, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

Hello I would like to know why you decided to delete these events as you said it was talked about on the talkpage ?. I don't see anywhere on the talkpage where it said to remove them ?. Lots of tournaments are not sourced for other older players and the events are not removed so these events should remain the same. Older events will sometimes have no source but we are not going to remove events willy nilly. Regards 178.167.231.85 (talk) 13:02, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Please see WP:V. I mentioned it on the talkpage at Talk:Ray_Reardon#International_Park_Drive_Championship? BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 14:24, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

If we can't source it, we shouldn't have it on the encyclopedia. Just because other pages have things unsourced, doesn't mean that this one should have as well. Please read WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:45, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

I've double checked Snooker Scene for the whole of 1974 and the start of 1975 and there is no reference at all to these, even though the magazine covered many small tournaments and even reported on some money matches. Unless there is any evidence that these events happened, I'll remove them in the next day or so. As per WP:V mentioned above, Wikipedia "content is determined by previously published information rather than the beliefs or experiences of editors. Even if you are sure something is true, it must be verifiable before you can add it". I'll copy the conversation here to the talkpage there, too. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:40, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

(Copy-and-paste ends)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Ray Reardon/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Lee Vilenski (talk · contribs) 21:18, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Hello, I am planning on reviewing this article for GA Status, over the next couple of days. Thank you for nominating the article for GA status. I hope I will learn some new information, and that my feedback is helpful.

If nominators or editors could refrain from updating the particular section that I am updating until it is complete, I would appreciate it to remove a edit conflict. Please address concerns in the section that has been completed above (If I've raised concerns up to references, feel free to comment on things like the lede.)

I generally provide an overview of things I read through the article on a first glance. Then do a thorough sweep of the article after the feedback is addressed. After this, I will present the pass/failure. I may use strikethrough tags when concerns are met. Even if something is obvious why my concern is met, please leave a message as courtesy.

Best of luck! you can also use the {{done}} tag to state when something is addressed. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)}

Please let me know after the review is done, if you were happy with the review! Obviously this is regarding the article's quality, however, I want to be happy and civil to all, so let me know if I have done a good job, regardless of the article's outcome.

Prose

Lede

• winning six World Championships, - winning the World Snooker Championship on six occasions. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:57, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
• 1978, and runner-up in the 1982 World Championship. - 1982 event. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:57, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
• I think the lede should mention his highest break. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:57, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

General

• link cue sports Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:09, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
• uthors Luke Williams and Paul Gadsby (2005) claim - do we need the year? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:09, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
• snooker. [2] - spacing issue. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:09, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
• British Junior (under 19) - probably doesn't need to be in brackets. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:09, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
• in a succession of money matches as well as facing his several times in amateur tournaments - something is wrong here. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:09, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
• Worth mentioning what he did between '57 and '64? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:09, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
• was in 1969, - pipes to a redirect. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:09, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
• He lost his first match at the 1972 World Snooker Championship, 22–25 to Rex Williams in the quarter-finals.[24] He reached - feels a bit WP:PROSELINEy to me. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:09, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
• In January 1976, Reardon appeared on This is Your Life, with guests including Spencer, Charlton, Higgins, Pulman, Miles, Jackie Rea, Cliff Thorburn and Joyce Gardner. - could probably go in the legacy section> Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:09, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
• Reardon won his fifth world title at the 1976 World Snooker Championship, defeating John Dunning 15–7, Dennis Taylor 15–2 and Perrie Mans 20–10. During the final, Reardon complained about the television lighting, which was changed, the quality of the table, to which adjustments were subsequently made, and the referee, who was replaced. Higgins - need to state he played Higgins in the final earlier. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:09, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
• 1991 World Championship - link Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:09, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Review meta comments

• I'll begin the review as soon as I can! If you fancy returning the favour, I have a list of nominations for review at WP:GAN and WP:FAC, respectively. I'd be very grateful if you were to complete one of these if you get time. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:18, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the review, Lee Vilenski. I've amended the article in line with your comments. Also added the Park Drive 600 to the list of non-ranking wins. I couldn't find very much on about 1957 to 1964, but I added a few words about him choosing to work on his game, as his non-snooker career is already referred to. Let me know if anything else is required. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 15:59, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
    • Yeah, that's cool. Just wanted something to explain that he wasn't playing. Promoting Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:01, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

Reardon photo

@BennyOnTheLoose: Re. your question on my Talk page about the photo you found. My response: Goodness gracious me, is that really Reardon!? The quality is quite poor but the main problem is that the right-hand man is pretty unrecognisable as Reardon – he'd only be 17 in that picture (Oct 1949) and most people remember him as a middle-aged man. We might be able to add it into the article next to the amateur career section, but I don't think it would be great in the infobox! I'd be interested to hear what anyone else thinks though. Rodney Baggins (talk) 13:58, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Can you not just crop this image?

thumb Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 07:45, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

@Rodney Baggins: I had in mind to use it for early career, it's definitely not infobox quality. I wonder if there's a sufficient case for using a non-free image (not in the infobox) under WP:NFC#CS or WP:NFCI, perhaps alongside something like this? His appearance, and the references to Dracula, are the subject of comment in multiple sources.(One example: "Reardon, with his predatory prowl, raven's eyes and sleek black hair has been Dracula, gobbling up reds and black...." (Everton, Clive. "Reardon is champion of the box." Sunday Times, 30 Apr. 1978, p. 30)) BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:10, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

I'd agree to using the 1949 picture in the early career section, and Lee's image in the infobox. How do you go about cropping an image off Commons? Not keen on the idea of using a picture of Dracula, let's err on the side of caution and stick to Reardon pics. There are loads of pictures of him out there – could we not approach any of the copyright owners or is that a no-no and against Wiki policy? There's a great picture on the Big Red Book website: https://www.bigredbook.info/ray_reardon.html (I couldn't link it because they are currently blacklisted!) Rodney Baggins (talk) 07:17, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

You can approach people - I do sometimes (but with limited success). I'll get someone to do a crop for that one. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:54, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

In the past I've literally just downloaded an image from Commons, cropped it, and uploaded the results, but if we can get someone who knows what they are doing it would be better. Not sure how I managed to miss that image of Reardon when looking, thanks Lee! BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:20, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

I think that's exactly how it's supposed to work, but I think there are probably online tools that also do it. Sedna did this one for us. I'm no image guru, but I do upload the occasional image to commons.Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:32, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

I'm very happy with these photo additions. The only concern I have now is that text/image for Reardon's meetings with Carney in Amateur snooker career section don't match up. Text states: "He reached the final of the 1949–50 under-19 Junior championship, losing 2–3 to Jack Carney." but the image is Reardon's win at 1949 British Boys Snooker Championship, which is not mentioned in the text. Is there any way we can incorporate that win with a source, Benny? Rodney Baggins (talk) 06:45, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

File:Eirian with Ray Reardon.jpg

User:Montgomery15 has rightly pointed out that the photo is not from 2016 (it was just uploaded into Commons in 2016, silly me!) – any ideas when it was taken so we can caption it? Looks to me like maybe late 1980s or early 1990s, judging by how relatively young they both look. Also, Eirian's jacket has the old World Tour badge on it – perhaps that would help timestamp it? I wish we could focus in enough to look at the dates on the noticeboard behind them! Rodney Baggins (talk) 10:17, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

Copyedit for FA nom

Hi Benny, I think I'm done with my copyedit now so we could try nominating it whenever you think it's ready for that. I do have some questions for you.

• The match featured lengthy tactical exchanges between the players, resulting in some of the longest sessions ever recorded in world championship play. – this is a very sweeping, bold statement and probably needs sourcing.

• From; Everton, Clive (February 1969). "Davis wears down Reardon". Billiards and Snooker: "The match contained some of the longest sessions recorded in Championship play."; "The length of the sessions was due to some of the most remarkable tactical play ever seen." Apparently Davis avoided splitting the reds wherever possible, played colours into safe positions, and "battles of attrition inevitably took the edge off Reardon's potting". I've added the citation in at the end of the sentence. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:34, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

• We've mentioned his 1974 & 1975 Pontins Professional titles but missed out his 1976 Pontins title altogether! Seems inconsistent to me.

• Indeed. Now added. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:34, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

• Everton has described Reardon in his early career as a "deadly long potter", and praised his "nerve with which he identified and seizes frame winning openings." – Please can you check out what the source says because there's clearly a tense problem here, it's either "he identified and seized" (past) or "he identifies and seizes" (present) but not "he identified and seizes" (past/present)!

• Whoops. I had typed "identified" instead of "identifies". From the 1985 source: "At the age of 53 ... [he] is never going to be the consistently deadly long potter he was in winning six successive Welsh amateur titles ... or indeed in his early years as a professional." and "But what still marks him at his consumate best is his tactical control, knowledge [sic] shot selection and the nerve with which he identifies and seizes frame-winning openings." BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:34, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, Rodney Baggins (talk) 07:16, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

@Rodney Baggins: Brilliant! hopefully I haven't created too much new work with the amendments. For some reason the Highlight duplicate links script (User:Evad37/duplinks-alt) isn't working properly on the page - can you see anything in the headers that might be creating the problem? I've got an open FAC co-nomination already, but once that closes I think we should be ready. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:34, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

@Rodney Baggins: I've added a bit about TV and radio appearances. Please have a look and feel free to trim or edit it. I discovered today that Reardon released the song "It's Snooker Again" on a single in 1983. There's a mention in the Daily Mirror, 26 April 1983: "the ex-copper certainly has a distinctive voice. But I still think he should stick to the green baize." Anything else to be done before nomination? Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:01, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

@BennyOnTheLoose: Hi Benny, sorry for slow response, been a bit snowed under. (1) I think it would be nice to identify when the infobox photo was taken and give it a caption, but not essential. (2) I flagged above that there's a mismatch between the Jack Carney material: "He reached the final of the 1949–50 under-19 Junior championship, losing 2–3 to Jack Carney." in prose but photo relates to him beating Carney in the 1949 British Boys Snooker Championship (someone might notice that and bring it up). (3) Notes a, k, p & q probably need sources. Other than that, should be fine to go ahead with nom. I can keep an eye on it and help out if, and when, needed. Cheers, Rodney Baggins (talk) 14:15, 23 July 2022 (UTC)