Talk:Rail directions

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Trains: in UK / Operations Mid‑importance

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This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

UK directions

There are a few cases in Britain where an up line suddenly becomes a down, and vice versa. This is usually the site of a former junction, where two routes have been spliced together, but can also be an end-on junction, the most noteable probably being Berwick-upon-Tweed railway station, where the North British and North Eastern met end-on. The reference point may well not be London, but the point of origin of the line, which in the Berwick case is Newcastle from the south and Edinburgh from the north. Mileposts go down in number when travelling in the up direction, and up in number when travelling down. Sources, Rail Atlas of Great Britain and Quail Railway Track Diagrams. LE Greys86.163.211.160 (talk) 00:04, 21 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Rearranging sections

I think we should rearrange the section based on types of rail direction systems they used instead of listing by countries as it is now.

We can have it in 3 main sections, "City center directions", "Geographical directions", and "Circle line directions". The "City center directions" section can have "Up and down", "Even and odd", "Inbound and outbound", "Downtown and uptown" subsections. In those subsections we can give details of all those countries that use those direction systems. Then we can talk about north-, south-, east-, and westbound. In the "Circle line directions" section we can talk about what are called for train running clockwise and counterclockwise.

If nobody has any objection to the above, I can make the change. Z22 (talk) 15:01, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

One additional reason to do as the about so that the redirect pages can work more efficiently. For example, the "Inbound train" page can redirect to Rail directions#Inbound and outbound. This way US rail articles can use the "Inbound train" link if it needs to guide readers on what they are talking about as many people outside of the US are confused about that word. Z22 (talk) 15:04, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good to me. Grouping by concept is a better way of organizing than just cataloging by a random selection of countries. Reify-tech (talk) 21:57, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, it's done. I didn't have time to look for references so I just rearrange things without adding or removing stuff. We should find time of search for references of some of those details. Z22 (talk) 00:48, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Midland Railway

The article currently makes this unreferenced claim (and has done since 2007):

On the former Midland Railway "up" was towards Derby.

According to an extract from the 1899 Midland Railway Appendix published by the Midland Railway Study Centre, up was from Derby towards London (St. Pancras), as you would expect in general. I don't know whether the statement above was true of the MR as a whole at some other time or whether it was intended to refer particularly to the MR routes to the south-west, on which up is, somewhat counter-intuitively, towards Derby. Any ideas? rbrwr ^± 11:09, 15 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The MR wasn't planned as a line to or from London, it was the amalgamation of three railways that all had one end at Derby - by this amalgamation in May 1844, it produced a system with extremities at Nottingham (reached in June 1839), Hampton-in-Arden (August 1839), Rugby (June 1840), Leeds (July 1840), and Birmingham (February 1842). At both Hampton-in-Arden and Rugby, there was a junction with the London and Birmingham Railway, by means of which trains could run from Derby to London Euston. After the amalgamation, the MR opened a line in May 1857 from Leicester to Hitchin, where there was a junction with the Great Northern Railway, by means of which MR trains could reach King's Cross from February 1858. The Midland didn't reach London over its own tracks until July 1868 when the line from Bedford opened, although St Pancras wasn't ready until October 1868. So for something like 24 years, the most important station on the MR was Derby; and moreover "towards London" could have meant any of three different routes: Derby - Hampton-in-Arden; Derby - Leicester - Rugby; and Derby - Leicester - Hitchin. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 17:26, 15 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! It would certainly make sense for up to be towards Derby on the MR. But is the statement true? The MR appendix cited above seems to say no, at least for Derby–Hitchin–St. P. And to muddy the waters further, the MRSC also has an extract from an 1857 appendix which not only seems to show up being towards Hitchin and towards Rugby but also towards Birmingham from both the Bristol and Derby directions! Presumably each predecessor company had its own sense of direction and it took a long time to sort them out. rbrwr ^± 09:09, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]