Talk:Rade Šerbedžija/Archive 1

Archive 1

Biography assessment rating comment

WikiProject Biography Assessment Upgraded to Start class. The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 00:33, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

A Serb and Serbian

Rade was born in Serbian family and is a Serb. During the war he ran as a Serb to Serbia and don't steal, be correct! He can not be Croatian actor just coz he was born and lived in what is today's Croatia. Stop with those unfairness in wikipedia, please!!!!79.101.70.124 (talk) 23:16, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Discussion

Hrvatski mediji redovito vas potpisuju kao hrvatskoga glumca, a srpski mediji kao srpskoga glumca. Što biste vi rekli za sebe: jeste li hrvatski ili srpski glumac?

- Formalno sam slovenski glumac jer tamo mi teče staž i tamo uplaćujem novac u mirovinski fond. Realno, glumio sam na svim prostorima bivše države te sam, na neki način, bio svačiji glumac. Bilo je i godina kada sam postao ničiji glumac, ali danas sam opet svoj na svome, onako kako su me nekada doživljavali moji gledatelji. Najviše sam zapravo bio zagrebački glumac, a i sam osjećam da je u svim mojim množinama taj lik u meni najsnažniji jer glumačka snaga je njegov jezik, a moj jezik je bio i ostao hrvatski. [1]

Goran Obradović added that his name is spelled Раде Шербеџија in Cyrillic, but this is fairly inconsequent because it's rarely used, only when he's mentioned in Serbian texts (as in texts from Serbia) which are tangential to him. Even adaptations like Sherbedgia are more known than the Cyrillic spelling. --Joy [shallot] 23:18, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

How the Hell he can be "Croatian" actor?Even in Crotaian language wikipedia they call him SERB...please,change this!!!Otherwise wikipedia will asure me in that it's not sure encyclopedia...This is not the USA so everyone who come become American...This is Europe and people have own nationality!I can move to Holland get a kid there and my kid will be Serb and Serbian...actor,politic,whatever.And Lika is Serbian land...there is born Nikola Tesla as well,so please...

Haven't you ever heard of Bosnian Croats? Croatian Muslims, or maybe Serbian Croats! The article clearly states that he is of Serbian descent (which indicates that his parents are Serbs). This leaves Croatia as the present-day homeland. It has to be mentioned in some form; there is no harm in it and it would be inappropriate to remove it. As for Lika being Serbian land, unfortunately Aleksandarserbia, it is in Croatia! It serves as nothing more than Serbian unredeemed territory; likewise, Croatia has unredeemed areas within present-day Serbia. In the end of the day, land is land, the local Serb or Croat from Lika both have their reasons why Lika should belong to their respective nation, and on an encyclopaedia, we cannot deem that one is right and the other is wrong. Land is land and people are human, and all nations have their own needs! I'm sure that for the time being, Croatian-Serb fits the bill with regards Rade. Evlekis 16:36, 20 March 2007 (UTC) Евлекис

I disagree. How is this inconsequential? He is an ethnic Serb who happened to be born in an area which is now in the independent Croatia, but which at the time of his birth was a part of Yugoslavia. The fact that he is not known by this name does not justify not including his cyrilic name in the brackets after his bolded name at the beggining of the text. The man is a Serb, and Serbian language is spelled primarely in cyrilic. Furthermore, he is very much a part of public life in Serbia. A glance at the Serbian newspaper proves this. Finally, you shouldn't forget that he has concerts in Serbia on a yearly basis. If I do not hear an argument that makes more sense than the above, I'll be adding the cyrilic name.

--Bora Nesic 03:22, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

I have now placed the cyrilic back into the text, seeing that there were no objections. --Bora Nesic 03:40, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Rade Serbedzija is croatian actor not serbian actor. He might be etnic Serb but he was born in Croatia, speaks Croatian language, made his career in Zagreb (capital of Croatia), acted mostly in Croatian movies and considers him self as Zagreb actor.

He is Serb born in Yugoslavia I don't see how he can be Croatian actor! Vladar86 —Preceding comment was added at 07:04, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

He is a Croatian actor because: 1. He was born in Croatia (yes while it was still part of Yugoslavia); 2. Acted in mostly Croatian movies where he also made his breakthrought in his career; 3. Consideres Croatia his homeland and Croatian language his native language. All these are more than enough to say he is a Croatian actor, he has nothing to do with Serbia. He is Croatian actor and an ethnic Serb. Can you understand that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Raguseo (talk • contribs) 15:40, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

1.He was born in state name YUGOSLAVIA 2. He made his career in Yugoslavian movies, and international career in USA. He also played in few Croatian, Serbian and Macedonian movies. 3. His native language is not important, English is not native language of Arnold Schwarzenegger but still he is American actor. All this is implying that he is Serbian-American actor. Vladar86 —Preceding comment was added at 01:54, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

1.Yes in the federal republic of CROATIA. 2. He made his career acting in Croatian movies, mostly about Croatian history and in Croatian classics. 3. His native language is very important, Rade considers his native language Croatian and his homeland is Croatia. He does not own an American passport and so he is not an American citizen (not an American). Due to all these facts he can be only Croatian actor. That he is of Serbian ethnicity is already mentioned in the article. --Raguseo 09:18, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

I will continue to change his classification to Serbian actor, relating to Serbs as a people not the Republic of Serbia, as the man is ethnically Serbian and there is no way around that. The fact that he was born in Yugoslavia, now Croatia, should indeed be mentioned, but classifying Rade as Croatian is completely inaccurate and is an attempt to falsify history, as was the famous case of Nikola Tesla. Shameful! --24.150.77.3 16:26, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

You do that, I will be here to revert it. Serbedzija was born in Croatia, speaks Croatian and is today a Croatian citizen. He is Croatian in every sense. The fact he is ethnic Serb is mentioned in the article. --89.172.197.160 18:24, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Fully protected - the article has now been fully protected against editing. Please discuss your differences here and try to provide evidence for your claims rather than promising further disruption from all sides. At the very least, agree on maybe some neutral wording as to his disputed ethnicity? Either way, if you wish to have the article unprotected, just add a request to my talk page or to WP:RPP - Alison ^❤ 15:59, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

The evidence is already provided, but the user Vladar86 keeps reverting it to his little own megalomaniac version. Serbedzija was born in Croatia, is Croatian citizen and says he speaks Croatian language. He is an ethnic Serb, no one disputes that but he can never be "Serbian actor", he can only be a Croatian actor. --89.172.225.18 19:53, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

My two cents: if Šerbedžija is Serbian by nationality and Croatian by citizenship, why can't he be included in both Serbian and Croatian categories? It's not like there's a limited number of categories an article can be in. As for the lead-in paragraph, I'd suggest "Rade Šerbedžija... born 27 July 1946 (ref), is an actor and director from Croatia. He comes from an ethnic Serbian family, and was one of the most popular Yugoslav actors in the 1970s and 1980s." Does that bother anyone? --Hyperbole 00:08, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

It sounds reasonably sensible to this neutral observer anyway - Alison ^❤ 00:16, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree as well. Sounds reasonable. The way it is now sounds like a complete parody: "Serbian actor from an ethnic Serb family from Croatia"? WTF? The man was born in Croatia, lives still in Croatia (his children live there also), says he speaks Croatian, is active in Croatian theatre scene, etc. When we talk about cattegories I have nothing against a category saying he is a Serb from Croatia (no one ever denied that). ON the other hand he can never be a Serbian actor because: 1. he doesn't have Serbian citizenship; 2. was not born in Serbia; 3. doesn't even declare he speaks Serbian but Croatian. Eric Bana for example is a Australian actor of Croatian origin, he can never be and will never be a Croatian actor. --89.172.234.226 10:19, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

This is just like with Ivo Andric and Nikola Tesla. You people need to develop your own culture and nation without stealing from Serbs! He is Serbian (Serb person, not necessarily citizen of Serbia) from the State of Croatia. Unless you can get Rade himself to publicy say he is Croatian, your arguments are not valid. Serbian refers to ethnicity, citizenship is another thing. If you wish to mention he is a citizen of Croatia, that is fine. I firmly believe the article needs to stay the way it is NOW! --139.57.44.102 17:07, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

No one is stealing anything from Serbs. Nikola Tesla was a Serb who considered Croatia his homeland (stated in his telegraph to Vlatko Maček) and Ivo Andirć was born to Croatian parents and was declaring himself during his studies in Polan as a Croat. To the matter....Serbedzija publicly said he is speaking Croatian, taking into consideration that he is also Croatian citizen it is clear he is Croatian as in from Croatia. That he is an ethnic Serbs no one denied and is already mentioned in the article. Serbedzija is and can only be Croatian actor. --89.172.200.45 22:01, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm having trouble seeing your objection to my proposed version, which says that he is from Croatia and born into a Serbian family - but avoids explicitly asserting his nationality in a single adjective. --Hyperbole 05:58, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Ivo Andric is bosnian, he is born in Bosnia and spent the rest of his life in Serbia.....his books have always been about Bosnia. I dont se what he has to do with Croatia?! His religion? Maybe every catholic is croat.......although i doubt he ever said he was a catholic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.214.204.23 (talk) 19:30, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh My GOD! Now "bosnian" is an ethnicity???? No it is NOT, Ivo Andric declared himself a Serbian Catholic author. Look it up! He was most certainly NOT a bosniak, and i was talking about his ethnicity and NOT about him being born in Bosnia. I am from Trebinje, that doesn't make me a Herzegovinian, i am a SERB! Thanks! --24.150.77.3 (talk) 19:09, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

To Bora: Does it matter what the name of the country was when he was born? In that case, if his parents are from Serbia, his grandparents were most likely born in the Ottoman Empire, so according to this logic he must be an Ottoman? --84.217.47.194 (talk) 00:05, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

What is the difference between Serb, Croat and Bosniak other than religion, some pronunciation issues, and alphabet? You are essentially the same people, developing differences as you fell under the sway of various outside powers and their religions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.215.63.109 (talk) 19:11, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Year of birth correction

Changed his birth year from 1946 to 1947, his site (Ulysses Theatre) states this year as being his year of birth. 80.7.171.133 22:32, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 16:13, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Missing film

Rade also starred in the New Zealand film Broken English (1996 film) - Typera - 12:48 24-Feb-08

"Serbian and Croatian" section

I removed the following text ("Funny thing about this actor that both of ex-Yugoslavian countries, Serbia and Croatia claims that Šerbedžija is they actor.") because, quite frankly, it is bad and unencyclopedic writing. I moved the referenced part of that section ("he puts his funds in Slovenia but his language is more similar to Croatian") into "Personal life". All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 08:38, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Batman Begins

Is there any story behind his cameo ? -- Beardo (talk) 05:49, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Theatre work

Does he still do theatre in the west ? I remember seeing him in the UK in the 90s. -- Beardo (talk) 05:49, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Ethnicity

The past few weeks have seen nothing but constant edit wars on the ethnicity of Šerbedžija. Some say Serb, others Croat. Rather that IPs constantly changing the text, can you all start to provide sources because this is becoming ridiculous. Evlekis (talk) 21:33, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Return to Croatia

Shouldn't there be a section covering his return and resumption of his career in Croatia? In addition to the theater in Brijuni, he is recording music and releasing CDs and DVDs on the Croatia records. There is no mention of, for example, his album "Imam Pjesmu Za Tebe" (I have a song for you) http://shop.crorec.hr/crorec.hr/ws_o_izdanju.php?IZDANJE_ID=604980&uwe_lang=en —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kadoma (talk • contribs) 14:20, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Croatian actor

Rade is an Croatian actor. He never declared him self as Serb, but he did say he is Croatian actor. In US and in Croatia, he always says he is Croatian actor, and American and Croatian media represent him that way. And Serbs do know, especially Serbian nationalists (who don't like this actor) that he never declared him self Serb neither Serbian actor, even though he is from Serbian family. And I don't need to mention that his doughter Lucija and son Danilo declare them selfs as Croats. --Wustefuchs (talk) 00:04, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Such craziness around here. People do not seem to understand the difference between the terms Croat vs. Croatian, and Serb vs. Serbian. They are not interchangable. Croat and Serb are the ethnicities; Croatian and Serbian are adjectives that describes national origins. For example, I am a Croat from Bosnia and am therefore a Bosnian Croat.... not a "Croatian Bosnian".

At this point, I don't know what countries he is a citizen of. I do know that he is still pretty popular in Croatia and has made donations of time and money to promote theatre arts in Croatia. I would not be surprised if he does the same thing in Serbia. Rade is an artist and probably doesn't care about ethnic description as much as people here.24.235.119.2 (talk) 21:51, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Regarding Ethnicity

Rade Serbedzija is an ethnic Serb - no Croat sees this otherwise. Regarding nationality he is a Yugoslav (Serbs considered Yugoslavia as their home country, not exclusively todays Serbia - about 2 milion Serbs aren't from Serbia, by heritage or otherwise). While Yugoslavia collapsed he lost his nationality like many others.

Todays Croatia was not always an ethnic-pure country, before being a part of Yugoslavia, it build together with todays Bosnia and Slovenia a state called "The State of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes". The most of the purification happend through the croat fascists in the second world war, and was finished in the Yugoslav wars of the 90's. Attrocities of fascist regimes doesn't make this man a Croat. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.82.142.40 (talk) 23:25, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Nobody is claiming he is a Croat. Šerbedžija is a Croatian Serb, which makes him Croatian. Notice the difference between Croat (member of the ethnic group) vs. Croatian (citizen of the country). Timbouctou (talk) 23:47, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Look at the role he plays in Land of Blood and Honey, then consider that once it was safe to do so, he moved back to Croatia (Rijeka), records music for Croatia Records, and invests in Croatian arts; and you will know what he thinks of identifying as a "serb". There is a reason he claims to be a Yugoslav, and avoids the s-word.~~

Serbian cyrillic

It seems this article is under a lot of strain arising from the question of how to properly list Rade's nationality. However, I cannot see why his name needs to be spelled in Serbian cyrillic in the introductory paragraph. He is not a Serbian citizen, and is merely of Serbian ethnicity, so this seems like a completely redundant (and misleading) piece of information. He was, as far as I know (please correct me if I am wrong), never credited in any movies using the cyrillic script. I know many people of Serbian ethnicity in Croatia, and the cyrillic spelling of their name is as formally relevant as the glagolitic spelling of their name. Therefore, I propose this be removed, and urge anyone who opposes this to provide the reasoning as to why this information is relevant. --Shinyshell (talk) 15:01, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

I've come back to this just now, and have concluded that since a simple Google search returns little relevant results for "Раде Шербеџија" (except Serbian and Macedonian web pages), it is safe to remove this piece of data, since there is no reason for it to be there and there seem to be no disagreements on this talk page. --Shinyshell (talk) 20:19, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Rade Šerbedžija/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

== Biography assessment rating comment == WikiProject Biography Assessment Upgraded to Start class. The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 00:33, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Last edited at 00:33, 26 May 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 15:37, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Croatian actor?

How can he be called a Croatian actor, if, as ethnic Serbs and political Yugoslavs, he and his family were expelled from Croatia the minute it seceded from Yugoslavia and gained independence? He was born and had lived in the territory what would become Croatian country in 1991, but modern Croatia gained its independence through violent secession and war against Yugoslav Army ("Greater Serbian aggression") as well as civil war against its Serbian minority ("Greater Serbian rebellion") which ended in mass expulsions. Also, while the ideology of Croatian state within Yugoslavia was that beside Croatians, Serbs were also recognized as a nation in Croatia, and that Croats and Serbs were bounded by 'brotherhood and unity' manifested in one same language and origin, the ideology of contemporary independent Croatian country is quite different, stating a clear line of distinction between the two and taking great pride in Croatian ethnic, linguistic and cultural distinctiveness from Serbs, particularly Serbian ethnic minority in Croatia. He is a Hollywood actor of Serbian origin and ex-Yugoslavian actor... And how should "Croatian actor" be defined in the context of Yugoslavia, since there were no separate ethnic/state theaters or film industries during Yugoslavia, but all the films were considered part of Yugoslavian cinematography, due to mixed and mutual contribution of directors, screenwriters, actors, studios etc. regardless of their ethnic or state background?

Again and again Serbian lies — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.252.237.108 (talk) 06:12, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

This was discussed several times before, look throuigh the archive. Serbedzija is an ethnic Serb from Croatia, which makes him Croatian. He was born in Croatia, he was educated in Croatia, he spent most of his career in Croatia, and even today he splits his time between Hollywood and Croatia and appears in Croatian films and theatre. Everything else is irrelevant here as this article is about the actor, not about political upheavals in the region. Timbouctou (talk) 15:23, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

I too noticed this. I don't intend to get political, but as stated above - and coming from Yugoslavia, I can confirm that - there were no separate or identifiable Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian cinematography within Yugoslavia, no matter where something was filmed, or what was the director's ethnicity. Only after the dissolution of Yugoslavia, it makes sense to call someone or something Serbian or Croatian actor, director, film etc., or if in their entire career they worked locally. Not only Serbedzija, but many others from other Yugoslav republics were active on Yugoslavia-level and are still recognized in all ex-Yugoslav region as domestic actors because of that. It was one market and one cinematography. Just saying "Croatian actor of ethnic Serb origin" implies that he is someone who is characteristic only to Croatia. But Serbedzija is domestic not only to Croatia, but to Serbia, Bosnia, Montenegro... Just 2 cents from a bystander.178.223.70.47 (talk) 16:12, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

It's well documented that he identifies as a "Yugoslav" and has tried his best throughout his career to be apolitical regarding Serbia and Croatia (he is involved in philanthropy in both countries theatres). Although it is true that most people who identify as "Yugoslavs" are Serbs. He was also frequently spotted at Croatian sporting events cheering for Croatia and his son Danilo has openly declared to be Croatian. Certainly how he (Rade) identifies is a personal issue for him and not to be decided on Wikipedia.23.233.17.77 (talk) 22:36, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

You have a misconception of these terms ... Šerbedžija is a Croat citizen, and thus a Croat actor. To be inclusive, the information pertaining to his ethnicity is also listed, albeit not really necessary. Cameosis (talk) 04:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Croatian, not Croat.--Zoupan 06:09, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

In such cases we add ethnicity. He wasnt born in Croatia, it didnt exist as a state, but Yugoslavia. --PetarM (talk) 17:28, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

I'm afraid you are very much mistaken, PetarM. He was born in Croatia, the state did exist and we most certainly do not add ethnicity when the subject is not notable for the ethnicity. Since being a Serb rather than a Croat or an Inuit has meant nothing to Šerbedžija's acting career (for which he is notable) at all, emphasizing it in the lead is hardly helpful. Surtsicna (talk) 18:05, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

Surtsicna i think you dont get it. It was not state, but federal republic. Its should be stated Yugoslav actor, and later Croat, American,... you dont add Kentucky actor, or Wels actor, but American or British actor. --PetarM (talk) 18:46, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

It was a state; thus the State Anti-fascist Council for the National Liberation of Croatia. It was not a country, however. But that's semantics. One could argue that Šerbedžija became internationally notable after Yugoslavia collapsed (which, by the way, occurred in no small part due to the incessant Croat-or-Serb hagglings such as this one). Our article says that he resides in Croatia, so describing him as an American or British actor might not be entirely appropriate. "Yugoslav and Croatian" might work, however. Surtsicna (talk) 22:31, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

personal life

Section was written by someone who obviously can`t make sentences in English properly. Also Operation storm was in May of 1995. in Western Slavonia. So how could his parents flee during that Operation in 1991. from Vinkovci which is in Eastern Slavonia?

I would like to higlight a HUGE mistake in the article, like the person who wrote above me, but to be more precise: Operation Storm has taken place 5.-8. of August 1995. year in areas of nord Dalmacia, Lika and western Slavonia. 82.196.41.196 (talk) 12:56, 26 October 2017 (UTC)i'mformdifferentplaces

References

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