Talk:RTJ4

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the RTJ4 article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Albums

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Albums, an attempt at building a useful resource on recordings from a variety of genres. If you would like to participate, visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.AlbumsWikipedia:WikiProject AlbumsTemplate:WikiProject AlbumsAlbum articles

Hip hop Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hip hop, a collaborative effort to build a useful resource for and improve the coverage of hip hop on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.Hip hopWikipedia:WikiProject Hip hopTemplate:WikiProject Hip hopHip hop articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Title

Should the article title not be RTJ4? Existing metadata suggest the initialism abbreviation rather than the full words; https://music.apple.com/us/album/rtj4/1511168569 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Evilive (talk • contribs) 04:21, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Rick Rubin

Rick Rubin helped produce this album. I don't see anything about it in the entry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TFX (talk • contribs) 17:14, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's because he didn't. They recorded at his studio in Malibu, yes, but he is not listed as a contributor in the booklet they provided with the album. Aria1561 (talk) 01:01, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 3 June 2020

The request to rename this article to RTJ4 has been carried out.

Run the Jewels 4 → RTJ4 – Unlike the three previous albums, the actual name of Run the Jewels's 4th album is simply "RTJ4" rather than "Run the Jewels 4." JNat megaman (talk) 18:09, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Aria1561 (talk) 19:10, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sources for this move: Apple Music, Spotify Aria1561 (talk) 20:40, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I proposed the move, but actually just realized their site sends mixed signals on this... while the url uses "rtj4" (unlike the previous albums, that have the spelled out version), the _actual_ page calls the album "Run the Jewels 4." JNat megaman (talk) 23:04, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Their official Twitter appears to call it "Run the Jewels 4" as well. Sasquatch t|c 00:40, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

But all digital platforms and the free download they provided themselves all call it RTJ4. I'd figure that has the upper hand in this situation. Aria1561 (talk) 00:56, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

All metadata on downloads suggest RTJ4 as well, easy call to for the move imo Evilive (talk) 01:25, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If the artist is using the initialism and full title interchangeably, I don't see any reason to deviate from the titling format of the previous 3 records. It's also worth noting that physical media bears the title 'Run the Jewels 4'. See the image of the cassette tape spine at the link. - Depressed Marvin (talk) 03:37, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 4 September 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Consensus not to move from RTJ4. No such user (talk) 14:22, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

RTJ4 → Run the Jewels 4 – As stated on the group's website, it's is being advertised in full title The group it self is also advertising as it in full title, such as on Facebook and Twitter. 2001:8003:339D:F400:8809:243B:97A:36B8 (talk) 06:23, 4 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. iTunes, Spotify, Tidal, and multiple other sources labeled the album as RTJ4. Facebook and Twitter is not enough for page move. TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 06:55, 4 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Question/comment, what about their website? How is it not enough if it's coming from the direct source? Plus, to me it seems like multiple sources lists them as both, example here and here. With varying sources listing them in full title (including direct source) and shortened name, wouldn't it be better to call it in full? 2001:8003:339D:F400:8809:243B:97A:36B8 (talk) 07:17, 4 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Their website still marketing the album as RTJ4 not Run the Jewels 4. Plus, a very few sources don't count, there's still a lot more sources prefer the title of the album was first called when it was released. TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 04:09, 5 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging @Binksternet:, @Isento:, @Aria1561: and @Sock: in to this discussion. Should the article's title be change to Run the Jewels 4? TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 07:35, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support Per what the original requester has said and provided, it seems like the media uses both the full and shortened title. That being said, the direct source uses the full title, too. Even their older titles and the group name get shortened (RTJ, RTJ2, etc...), but those titles are kept in full names. So I support changing to full title. --49.181.248.177 (talk) 22:21, 4 September 2020 (UTC) — 49.181.248.177 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
Oppose. Reliable sources use RTJ4, which was the name the album was first called when it was released. For example, Pitchfork calls this "RTJ4" while also referencing "Run the Jewels 3" [1] -- Calidum 03:34, 5 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support. As a rule, abbreviations for titles are a bad idea. Here, the sources even use the proposed. The abbreviation is good for repeated use, which does not include article titles. -SmokeyJoe (talk) 07:12, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. It is no exaggeration to say that nearly all reliable sources use "RTJ4" as the official title. Every review, interview, and press release uses "RTJ4" with the lone exceptions being the two announcement posts of the album dropping early. It is both officially and commonly known as RTJ4. Sock (~~tock~~ talk) 13:46, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The Billboard Chart History webpage settles it for me. Run the Jewels 2 and Run the Jewels 3 are all spelled out but RTJ4 is abbreviated. We should keep abbreviated. Binksternet (talk) 14:24, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose — While the duo have stated that the album can be called either RTJ4 or Run the Jewels 4, they themselves allowed the album to be marketed on all platforms as RTJ4 only. It is the official title, as well as the common title, of the album and the most accurate choice for the article title. Aria1561 (talk) 14:27, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Few people have received the physical copy (vinyl and CD) and it is reported that it is listed as Run the Jewels 4 on the spine. @TheAmazingPeanuts: @Calidum: @Sock: @Binksternet: @Aria1561: 2001:8003:339D:F400:259A:5305:8A54:A3D5 (talk) 00:51, 9 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I received my copy of the vinyl today. The spine does indeed say "Run the Jewels 4", but I maintain my previous position that it is overwhelmingly the WP:COMMONNAME to use RTJ4. I would, however, support that a note should be added that the physical copies display the title written out. Sock (~~tock~~ talk) 01:22, 9 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Sock: I made this edit, what do you think of it? TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 02:31, 9 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@TheAmazingPeanuts: Perhaps this is overkill, but I think this edit with a note is a good compromise. Sock (~~tock~~ talk) 22:30, 9 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Sock: It's fine but you don't need to add those extra sources, so I cut it down a bit. TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 03:54, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@2001:8003:339D:F400:259A:5305:8A54:A3D5: Even the spine does say Run the Jewels 4, it does not change my vote. Considering there are multiple sources still not prefer the title RTJ4. TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 04:30, 9 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I missed this earlier, but for the recorded I downloaded the album from the group's website. It's title then was RTJ4. -- Calidum 15:17, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. The album spine and all the sources cited in the nomination are primary sources and don't count for much. The common name seems to be in no question. Andrewa (talk) 11:27, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.