Talk:Queen of the Lakes

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untitled

As separate pages are created for the various applications of the title, a disambiguation page can (should) be made.RDavS (talk) 20:08, 2 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The first Frontenac

I am having difficulty nailing down information about the Frontenac, reported by most sources to be the first sailing vessel on the lakes in 1678. Other sources say Le Griffon was the first named ship and suggest that the Frontenac was nothing more than a crude and unnamed barge with improvised rigging and sails. For now I'm leaving things as is, since it seems to follow what most secondary source documents say; but will need to do further research and invite others to see if they can find better information in quotable sources, perhaps in primary source documents.RDavS (talk) 20:08, 2 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am increasingly suspicious of the Frontenac. To date, examination of translations of journals by LaSalle and his associates find only Le Griffon as a named vessel. The same is true of secondary source documents that chronicle his explorations examined to date. There is reference to a "great bark" that was lost near the mouth of the Niagara while bringing supplies to build the Griffon, but other comments indicate that the lost vessel was but one of a number of smaller unnamed vessels. LaSalle's focus after returning from France in mid-1678 was not to build a fleet for Lake Ontario (called Lac de Frontenac at the time) but to promote his exploration and control over the upper lakes. For this purpose the Griffon was to be a key tool. One of LaSalle's contemporaries referred to a vessel used to supply the Griffon and the fort at Niagara as a "brigantine"; but it is apparent that they did not use this term with the precision and understanding we have today. The Griffon, too, was called by some a bark and by others a brigantine. For the present, again, I will leave things as found in a number of books and articles about Great Lakes ships, but I wonder what their source material was.RDavS (talk) 15:09, 3 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I made a change to reflect conflicting reports. See my talk page for further details on why.RDavS (talk) 18:25, 4 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Steamers Nebraska and New York, differences between OA length and Length between uprights

Nebraska length shown is length between uprights, not overall length, which according to (Namesakes 1900-1909, page 30), is 280' which makes her longer than the David Dows although she was surpassed in 1879 by the New York (Namesakes 1910-1919 page 362), which also preceded the David Dows.

Nebraska, 1867 280' OA 267.33 (Between uprights) https://greatlakes.bgsu.edu/item/438276 New York 1879 281' OA 268.75 (Between Uprights) https://greatlakes.bgsu.edu/item/438327 David Dows 1881 278' OA 265.33 (Between Uprights) https://greatlakes.bgsu.edu/item/434870

Thanks, Jeff Squirrelscontrolmylife (talk) 04:44, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Number List?

Could someone had a column on the far left of the list to number the ships? It would be handy to see how many there have been over time... John R. Beck (talk) 19:51, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]