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Archive 1

Made major changes to article

Hello folks. I made major changes to the article by largely keeping much of the previous information and then expanding it and adding pictures as well. If there are any suggestions and comments I'd be glad to hear them. Thanks. Tombseye 10:24, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Taxila Image in Punjab (Pakistan)

I think that the Taxila image (Taxila Buddha.jpg) would be more appropriate in Punjab region page rather than Punjab (Pakistan) page. I have removed that image from Punjab (Pakistan) page. Siddiqui 22:16, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

You've mentioned what you want to do, but haven't included the rationale for your decision. Why do you think the photo is not relevant to the Pakistan Punjab page?
Just a side note: When you revert changes, please don't revert constructive edits in between. I had resized all the images on the page so they were consistent. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 22:31, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
The Taxila statue is most relevant to Punjab region page as it is relevant to whole of Punjab than just to Western Punjab. The East and West Punjab should emphasize their own history and Punjab region should have their common history.
Siddiqui 15:14, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
By that reckoning, why not delete all history in the West/East Punjab articles that is related to pre-Partition? Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 15:42, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Oh, and of course, we'd have to remove the Badshahi Masjid picture too then in that case as that was part of pre-Partition history. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 15:45, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

I do not know why these hindus and sikhs use this word partition. We people of pakistan do not believe any partition type stuff. For my Forefathers who are from gujranwala distirict never say that there was a partition they say that 1947 when hindus and sikhs left our areas. This helped us to form pakistan the land of pure since the impurity of sikhs and hindus were thrown out of our areas. they say that we never considered hindus or sikhs our brotherhood. We always considered them foreigners in our lands since they have a different culture from us muslims. (Muhammad Usman)

Changed infobox

There's no point having an infobox if only one article uses it - each province plus Islamabad had their own infobox. So I've replaced the obsolete Template:Punjab-infobox with a generic one for all provinces and territories. Green Giant 01:05, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Middle Eastern influence prior to Islam?

I think it is erroneous to say there was middle eastern influence in the Panjab prior to the coming of Islam. Prior to Islam, the culture of the region was almost wholly South Asian in nature. At most there was indeed significant Central Asian influence from the Sakas, Kushans, Huns and Parthians, as well as some Greek influence via the Indo-Greek kingdom but there was no real Middle Eastern influence prior to Islam. The Persians invaded sure but they did not significantly impose Persian culture on the locals. Hindu/Buddhist culture stayed the norm and the Persians pretty much just ruled. Middle Eastern influence did come with the arrival of Islam but even that was second hand influence, coming to them via the Turks/Afghans who got it from the Arabs a few centuries prior. Apart from Islam, Panjab is very much a South Asian region with significant Central Asian influence, due to it's proximity. At least this is the impression I have from it's history and the culture as I saw it. Someone correct me if I'm wrong though? - —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.221.1.97 (talk • contribs)

Forced Migrations

There were millions of Hindus and Sikhs that migrated from West Punjab to East Punjab while millions of Muslims migrated to West Punjab from East Punjab. Just adding info about Hindu and Sikh refugees while ignoring Muslim refugees is unacceptable. There were a million people killed of alll three faiths in brutal manner. Just naming victims of one relgion while ignoring others is not neutral point of view. There are millions of Pakistani Punjabis that were forced leave East Punjab in 1947. Indian contributors completely ignore thier miseries. All those suffered were victims regardless of thier faith. Siddiqui 03:14, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Forced Migrations

Yes Siddiqui I agree with you that "There were a million people killed of alll three faiths in brutal manner. Just naming victims of one relgion while ignoring others is not neutral point of view. There are millions of Pakistani Punjabis that were forced leave East Punjab in 1947." The selective amnesia on either side does not contribute to a neutral point of view .If you had read my post you would have noted that it was carefully worded to avoid this . In any case I have now further highlighted this in my latest post .

While on the subject since you are diligently deleting my posts ...I found your non response to my post on the discussion page of Gakhar Hindus intriguing ...still awaiting to see your response.Intothefire 07:02, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Indian contributors ignore their miseries? How do you come to that conclusion, I admit the Hindus and Sikhs were out of order in fighting back. It was good Gandhi stopped the riots (at least in India). But they weren't forced to leave by the government, unlike in Pakistan (99% Muslim majority) where numerous Hindus were forced to leave their homeland because the government wouldn't allow them to stay. India became a secular democracy, while Pakistan became an Islamic Republic. That's the difference, India had Gandhi to ensure that the nation would remain secular, and because of that Zaheer Khan, Wasim Jaffer, Mohammed Kaif and Irfan Pathan are contracted by the Indian cricket team. Nobleeagle [TALK] [C] 04:59, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciation file

It would be best it were replaced by a file of an actual Punjabi person saying "Punjab" in a Punjabi sort of way. Tuncrypt 12:31, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

jinny lahor nai waikhea o jammya hi nai mean the person who did not visit lahore did not born yet —Preceding unsigned comment added by Razimian (talk • contribs) 13:30, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

"An actual Punjabi person saying "Punjab" in a Punjabi sort of way"? What exactly do you mean by that? Statements like that are highly POV/biased. I suppose you would want the article edited by "actual" Punjabi people in a "Punjabi" sort of way? That is not the way Wikipedia works. I suggest you read the guidelines at "Wikipedia is not a dictionary", particularly "We aren't teaching people how to talk like a hacker or a Cockney chimney-sweep". That means it is beside the point whether this pronunciation isn't exactly to everyone's standards as long as it gives a basic idea of the pronunciation. Remember that not everyone reading the article will be Punjabi, so for example a Cockney might pronounce the word somewhat differently from how a Punjabi person might. So, don't keep deleting the pronunciation file from the article unless you can conclusively prove that it is an incorrect pronunciation. In fact if you are such an expert on Punjabi pronunciation, why don't you record an ogg file and upload it so we can hear the difference? Green Giant 18:53, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Demographics

Stop inserting the percentage of Hindus and Sikhs per district. Their is no such list in the Indian Punjab article. The article alrady mentions that their was a population exchange of Hindus/Sikhs, and Muslims. It also mentions that the region "was home to a large indigenous population of Punjabi Hindus and Sikhs unto 1947". IP198 18:45, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

I am not disputing the info that you are tyring to insert, but it doesnt make sense to include these numbers in this article. A better idea would be to mention in each of these districts, the Hindu/Sikh percentage in 1941. For example in Attock district you can state that in 1941 Hindus were six percent of the polulation and Sikhs were 3 percent. This info is already mentioned in the article in a summarized form, and the list already exsists in Hinduism in Pakistan. Try reading the Indian Punjab article. It does not give a list of population prior to partition yet mentions that demographics changed during that period. Also do remember that even if something is sourced that does not mean it is automatically going to be inserted into the article. Try being reasonable and going into the individual districts pages, and mention briefly the population in 1941.IP198 19:41, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Intothefire if your family came from West Punjab, you might feel strongly about including this chart, but you should remember Wikipedia is not a soapbox. IP198 15:13, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

IP198 please be civil and specific .The final aritrator for what should or shouldent be on a page is governed by wikipedia rules . Your deletions are based on your opinion and while the content you are deleting is sourced content .

Cheers
Intothefire 08:08, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Thats not really a reply, as you said the same thing in your edit summary. Please this Npov#Neutrality_and_verifiability, and Npov#Undue_weight. —Preceding unsigned comment added by IP198 (talk • contribs) 12:20, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Sikh History section

Someone has inflated this section considerably. I don't have time to fix it now, but hopefully will do so soon. If not, I'm posting this here to see if anyone else wants to do it :) Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 13:20, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi Sukh I've compacted the section to a appropriate size.--Sikh scholar 06:50, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
Hey! That's much better, although I still feel it is too long. It has too much weight compared to say the section on the Mughals. It should probably be about a paragraph if possible. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 22:26, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


I disalusioned at the fact that it is destroyed and i intend to fix it —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mandeep 619 (talk • contribs) 03:19, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
ANd make the devangari is there!--D-Boy 04:26, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

'

LITERACY RATES

"The literacy rate has increased greatly since independence. In 2003, over 53% of the population of the province was estimated to be literate by the Labour Force Survey. [1] What is meant by 'literacy' in this context? For example, is the ability to read Punjabi measured or just in Urdu or English? How is the ability measured? Eog1916 (talk) 11:41, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Semi-Protection

Should this article be semi-protected since theres lots of edits by IPs and not all of them are contributing to the development of this article?--Ãlways Ãhëad 23:46, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

All Khatri, Jatt and Tarkhan surnames are found in Pakistan

All Jatt, Khatri and Tarkhan Surnames are found in all parts of Pakistan.Mostly they are found among Muslims and some are found among Hindus and Sikhs.So i request you not to remove this topic. 122.163.206.38 (talk) 14:37, 16 March 2009 (UTC)


The P in Pakistan is for Punjab?

In the first paragraph it says the P in P-akistan stands for Punjab, this is not sourced and to the best of my knowledge (having lived in pakistan) this is untrue. The Pak in Pak-istan stands for pure and the 'istan' is derrived from other central asian states. I think the above should either be properly sourced or removed from the article. Khokhar (talk) 22:50, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

I was refering to the 'geography' section. Khokhar (talk) 22:54, 10 April 2009 (UTC)


I came across this, seems the 'acronym' has been lost over time though both meanings are supported.

"'Pakistan' is both a Persian and an Urdu word. It is composed of letters taken from the names of all our Indian Sub-continent homelands; that is, Panjab, Afghanistan (Pashtunistan), Kashmir, Sindh (including Kach and Kathiawar), Tukharistan, Afghanistan, and Balochistan. It means the land of the Paks- the spiritually pure and clean. It symbolizes the religious beliefs and ethnical stocks of our people; and it stands for all the territorial constituents of our original Fatherland. It has no other origin and no other meaning; and it does not admit of any other interpretation. Those writers who have tried to interpret it in more than way have done so either through the love of casuistry, or through ignorance of its inspiration, origin and composition." Now or Never; Are We to Live or Perish Forever? - 1933 Khokhar (talk) 11:53, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Revision By Siddiqui as of 22:18, 1 January 2007

(edit) (undo) Removing unnecessary categories added by Intothefire

Siddiqui the categories are not unnecessary .The history of the peoples of subcontinent are a rich tapestry of a million strands . The history of people of Arabic extraction from the state of UP in India and Bareily is as factual as the history of Punjabi Hindus and Sikhs from the undivided Punjab before 1947 . The history of the Punjab is a shared legacy of various religious ,social , ethnic and even linguistic groups .This includes Hindus , Sikhs , Buddhist , Jains , Christians , as well as ethnically diverse people . This also includes the ethnically diverse people of the Punjab now settled in two different countries .The history of the India Punjab is similarly the combined legacy of people from different faiths.

Therefore please do not remove categories added .Intothefire 07:08, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

The categories that you added were not appropriate to the subject of the article. "Punjab" is not a surname, and neither is it the name of a caste. References to those things should occur in the article itself, in their proper contexts. Then the articles they link to will have the appropriate categories. Otherwise the article will end up with dozens of categories for anything remotely connected to Punjab. ... discospinster talk 13:41, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Hallo. Why is Punjab importent to Sikhs? I need to know! ::) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.159.26.50 (talk) 08:18, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

The Punjab is important to Sikhs because prior to partition the Sikhs were scattered throughout the entire Punjab. Not to mention that Sikhs are ethnically Punjabis, this is why it is important to Sikhs and to Punjabi Hindus as well.Sunnysgrewal (talk) 06:52, 7 February 2009 (UTC))Sunnysgrewal

Well, Punjab is actually also important to Muslims because most Muslims living there right now were also once Sikh/Hindu. Pakistani Punjabi culture is like Indian Punjabi culture just the Pakistani side has more Muslim and Middle Eastern influences while Indian Punjabi has native influences. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.83.217.107 (talk) 23:43, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

etymology

Pan in Sanskrit means five and Aap is water. So from Sanskrit Panjab would be the five waters or five rivers. Old Persian and Sanskrit are similar languages of Indo European origin —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.183.43.195 (talk) 13:16, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Actually I think it comes from Punjabi "Panj" means five while "ab" which may come from Farsi means river. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.83.217.107 (talk) 23:31, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Punjab is derived from Sanskrit. "Panch" or variants mean "Five". "Ab" (also related to Appu for water) means "water". "Ab" is Sanskrit is often used in classical texts to denote a "swell" of water, as in a swiftly flowing river. Deriving this from Persian is wierd. Punjab was the "Land of Five Rivers" since Vedic times, long before any persian influence in the region due to the advent of islam (last 1000 years or so). Of course, Persian has cognates that sound similar to Sanskrit. That is to be expected really, since both are Indo-Aryan sister languages.

No that's inaccurate, the Persian word Panj Aab was the name used by the Persian speaking people who invaded this land. This name (Panjab) dates from the Muslim medieval period not the Vedic period. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.252.183.248 (talk) 06:47, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Punjab (Pakistan)

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Punjab (Pakistan)'s orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "ReferenceB":

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 12:58, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

This has been repaired. Salamurai (talk) 16:12, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Rodhullandemu 21:36, 11 June 2010 (UTC) ~~~~

In order to be uniform with Punjab (Indian state), it would be best to rename Punjab (Pakistan) to Punjab (Pakistani province). 16:39, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move. Jafeluv (talk) 08:48, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Punjab (Pakistani province) → Punjab, Pakistan — - this article was only moved because someone was concerned that Western readers might confuse Indian Punjab and the historical Punjab articles. To my mind this wasn't good reasoning, and I believe that this article is best located at the simplest possible name, allowing for necessary disambiguation (i.e. which country it is in). Green Giant (talk) 04:15, 26 July 2010 (UTC) Support This article talks about the current Punjab state that is located in Pakistan, not the historic one. warrior4321 21:31, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Noor palace bwp.jpg Nominated for Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Noor palace bwp.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Deletion requests May 2011
What should I do?
A discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (commons:COM:SPEEDY has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs.

This notification is provided by a Bot, currently under trial --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 18:13, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Rubbish article, especially history section

This article is full of unsourced and unverified text. There is absolutely no evidence for the existence of Zoroastrianism anywhere in the subcontinent prior to the Parsi migration to the western Indian region called Gujarat. Not a single Zoroastrian archaeological site exists in punjab, neither are there any traces of Persian (Achaemenid or Sasanian) presence in India. No settelments, no structures, nothing. Only vague references to Persian attacks on India exist on Darius' rock-carvings in Iran. Moreover, absolutely no mention at all is made of the fact that the name "punjab" istself was introduced to the region by the Mughals, and was popularized during or after the regin of Akbar. Prior to that there was no "punjab". The name does not even appear once in the Baburnama, where the territory is known only as "Hindustan".

What a serious mess of misinformation this article is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.4.197.25 (talk) 18:59, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

File:Pugc.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Pugc.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations
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Don't panic; deletions can take a little longer at Commons than they do on Wikipedia. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion (although please review Commons guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.

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This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 19:44, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Introduction section

In the second para, in the last lines, some users are deleting some historical empires and are using ambiguous, non encylopedic terms to mention other phases of history. "Aryan" is an ambiguous term, please go through the page Aryan for what the term Aryan means. That phase is generally mentioned as Vedic Civilization. Also Ghaznavid, Mauryans, Mughals etc. can either be empires or dynasties, The word "dynasty" means a ruling family, not a political or cultural organization. ThanMore (talk) 09:10, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Contested deletion

This page should not be speedily deleted because the districts of Pakistan Punjab are listed according to their current location and not their historical location, as the message claims. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.237.77.45 (talk) 17:36, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

I don't see a speedy tag on this page, you are mistaken. This page is not up for speedy deletion. --SMS Talk 17:40, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Punjab population

by calculating the given pakistani population in Pakistan, punjab forms 51.59% of pakistan in terms of population and not 62% i dont know who has established these figures, also the population of pakistan mentioned in the said article is estimated in 2011 while punjab population is estimated in 2012, so im sure it must be even less than 51%, can some one put the correct estimates and percentages

thanks Rameezraja001 (talk) 23:27, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Map image breaches policy & has been removed

There is currently a deletion discussion taking place at Commons regarding File:Map on Dialects Of Punjabi Language.jpg, which can be viewed here. Regardless of whether the map image is deleted at Commons, I think that it needs to be removed from all English Wikipedia articles because it breaches our synthesis policy. The image creator has provided a long list of sources in the deletion discussion and it is evident from those that none contain all of the information shown in the image, nor is it a simple task to work out which bits of information were gleaned from which source(s). We simply do not permit people to aggregate information in this way. It should also be noted that the chances are very high that the various sources did not even adopt the same methodology in compiling their data, which makes the analysis of the creator even more suspect.

I have removed the image because the Commons discussion may end up as something other than "delete" and yet the thing is still invalid on English Wikipedia. - Sitush (talk) 18:41, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Map was deleted on two reasons. 1... Commons deletion discussion but now Deletion request by Sitush has been rejected on Wikimedia Commons. 2... Sitush has a self perception that map is synthesis, which is actually not because it is based on latest research of 2007 in the Publication named 'The Indo-Aryan Languages' by George Cardona and Dhanesh Jain. So I am re inserting it. Unless Sitush prove it again as a synthesis and refer me the areas of map being synthesized also mentioning the different publications along with page numbers where from in his kind opinion I have synthesized the map.Maria0333 (talk) 08:25, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Mistake in the divisional map of punjab

The divisional map of punjab has a big mistake , it is showing gujrat district as part of rawalpindi district which is utterly wrong. The Gujrat district is part of Gujranwala division. Someone should correct this blatant error in the division map and show gujrat district in the gujranwala division. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.176.192.0 (talk) 22:07, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Melu Sharqi

Non-notable remote village. Too early for an independent article. Bisswajit 15:22, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

I have redirected the page to its parent subdivision Phalia Tehsil per WP:BOLD. There was nothing useful and sourced that could be merged. -- SMS Talk 15:56, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Boundary change?

I have reverted edits by Kash201313(talk), which, without explanation or citing a source, replaced the images showing the location and extent of Punjab Province by ones showing only half the province. If Kash201313 has evidence that the Pakistan government has changed the boundaries of Punjab, please cite that evidence here. Apuldram (talk) 15:28, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

Kash201313 has repeated the controversial edits without citing a verifiable source in support and without explaining the edits in the edit summary or on this page. I have restored the article's status quo ante and issued a warning to Kash201313. Apuldram (talk) 16:31, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

Weasel words

Another editor recently removed the Weasel words tag, giving its age as a reason: it was added about 1 year 9 months ago. I reverted this edit, because age is not an appropriate reason to remove a tag; if the weasel words remain, the tag must remain. I also reverted because I noted several examples of "some", "many", and "most" that are ill-defined, and thus weaselly. (See MOS:WEASEL for more explanation, and see below for my comments.) An editor requested that I list these on the talk page, so here is a series of quotes with the offending phrases emboldened:

  • Sometimes, in English, there can be a definite article before the name i.e. the Punjab.[source: a page relating to immigration from Pakistan into Canada] The name is also sometimes spelt as Panjab or Panjaab or Punjaab.)

     Done: words sometimes, Panjaab, Punjaab not found in article; Panjab removed. Apuldram (talk)

  • The Mughals controlled the region from 1524 until around 1739 and would also lavish the province with building projects such as the Shalimar Gardens and the Badshahi Mosque, both situated in Lahore. Muslim soldiers, traders, architects, theologians and Sufis flocked from the rest of the Muslim world to the Islamic Sultanate in South Asia and some may have settled in the Punjab.

     Done: paragraph rephrased. Apuldram

  • The capital of Ranjit Singh's empire was Lahore, and extended Afghanistan, Pakistan, Afghanistan, some of India, and some of China.

     Done ? extract not found. Apuldram

  • Some parts of Pakistani Punjab also served as the centre of resistance in the Indian Rebellion of 1857.

     Done: centre of resistance specified. Apuldram

  • There is also the largest salt mine in Asia situated the Khewra Salt Mines. Khewra salt mines is an attraction for visitors accompanied by guides due to the fact that the mines itself is very large and complex interconnected pass ways are like a maze. There is a small but beautiful Mosque inside the mines made from salt stone. The mines have a good reputation with the patients of Asthma as breathing inside the mines help to permanently cure the Asthma and some other diseases related to respiratory system.

     Done Apuldram

  • Many ethnic Afghan or Pashtun tribes have made Pakistan's Punjab their home over the centuries. These tribes include the Khugyanis known as Khakwanis, Alizais, Tareens, Durranis, Mullazais, Niazis, Khattaks, yousafzais, Sadozais, tahirkheli, Utmanzais, bangash, mashwani, Lodhis, Kakars, Kakazais, and Barakzais, to name a few.[not a very bad example; just needs to be slightly rephrased]

    Not a weasel. The tribes are specified. Apuldram

  • In mid fifteenth century, the religion of Sikhism was born. During the Mughal empire, due to the strong and righteous approach many Hindus increasingly adopted Sikhism.

    Not a weasel. It isn't necessary to specify how many. Apuldram

  • The province is home to many well known historical sites including the Shalimar Gardens, Lahore Fort, the Badshahi Mosque, Rohtas Fort and the ruins of the ancient city of Harrapa. The Anarkali Market and Jahangir's Tomb are prominent in the city of Lahore as is the Lahore Museum, while the ancient city of Taxila in the northwest was once a major centre of Buddhist and Hindu influence. Many important Sikh shrines are in the Pakistani portion of Punjab, including the birthplace of the first Guru: Guru Nanak (born at Nankana Sahib).

     Done Apuldram

  • Many have called for the Punjabi language to be given recognition as it has in India.[source: a blog post of a private individual]

     Done Sentece removed. Language is covered in the infobox and several places elsewhere in the article. Apuldram

  • Punjab ... is the most developed, populous, and prosperous province of Pakistan with approximately 55% of the country's total population.

    The word "most" does not necessarily indicate a weasel - it is often a superlative, as it is here. Apuldram

  • The landscape is amongst the most heavily irrigated on earth and canals can be found throughout the province.

    Not a weasel. [User:Apuldram|Apuldram]]

  • In 1758, the general of the Hindu Maratha Empire, Raghunath Rao invaded Lahore and Attock.Timur Shah Durraniwho was the son and viceroy of Ahmad Shah Abdali and was already weakened by Sikh army, and was drove out of Punjab with the important and necessary help of Sikhs. Lahore, Multan, Dera Ghazi Khan, Kashmir and other subahs on the south and eastern side of Peshawar, were under the Maratha rule for the most part.

    Not a weasel, nor are 'most' of the following examples. Apuldram

  • The province is the breadbasket of the country as well as home to the largest ethnic group in Pakistan, the Punjabis. Unlike neighbouring India, there was no large-scale redistribution of agricultural land. As a result most rural areas are dominated by a small set of feudalistic land-owning families.

  • Most areas in Punjab experience warm winters, often accompanied by rain.

  • Despite lack of a coastline, Punjab is the most industrialized province of Pakistan; its manufacturing industries produce textiles, sports goods, .... In 2003, the province manufactured 90% of the paper and paper boards, 71% of the fertilizers, 69% of the sugar and 40% of the cement of Pakistan.

  • Punjab has the largest economy in Pakistan, contributing most to the national GDP.

  • A big fair/mela is organized at Jandiala Sher Khan in district Sheikhupura on the Mausoleum of Syed Waris Shah who is the most loved Sufi poet of Punjab due to his claasic work known as Heer Ranjha. The shrine of Heer Ranjha in Jhang has been one of the most visited shrines in Punjab.

  • Classical music forms, such as Hindustani classical music, are an important part of the cultural wealth of the Punjab. The Muslim musicians have contributed a large number of ragas to the repository of classical music. The most common instruments used are the Tabla and Harmonium.

  • For the most popular music from the region, bhangra, the names of Abrar-Ul-Haq, Arif Lohar, Attaullah Khan Essa Khailwi, Jawad Ahmed, Legacy, and Malkoo are renowned.

  • The most famous of the romantic love songs are Mayhiah, Dhola and Boliyan. Punjabi romantic dances include Dharees, Dhamaal, Bhangra, Giddha, Dhola, and Sammi.

  • Recently the province experienced one of the coldest winters in the last 70 years. Experts are suggesting that this is because of global warming.[source: article in Dawn Pakistan with mention of cold temperatures, but no mention of global warming or climate change

     Done Sentence removed. No memtion in cited source. Apuldram

These are the examples I found by searching "some", "many", and "most". Let me stress, I am not saying these statements are false; I am saying these are weaselly. That means that they are not specific enough. They need to be rephrased and sourced, or else removed. For instance, "most popular music from the region"; how is it most popular? Most downloaded on iTunes, most sales of CDs, most bands having? "Most areas in Punjab", what does this mean? Low-lying areas, mountainous areas, areas with high rainfall, areas with semitropical climate? "Most developed area in Pakistan", what does this mean? Most exports, most manufactoring, most roads, most percentage of GDP, highest concentration of theatres, museums, or other cultural institutions? Same with many other phrases: what do they mean?

Some of these may not be weaselly; if I have included phrases that are defined later in the text, I apologize. However, some of them certainly are weaselly. — Eru·tuon 23:58, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Unsupported addition

I have removed the box showing unofficial provincial symbols of Punjab because no evidence has been produced to support them. They appear to have no official backing and seem to be no more than someone's opinions. The box can be reinserted if an authoritative verifiable source is cited. Apuldram (talk) 13:46, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Seraiki

I have reverted the edit by 39.47.205.234, which deleted text relating to the use of the Seraiki dialect. The subject has been discussed several times in the past and the text represented the consensus. A full description of the use of the language in Punjab, Pakistan can be found in Seraiki dialect and I have added a citation in the article. The repeated deletions by 39.47.205.234 are edit warring. Apuldram (talk) 21:55, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 October 2015

182.186.217.150 (talk) 13:17, 8 October 2015 (UTC)city hujin tao , pakistan

Not done: as you have not requested a change.
If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 13:31, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 3 external links on Punjab, Pakistan. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers. —cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 11:03, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

 DoneArchived sources have been checked

Removed two of these archived links, which were unsuccessfull (one unreadable, one dead). Confirmed the third good. Apuldram (talk) 18:44, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

POV-pushing

Some users have taken to systematically change the article to enforce a POV where Muslim history is always great and Sikhs and Hindus always evil. On top of that, they copy and paste a section of the article so that the exact same text appears twice. This looks very close to vandalism, and much of it is entirely unsourced. Even if sourced, it's not automatically ok as it's obvious cherry picking to select incidents to make one group look bad and one group evil (it even borders on racism). The use of words os also revealing, as in changing 'conquered' to 'invaded' or using 'victorious' when talking about Muslim victories but 'looting' for Sikh victories. Wikipedia follows WP:NPOV and this of POV-pushing is not acceptable even if it were all sourced, though in thid case it's not. Jeppiz (talk) 09:16, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

To add to the above: I'm not sure the main source of the POV, the Sikh Encyclopaedia, satisfies WP:RS but even if it did, it's relevant to note that it offers no support for the claims made in the recent additions. The source is merely there to provide the user's POV with an alibi, but it does not hold up to inspection if one actually reads the source. Jeppiz (talk) 16:41, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Which five rivers?

The introductory paragraph says that the Indus is one of the five rivers. The etymology paragraphs says that the Beas is one of the fiver rivers. Which one is it? Caeruleancentaur (talk) 23:31, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Punjab during Mahabharata times was known as Panchanada. http://books.google.co.in/books?ei=uG2RTb3xCYXQcZeeuUA&ct=result&id=0bkMAAAAIAAJ&dq=abhira+yadav&q=abhiras Gazetteer of the Bombay Presidency ..., Volume 1, Part 1-page-11 Awesome Pattern of telling :) Laraib Arshad (Lara) (talk) 18:04, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Indus is not one of the 5 rivers - Beas is though. The five rivers are in reference to the TRIBUTARIES of the Indus, which by definition excludes the Indus itself.Willard84 (talk) 03:33, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

The five rivers in Punjab Pakistan are Indus, Jhelum, Sutlej, Chenab and Ravi The five rivers in Punjab India are Beas, Jhelum, Sutlej, Chenab and Ravi Different than you (talk) 14:46, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

The five rivers of the name Punjab (pənj-āb) are, as Willard84 pointed out, the tributaries of the Indus. They are the Jhelum, Chenab, Ravi, Sutlej, and Beas, see etymology. Apuldram (talk) 18:09, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

Unofficial symbols

I have removed the list of unofficial symbols from the article. Where do they come from? Without a verifiable reliable source they appear to be original research. Please do not replace them without giving an explanation here and obtaining consensus. Apuldram (talk) 23:18, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

And here is a link for those wishing to review what was added/removed. Samsara 23:22, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

Location

I have restored the location information removed by TrumpSr (talk). To include the bordering Pakistan provinces but remove the bordering Indian states is far from a neutral point of view.
I have also removed the statement "and preceding Sindh". Punjab province is larger than several provinces. There is no value in mentioning Sindh specially. It's also not essential to mention Balochistan, but having stated that Punjab is the second largest, it makes sense to indicate which is the largest. Apuldram (talk) 20:49, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

How is it neutral to include several indian states? It just makes the lead paragraph longer by adding irrelevant useless information about a different country. I am focusing on Punjab, Pakistan. Not on neighboring countries. Ok? TrumpSr (talk) 22:55, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
It's fine to mention all the bordering states you want in the GEOGRAPHY of Punjab. But it just is very irrelevant and not needed to do so in the FIRST Paragraph. It is fine to say "bordering Northwestern India" in the FIRST paragraph. For GEOGRAPHY section of Punjab, you can be as detailed as possible. Hope you understand. TrumpSr (talk) 23:01, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
Similar articles specify the bordering provinces and states by name, see Sindh, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Azad Kashmir, Punjab, India, Rajasthan and Jammu and Kashmir. That is logical, informative and maintains a neutral point of view. To list the Pakistan provinces but not the Indian states does not present a neutral pov. Neutral point of view is one of Wikipedia's core content policies
@TrumpSr. Your edits and comments indicate that you are reluctant to accept that Punjab, Pakistan, has borders with Punjab, India, Rajasthan and Jammu and Kashmir and that you do not have a npov. You appear to be a new contributor and I welcome you on that basis. Please take time to read the advice given you in the welcome on your talk page, in particular the Five pillars of Wikipedia, which explains the reasons for a npov. Apuldram (talk) 10:20, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
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