Talk:Placebo button

This article was nominated for deletion on 6 September 2009 (UTC). The result of the discussion was speedy keep.

On 3 September 2009, Placebo button was linked from Digg, a high-traffic website. (Traffic)

All prior and subsequent edits to the article are noted in its revision history.

On 3 September 2009, Placebo button was linked from Reddit, a high-traffic website. (Traffic)

All prior and subsequent edits to the article are noted in its revision history.

Elevators

I do not feel qualified to edit or delete an entry on a psychology topic, and hope that someone else will do so. The Elevator button section merely replaces one urban myth (that the Door Close button is not wired) by another (that it functions only in emergency situations), and this falls below a reasonable standard for an encyclopaedia entry. No citations are provided to support the myth as published, we see below in Talk a refutation by a licensed (American) elevator mechanic, and the web contains examples of the myth being exposed experimentally, such as http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-Wgdp2O4aA (in England). This section should be deleted or – better – replaced with a refutation of the commonly held false belief that the Door Open button is disconnected, perhaps citing that youtube video as a source. Not Proven (talk) 11:53, 15 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have revised the section on Elevator "door close" buttons to provide a common English explanation of the "door close" button. ASME A17.1 standards are unequivocally clear: requirements 2.27.3.3, "Phase II Emergency In-Car Operation", call for continuous pressure operation of both the "door open" and "door close" buttons in Phase II fire service. Hence, the "door close" button must both be wired and functional in order for the elevator to meet contemporary elevator code. The "call cancel" button also has no effect in automatic operation, but that also is not merely a "placebo button", it is also a critical part of emergency operations. --MMX (talk) 21:44, 26 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

For the claim that most elevator door close buttons are placebo buttons, the cited article mentions only a Straight Dope piece claiming that "One repair type alleges that this accounts for the majority of cases" and a similarly unsourced piece from Gizmodo. Citing "sources" that themselves provide only anecdotal claims isn't any different from not citing sources at all. --Cholling (talk) 12:40, 2 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

My understanding is that door close buttons are mainly for fire fighters; the instructions for fire operation usually mention the door close button. Benandorsqueaks (talk) 17:59, 2 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe. But when an elevator is in independent service mode, you close the doors by holding down the floor button -- not the door-close button. --Mdwyer (talk) 22:31, 2 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I formerly worked at an elevator company. At least in the US, ADA (American Disabilities Act) sets minimum door open times, so pushing the Close Door button in Normal operation does nothing. The Close Door button is used mostly for Inspection Operation by an elevator mechanic and for Fire Service. In older installations pre-ADA the Close Door button may do something.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.253.247.114 (talk) 12:26, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I actually work on elevators, I am a licensed elevator mechanic in California. The door close button DOES WORK, despite this person's claims. Even on new elevators, there is a timer on the door open cycle, it starts the timer once the door open limit has been reached. The door open timer will remain active for a time specified by the relay or computer control. The door open timer can be shut off or shortened by the activation of the door close button. Again, this article is WRONG pertaining to elevators because they clearly have no experience working with elevators, as while as the previous comment. By the way sir, inspection operation disables the doors altogether, so the door buttons have no use in inspection operation. For more information on how elevators work, see the elevator article 98.176.59.139 (talk) 04:13, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

“Citing "sources" that themselves provide only anecdotal claims isn't any different from not citing sources at all.”

That's not true.

--Nnemo (talk) 16:24, 17 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Door close button in the lift at my work closes the door. Otherwise you have to wait for approx 4 seconds before it closes manually. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.193.214.143 (talk) 23:52, 2 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This entire entry should be deleted. Reference #1 of 2 does indeed mention the idea of placebo buttons, but it ends with the caveat: "There’s no real conclusion to this post, other than that it’s worth investigating this subject further"; and because Reference #2 of 2 describes push buttons that used to work but have become obsolete with computer control; it does not even address the idea of a so-called "placebo button". I also agree, strongly, with user Cholling that the posts this entry lists as References do not site their sources - but I would go further to say that newspaper articles and blogs that are not peer reviewed as per usual have no place in the Psychology stub. --Dneyder (talk) 14:44, 2 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I have spread these "facts" for over 15 years, only citing the fact that these particular buttons have little to no feedback mechanism with no other basis. Delete away... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.117.78.2 (talk) 21:04, 2 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oughtn't "placebo" to include some sense of "intent"? Wiktionary doesn't claim that, but New Oxford American does. If the buttons are inutile because they're broken, because they've been superseded, or because they operate only in some modes, then there's no intent to placate. Seems delete-worthy. --Jackrepenning (talk) 00:48, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have heard of another case of these, a placebo volume control for DJs in a club (who sometimes don't understand the sound engineering required to make something really loud) ... ask about this on ableton.com forums, you might track down a citation.

DELETE. There is no good sourced material and this is a nothing stub. The concept of a placebo button is indeed interesting but unless someone can come up with some research on the topic and some sources the page should probably be deleted. Kirkmona (talk) 03:51, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Can we DELETE the elevator button off this article? The DOOR close button does work, even when its in normal operation. Who writes this BS? I've been an elevator mechanic for over ten years and I can guarantee you that the door close button DOES work in normal operation. It shortens door dwell time making the doors close sooner. Remove this BS already, the reason there is no citation is because its bullcrap. Please feel free to ask any elevator manufacturer if their door close button works or not, they will all tell you the same thing I just stated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.176.35.41 (talk) 00:23, 23 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

- - and then there's that alleged "clitoris".. I mean c'mon! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.183.255.35 (talk) 12:40, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.radiolab.org/story/buttons-not-buttons/ addresses the 'door close' button question in an interview with the owner of a multi-generational family elevator business and curator of an elevator museum.

--Kevjonesin (talk) 04:34, 2 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

See this blog post for an excellent discussion of the door close button issue. The author concludes the door close buttons are not placebos, and are required for fire service mode, but in some situations can appear so because of ADA rule requirements. 2A00:23C4:AF01:DA01:A0AF:168:2C58:345B (talk) 08:58, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Placebo Buttons in Marketing

EASY. (Someone had to say it.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.156.34.166 (talk) 17:38, 4 September 2009 (UTC) I added a paragraph onto the office thermostat subheading about 2 possible psychological principles that allow the "placebo" effect to work. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bsum12 (talk • contribs) 13:30, 28 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Worldwide view

I have added the fact that this article may not provide a worldwide view of the subject to the multiple issues template because it had been place in the middle of the article before, by an IP editor.

This appears to the part that needs to be globalized: "A functional "door close" button is required by elevator code (ASME A17.1, Requirements 2.27.3.3, "Phase II Emergency In-Car Operation")."

The Million Rabbit 01:23, 10 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Not an RS, but...

I just thought I'd mention here this comment from an online forum where it is mentioned that S stock buttons do work, but only after 45 seconds. (see comment by "Transport fan" at 18-09-2013 05:26 PM on that page.) I can't, however, find a WP:RS for this. -- The Anome (talk) 16:16, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]