Talk:Phoenician Ship Expedition

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Wiki Education assignment: The Phoenicians - Cunning Seafarers

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 January 2024 and 15 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Phoenicians2024!, Cabbagepatch12345, Phoenician24 (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Ilovebaklava428, SonnyLovesSeafaring12.

— Assignment last updated by MannyRamirez12345 (talk) 01:49, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ancient seafaring navbox

Moved from User talk:Mathglot § Adding categories that should only refer to known events, not mythical or speculative

Doug Weller, regarding the removal of Nav box {{Ancient seafaring}} and whether it is appropriate for this article, I believe it is. This modern replica of a Phoenician ship tested theories about the possibility of an ancient sea voyage by Phoenicians around Africa as reported by Herodotus. The Phoenician Ship Expedition of 2008 is an example of experimental archaeology, which is a legitimate field of study, one branch of which is devoted to ancient seafaring.

The reason I added {{Ancient seafaring}} to the article is because of subgroup 5, Experimental Archaeology, under the "Research and education" group of the template. It includes other examples of experimental marine archaeology, such as the 1985 Olympias, a reconstructed trireme. Trial runs of the Olympias were able to confirm historical claims by Thucydides about the speed and turning radius of ancient Greek triremes which formerly were considered by modern historians as unattainable exaggerations in ancient accounts. The Hōkūleʻa is a replica Polynesian double-hulled canoe that voyaged from Hawaii to Tahiti in 1975 "to explore the anthropological theory of the Asiatic origin of native Oceanic people".

There are other numerous other examples of experimental archaeology that have contributed to modern understanding of ancient seafaring, and these seem to me an appropriate subtopic in a Navbox about ancient seafaring. The Phoenician Ship Expedition article is squarely in this tradition, as a modern attempt to test the theory that Herodotus' report that Egyptian King Necho II commissioned Phoenicians to sail around Africa. For this reason, I believe the {{Ancient seafaring}} nav box is appropriate for this article. Mathglot (talk) 19:16, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good points but for other readers I’ve just remembered totally Mathglot it’d at rsn now. Doug Weller talk 19:32, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Doug, Are you talking about the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard ? I just checked, and I don't see anything about it there. Can you provide a link? Mathglot (talk) 19:37, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, I see you created a discussion about categories at Fringe theories. However, this issue is not about a category, but about a Nav box, so it is not relevant to your discussion at FSN. Mathglot (talk) 19:42, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am.exhausted. Sorry I said RSN by mistake.Related issues though I think. If a nav box only mentions historical events then non historical ones shouldn’t be included. Doug Weller talk 21:01, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, no big deal, I found it. The nav box has a subgroup called "Experimental archaeology" which has a couple dozen links about replicas of ancient ships and attempts to duplicate ancient voyages in modern times. Also replied at the FTN about the category issue. Mathglot (talk) 00:06, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This discussion kind of got left hanging. I think there was perhaps confusion between a putative category of "Category:Ancient seafaring" for which I believe we would all agree that this article would not qualify for because it is a modern event on the one hand, and on the other, a Navbox, which groups related articles that meet five conditions, as this one does. I've added {{Ancient seafaring}} back to the article, this time with the Research group expanded, showing the unlinked black typeface which highlights the position of this article in the list. Doug, if you still have an objection to the Nav box on this article, please lmk. Mathglot (talk) 05:43, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Mathglot Thanks for doing this. It's fine. Doug Weller talk 08:50, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]