Talk:Peremech

Russia: Demographics & ethnography Low‑importance

	Russia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Russia, a WikiProject dedicated to coverage of Russia on Wikipedia. To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.RussiaWikipedia:WikiProject RussiaTemplate:WikiProject RussiaRussia articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the demographics and ethnography of Russia task force.

Food and drink

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Food and drink, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of food and drink related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Food and drinkWikipedia:WikiProject Food and drinkTemplate:WikiProject Food and drinkFood and drink articles

???

This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Food and Drink task list:

To edit this page, select here

Here are some tasks you can do for WikiProject Food and drink:

Help bring these Top Importance articles currently B Status or below up to GA status: Agaricus bisporus (i.e. mushroom), Beef, Bread, Curry, Drink, Food, Ham and eggs, Soy sauce, Sushi, Yogurt
Bring these Top Importance articles currently at GA status up to FA status: Beer, French cuisine, Sugar
Bring these High Importance articles currently at GA status up to FA status: Apple, Burger King, Fish
Participate in project-related deletion discussions.
Delete unrelated trivia sections found in articles. Please review WP:Trivia and WP:Handling trivia to learn how to do this.
Add the {{WikiProject Food and drink}} project banner to food and drink related articles and content to help bring them to the attention of members. For a complete list of banners for WikiProject Food and drink and its child projects, select here.
Provide photographs and images for Category:Wikipedia requested images of food
Consider joining this project's Assessment task force. List any project ideas in this section

Note: These lists are transcluded from the project's tasks pages.

Requested move 17 July 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn by initiator. There is existing usage of the current title in English, and there is a lack of clarity in what characters would be used in an alternate title. Alsee (talk) 07:28, 18 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Peremech → Pәrәmәç – This is the correct original spelling of this dish name. There is no common English spelling for that. I created this page but was unable to choose this title, because it appears on the title black list for unknown reason. I suppose this is due to the combination of a Cyrillic character ә and an extended ASCII Latin character ç. Both characters appear in Tatar Latin alphabet. – Off-shell (talk) 13:46, 16 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Off-shell: This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 04:35, 17 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

How much is this dish known of under this name or similar in countries/areas where ә and ç are not in everyday use in spelling? Anthony Appleyard (talk) 04:35, 17 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- The dish is known as беляш (belyash, Russian) in the whole post-Soviet area. In this area Cyrillic alphabets are mostly used. Pərəməç is only used in Tatar language. But since the dish is considered an original Tatar dish, I chose the original Tatar name, as both names are basically unknown in English. The Tatar language has two alternative alphabets, a Cyrillic one and a Latin one. I chose the Latin spelling, similar to Öçpoçmaq.
- I just discovered that letter "ə" is also available in the extended Latin section of Unicode. The word should be written Pərəməç. It looks the same but in fact a different letter code is used. Please use this spelling: Pərəməç, and not the one from my original request. I already corrected the article. The corrected spelling is still blocked by the blacklist. --Off-shell (talk) 06:01, 17 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Does that mean that ә has one Unicode code when used as an International Phonetic Alphabet sign and another when used in Tatar and Azeri etc spelling? Anthony Appleyard (talk) 06:21, 17 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't know which letter should be used in which case. I suppose the one from the Cyrillic part should not be combined with the Latin letters. In general, it is standard, that the same letters appear separately for the Latin and Cyrillic parts, e.g. Cyrillic "Аа" vs Latin "Aa", Cyrillic "Ее" vs. Latin "Ee" etc. At the page Tatar language#Writing system they used one code for the Cyrillic alphabet and the other for the Latin one.
- I also just discovered that the status of the Tatar Latin alphabet is unclear. The Tatar government passed the law to adopt it but this was overturned by the central Russian government. It remains somehow unofficial. Moreover, they seem still to use some different versions of it (there are some chaotic/incomplete explanations in Tatar alphabet#Latin versions). In particular, there is a version where ä is used instead of ə, and ö instead of ɵ. So the current page title Öçpoçmaq is spelled this way instead of Ɵçpoçmaq. Pärämäç would be the alternative spelling for peremech (see Tatar cuisine#Anglicized names of Tatar dishes).
- I also found that anglicized peremech is used in The Oxford Companion to Food. So probably, one can leave the title as it is now to avoid dealing with this mess. --Off-shell (talk) 09:33, 17 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.