Talk:Patty Cannon

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Untitled

In the article, reference is made to "Johnson's Ferry", but the Delaware State Archives has notation of an 1883 bill establishing a ferry at Woodland, formerly known as "Cannon's Ferry". The ferry was founded and operated by the Cannon family (Not known if there is a familial connection to Patty Cannon or not).

Does anyone have a reference pointing to the Johnson's Ferry name, or should it be changed to Cannon's Ferry? Carnifex 01:34, 28 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

an online reference said the ferry was operated by Johnson family and known by that name for a time. [1]. I would not particularly trust this source, as they name Joe Johnson as Cannon's husband rather than her son-in-law. Will try and come up with more info. On another matter, a recent History Detective (PBS) episode [2] cast strong doubt on the Patty Cannon house. It appears the house known by that name, and designated with a state plague, was built on the same lot/location as the house of Cannon's period. I don't know which of the houses is in the new photograph. WBardwin 01:55, 28 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Agree that this is not a reliable source (RS) - too anecdotal. Parkwells (talk) 19:08, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The house that is in the photo I added is the same house that still stands at the intersection and is labeled (probably incorrectly) as the Patty Cannon house. If you check the photos in your first link, the only significant difference that it visible is the removal of at least one of the two small chimneys on the main house. I would say this is not the original Patty Cannon House - considering the townspeople renamed the entire town after the details of her activities became known, I wouldn't be surprised if they also destroyed the original dwelling. I'll update the caption for the photo. I had plans to take a new picture of the house and post it as well, if I do I'll add the caveat that it's a house where her house was.

I also think it's safe to make the change from "Johnson's Ferry" to "Cannon's Ferry". The most difinitive source I've found is the state archives and they make reference to it as "Cannon's Ferry".

This is the first time editing/contributing for me, as well as my first article. Carnifex 04:36, 28 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Carnifex, you're right -- as Bardwin noted, it's been proven by PBS that it wasn't her house. The transcript of the show is online now and I left a link to it in the main article. Also, since you wrote this, The Entailed Hat (1884 story of Cannon's life) has gone online. There is a scene in it in which the Cannon Ferry operator indignantly denies a relation to her, but that anecdote may be entirely fictional; and even reading it as fiction, the author leaves room for you to think the ferry character might be lying out of shame. -- LisaSmall ^T/C 02:53, 30 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with choices to change reference to ferry to that documented in state archives.Parkwells (talk) 19:08, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This is why I love Wikipedia -- I had never heard of this person and stumbled on this article while fixing a link on another page. Now I want to find out more about her. Wiki is great fertilizer for the mind. UncleFester 19:43, 27 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

More rumors about Patty Cannon

Ed Okonowitz, a local Delaware author and storyteller, tells the story of Patty Cannon with much more detail. He described in detail more of the rumors of her cruelty. For example, she once threw a baby into the fireplace because its mother could not calm it down. There are also more rumors about her suicide in Georgetown - Okonowitz says that she may have hidden cyanide in the hem of her dress, in a cake delivered by her children, or she may have bribed a guard to sneak it to her. Mrhodes8 17:47, 4 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for contributing the details, MrRhodes8. I took them out of the article for the moment because they are so sensational, and not sourced to a written account. I'll look around and see if I can find a written ref so that they can go back in. -- LisaSmall ^T/C 23:15, 29 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

anyone know her birthdate

does anyone know patty cannons birthday? my daughter is doing a school project on this and its one of the questions. thank you —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.250.104.139 (talk) 23:40, 10 May 2007 (UTC).[reply]

No, but I'm looking. Unless a rough age can be procured from U.S. Census data, I don't expect to find anything. Her major biographer, Townsend, put a note at the end of his book about the two competing (and totally incompatible) stories of her origins. -- LisaSmall ^T/C 02:53, 30 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Entailed Hat box quote

Three short paragraphs from TEH are now included in the article. Although this is a longer quote that I'd usually include, I put it in for two reasons.

One, it provides a comprehensive context for the origin of Cannon's gang — unemployed transient whites looking for cash after the war; the high price of black slaves in the South; the anger of local whites towards local blacks perceived as having supported the British. Two, the tone of this selection conveys Cannon's times more thoroughly than any modern paraphrase could. Three, I think the material is needed to explain how she got away with it for so long. The only thing missing from the TEH explanation is that the kidnapped free blacks left property behind, providing their neighbors with a hefty financial motive for seeing them gone (in addition to their anger about presumed black loyalty to the British in the war), but I can't put that in the article without a citation without violating WP:OR or WP:VERIFY.

The TEH, sensationalized as it may be, is the major source of info on Cannon and her times. While I hesitate to include any of its specifics about her origins, acts, or final end without alerting the reader in the text, rather than a footnote, that the info is from TEH, the book can be relied on for general facts such as the effect of the 1812 War on the slave-stealing business. Sources on Patty Cannon are going to be rare and hard to find; I think the article has room for this one, so long as the material used carefully, with proper caveats and introductions. -- LisaSmall ^T/C 02:53, 30 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There has been late 20th-21st century academic work on kidnappings of free blacks and especially some of the activities of the Cannon-Johnson gang. One source about the lengthy case of Cornelius Sinclair I've added to this article. It relies on contemporary primary sources, such as African Observer and court cases. It's inappropriate to rely on a novel for the historical context and have shortened the quote from TEH. There are likely sources, such as Carol Wilson's history of kidnappings, or histories of the area in the War of 1812 that can provide more factual accounts. Parkwells (talk) 19:05, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Self-published not RS

I've deleted Shields as a source, as this book appears to be self published. (It is the only one for that presss, which is not established.) Put it in "Further reading".Parkwells (talk) 19:53, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]