Talk:Pantsdrunk

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Finland

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Requested move 4 July 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Mdaniels5757 (talk) 22:19, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Pantsdrunk → Kalsarikännit – I am all familiar with the concept of kalsarikännit although I have never done it myself, I drink with my clothes on. However I have never heard of the term "pantsdrunk", least of all "päntsdrunk". "Kalsarikännit" is one of the rare Finnish words known outside Finland, and many English-language sources use it too. As stated in the article, an Australian brewery even named one of their products "Kalsarikännit", even taking the trouble to spell the letter ä correctly. JIP | Talk 20:37, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:USEENGLISH. I must say I'm not particularly familiar with either word, but after looking over the sources cited in the articles, "pantsdrunk" appears to be the anglicized English word for this. Rreagan007 (talk) 01:19, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. As a non native user of English but a native user of Finnish I take no position to the choice between the English language name and the Finnish language name, but in any case to my opinion the Finnish word should not be "Kalasrikännit" (plural form) but "Kalsarikänni" (singular form) as it is in fi:Kalsarikänni and also in the redirect en:Kalsarikänni here in en-wikipedia. --Urjanhai (talk) 12:38, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

And besides, the plurar form "kalsarikännit" seems to be the form that is used in the name of a newly launched beer brand from Australia only. The original singular form "kalsarikänni" was first used in the the name of the book that introduced the whole term itself. The needless use of the plural form of the original concept would be against the naming principles of wikipedia. Due to this the choice between the two forms: the singular form used in the name of the book in which the term was originally intoduced and the plural form used in the name of the commercial beer brand that was launched only afterwars seems to be unneutral if the the form used in the name of the commercial brand based on the original concept, would be accepted as the name of the article that deals with the phenomenon itself and not the beer brand. So, if the Finnish language form were chosen, then the name of the article should with no doubt be in the original singular form "Kalsarikänni" and not in the plural form "Kalsarikännit" that is used in the name of tne afterwards launched beer brand only. If the plural form that is used in the name of the commercial beer brand only, were chosen, this would be unneutral. Of course if an article would be written about the beer brand, in case it would be concidered notable enough, it would be the name of the beer brand, but only that. --Urjanhai (talk) 05:07, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

And finally, this is not first time when different case forms of Finnish languge words are used to detach different brands from each other due to commercial reasons. The Finnish cell phone company Nokia was originally known in Finland as a manufacturer of rubber boots - and later on as a manufacture of car tyres that also are made of rubber. The cell phones came only afterwards. And so, due to this, the brand that was used when marketing the tyres, was changed from "Nokia" (nominative case) to "Nokian" (genitive case) in the name of the brand Nokian Tyres to avoid the confusion with the cell phone brand. And so, in the same way, in this case to name the article about the phenomenon with the form used in the name of the beer brand would be incorrect and unneutral.--Urjanhai (talk) 05:32, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

And finally also: there is sauna and rapakivi as no translation has been established. It this case there may be a translation that is used. But the discussion about translating or not translating is another discussion and the discussion about which word should be used if not translated, is another discussion. But anyway the plural form "Kalsarikännit" would be incorrect and unneutral to my opinion. --Urjanhai (talk) 05:56, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So a better idea would be to move this to kalsarikänni instead. How can I fix the move request? JIP | Talk 10:51, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose "Pantsdrunk" is a new translation, but it's used because the Guardian et. al. used that translation when they covered that phenomenon. --Pudeo (talk) 15:28, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.