Talk:Pakistani diaspora

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On 18 April 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from Overseas Pakistani to Pakistani diaspora. The result of the discussion was moved.

Articles for the Middle East

Being that 1/3rd of the expatriate population live in the middle east, I think it would be good to start an article about Pakistanis residing the Middle East, specifically the UAE and Saudi Arabia. We can also mention Kuwait, Qatar and Bahrain (mostly the Gulf Nations). Not sure about any Pakistanis living in the other parts of the ME.

User:Bk2006 10:33 October 23 2007 (UTC)

The numbers are incorrect. Latest numbers are from 2005 and can be found at OPF (Overseas Pakistani Foundation) [1] --Slayer00 (talk) 13:27, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

India

There is no data for Pakistanis in India. Sure there are some. I have watched Paradesi. --Error (talk) 00:01, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

An indian movie based on patriotic sentiments is not a source, especially when it's a complete LIE! Hardly no Indians who migrated to Pakistan ever went back to it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.27.146.160 (talk) 23:06, 9 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Religious persecution is very prominent in Pakistan. A lot of members of religious minorities have migrated from Pakistan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Harshit 3110 (talk • contribs) 15:27, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Merge suggestion

The related Category:Pakistan diaspora has been nominated for deletion, merging, or renaming. You are encouraged to join the discussion on the Categories for Discussion page.

I am suggesting it be merged with Category:Pakistani diaspora, as they aren't both needed and the adjectival form of name seems more widely used in similar categories. PamD (talk) 15:14, 2 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Outdated data

The article is using outdated data. More recent estimates for the number of overseas Pakistanis in each country are provided in this detailed article: Where expatriates who reach the top come from, The News (2012). The table may need to be updated accordingly. Mar4d (talk) 13:14, 5 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This link also has some numbers. Mar4d (talk) 11:02, 10 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Another one [2] Mar4d (talk) 07:32, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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issue

Pakistani numbers in different countries is full of made up numbers - typical paki behaviour (boasting)

For example Hong Kong pakistani population is 17k whereas it mentions 2-3 times of that population!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.199.6.79 (talk) 08:23, 8 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Emigration From Pakistan section edit war

Recently I edited the overseas Pakistani article and made some corrections and added new information (population in particular). I also included was "Emigration from Pakistan", which both Overseas Chinese and Non Resident Indians use as well. To my dismay, the entire subsections (prehistory, middle ages and colonial era) were deleted without any reason by Wiki editor User:LouisAragon. No reason was given, it was simply deleted. I don't understand why double standards are being employed here. Pakistani isn't an ethnicity...it's just a nationality. The ethnic groups that make up the country have been around for a long time and have a history of migration. Sindhis are found only in Pakistan, so who else is going to talk about Sindhi merchants trading with the far east? Baloch are mainly in Pakistan, who else is going to talk about Baloch settlers coming in contact with Arab tribes and settling in Bedoon communities? The Canadians? The Russians? I mean I really don't get the point of deleting it. Personally speaking, I think it was just one out of spite. Had this been a universal rule (that no history be added before the country's independence) then why wasn't Non Resident Indian and Overseas Chinese articles edited? I even asked this directly from LouisAragon but he refuses to answer, which pretty much proves my point. Could a rational editor please look into my edits (which I provided full proper sources for) and consider reverting back to mine version of the article. I look forward to your response. Thanks. --PAKHIGHWAY (talk) 15:10, 14 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statistics of population

It simply boggles my mind as to why a particular editor continues to cite population of overseas Pakistanis based on multiple foreign sources. The Ministry of Overseas Pakistanis already has a database with the numbers posted...this article has to do with Overseas Pakistanis, not "Italian Pakistanis". So can someone please intervene here and salvage this ridiculous article? --99.244.148.132 (talk) 20:08, 29 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Some references

Bookku (talk) 11:24, 12 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Following content was censored from the article

Following content was censored from the article by section blanking.

Usually I don't enter into edit wars and just make mentions on talk page.

Excuse in edit summary is unfathomable. About any encyclopedic article about any community; If any award winners, billionaires or artists or authors would have been notable would have or can get mention because they are simply notable even if they do not represent majority but simple being from the community. And so are atheists from the community and encyclopedic notable. But south Asians in General and Pakistanis in particular always prefer to hide unwanted facts. In another article sectarianism among overseas Pakistanis has been censored, and there are many more examples.

South Asians have an anecdote saying 'hiding a hen is of no use, it will make her voice heard any ways.' Or like sun truth can't be kept hidden for ever. Let them give excuse, like water truth will spread in more ways more places not less.

Bookku (talk) 07:05, 17 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Secularism, blasphemy and atheism among Pakistani diaspora

While majority of Pakistani diaspora supports secularism in overseas non Muslim countries same time retaining their support for theocracy, anti blasphemy laws compromising free speech and capital punishment laws against atheists back in Pakistan. Still there are few exceptions who support secularism, free speech and even atheism among Pakistani diaspora.^[1] Ali Amjad Rizvi is a Pakistani-born Canadian^[2] ex-Muslim atheist and secular humanist writer and podcaster^[3] who is author of ' The Atheist Muslim: A Journey from Religion to Reason' .^[3] Sarah Haider is a Pakistani-American writer, speaker, and political activist.^[4] She created the advocacy group Ex-Muslims of North America (EXMNA) which seeks to normalize religious dissent and to help former Muslims leave the religion by linking them to support networks.^[5] She is the co-founder and director of development for EXMNA.^[6] Muhammad Syed is a Pakistani-American writer, speaker, and political activist.^[7] He created the Ex-Muslims of North America (EXMNA) advocacy group in 2013 which seeks to normalize religious dissent and to help former Muslims leave the religion by linking them to support networks. He is the co-founder, executive director^[8], and currently the president of EXMNA.^[7]^[9]

− − Fauzia Ilyas (born 1989^[10]) is a Dutch Pakistani speaker, political activist,and the president and co-founder of Atheist & Agnostic Alliance Pakistan.^[11]^[12]^[13]^[14] Ilyas, an open atheist and apostate of Islam, fled from Pakistan after receiving threats to her life and faced potential legal charges for blasphemy in Pakistan. Ilyas received asylum in the Netherlands, where she is now a critic of Islam and campaigner for feminism, secularism, and atheist rights in Pakistan.^[12]^[10]^[15]^[11]^[12]

All you've done is highlight a few outspoken ex-Muslims who are of Pakistani background. Seems more like an "hey look at me, look how cool I am". That doesn't really prove your claim that a majority of overseas Pakistanis are "secular", even though I probably agree with that sentiment, their really isn't any study or poll conducted to prove that. And, please...keep the silly conspriacy theories to yourself. Wikipedia isn't censoring anything. What a ridiculous and childish accusation to make. --2607:FEA8:A380:3173:B940:BF63:C95C:97A7 (talk) 23:22, 2 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Third opinion is requested from WP:3O Bookku (talk) 10:56, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

a ref https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/mono/10.4324/9781315462776/islam-race-pluralism-pakistani-diaspora-craig-considine
The Diaspora's Duty Waris Husain
SMOKERS’ CORNER: THE DIASPORA DISCONNECT Nadeem F. Paracha
TY - JOUR, AU - Qazi, Habib, AU - Shah, Saeeda, PY - 2018/12/01,SP - , T1 - Discursive construction of Pakistan's national identity through curriculum textbook discourses in a Pakistani school in Dubai, the United Arab Emirates, VL - 45

DO - 10.1002/berj.3496 JO - British Educational Research Journal, ER -

References

^ Shahid, Kunwar Khuldune. "The Defiance of Pakistani Atheists". thediplomat.com. Retrieved 2020-05-15.
^ Abdul-Jubbar, Kareem. "Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on Two Books About Muslim Identity". New York Times. Retrieved 19 April 2018.
^ ^a ^b Kamal Al-Solaylee (25 November 2016). "Review: Ali A. Rizvi's The Atheist Muslim is a passionate, timely but, ultimately, muddled plea for reform in Islam". The Globe and Mail. Retrieved 19 April 2018.
^ Amos, Owen (November 28, 2017). "They Left Islam and Now Tour the US to Talk about It". BBC News. Retrieved February 20, 2018.
^ "Sarah Haider – Writer, Activist, Founder of Ex-Muslims Of North America (Episode Co-Hosted by Sarah Nicholson". www.womenbeyondbelief.com. Archived from the original on 10 October 2017.
^ Haider, Sarah (December 19, 2016). "Sarah Haider on Leaving Islam, Changing Liberals' Minds, and Ex-Muslims of North America". Areo. Interviewed by Mali, Malhar. Retrieved February 20, 2018.
^ ^a ^b "Blasphemy and the Importance of Dissent". Center for Inquiry Western New York. 2015. Retrieved 17 May 2018.
^ Seth Andrews (30 September 2015). "Reaching Out to Ex-Muslims". The Thinking Atheist. Blog Talk Radio. Retrieved 17 May 2018.
^ "Muhammad Syed". The Humanist. Retrieved 17 May 2018.
^ ^a ^b Doldersum, Eline (13 December 2016). "Fauzia nam afstand van de islam: ik zie mijn dochtertje (9) al 5 jaar niet". Vrouw (in Dutch). De Telegraaf. Retrieved 19 August 2017. Het tweetal vlucht via Dubai naar Nederland waar ze nu al een jaar verblijven in een asielzoekerscentrum. [...] Fauzia en Sayed weten te ontkomen, al wordt er wel een aanklacht ingediend bij de politie tegen Fauzia wegens godslastering, afvalligheid en het oprichten van een organisatie voor ongelovige ex-moslims.
^ ^a ^b Khan, Deeyah (13 October 2016). Islam's Non-Believers. This website [Atheist & Agnostic Alliance Pakistan] was set up in 2011 for atheists in Pakistan, but its founder Fauzia Ilyas faced multiple death threats and was charged with blasphemy.
^ ^a ^b ^c van Straaten, Floris (21 December 2015). "Toen ik hem het hardst nodig had, was Allah er niet". nrc.nl (in Dutch). NRC Handelsblad. Retrieved 19 August 2017. Het betekende het begin van een jarenlange lijdensweg, die haar van haar islamitische geloof zou doen vallen en voorlopig zou eindigen in een asielzoekerscentrum in Den Helder. [...] Nog datzelfde jaar richtten de twee de Atheists & Agnostics Alliance Pakistan (AAAP) op. [...] In april van dit jaar gebeurde wat Fauzia en Sayed al langer hadden gevreesd: iemand kwam achter Fauzia's identiteit en toog naar de politie om een aanklacht in te dienen wegens blasfemie: hij zei aanstoot te hebben genomen aan haar opvattingen.
^ "2Doc: Ongelovig - Vrijdenkers op de vlucht". Human (in Dutch). Retrieved 19 August 2017. Samen met haar man Syed richtte Fauzia in Pakistan een vereniging voor atheïsten en agnosten op. Ze kregen te maken met een aanklacht wegens blasfemie.
^ Κύρκος, M. (12 January 2017). "Η Ύπατη Εκπρόσωπος της ΕΕ, Federica Mogherini, και τα κράτη μέλη πρέπει να εντείνουν τις ενέργειές τους για την προώθηση και την προστασία της ελευθερίας εκδήλωσης όχι μόνο θεϊστικών, αλλά και μη θεϊστικών και αθεϊστικών πεποιθήσεων". European Parliament (in Greek). European Union. Retrieved 19 August 2017. Την έκθεση παρουσίασε ο Διευθυντής του IHEU Bob Churchill, ενώ για τις απειλές θανάτου που έλαβε ως ιδρυτής της αγνωστικιστικής και αθεϊστής συμμαχίας στο Πακιστάν μίλησε η Fauzia Ilyas.
^ Doldersum, Eline (13 December 2016). "Fauzia moest vluchten omdat ze afstand deed van de islam". De Telegraaf (in Dutch). Retrieved 19 August 2017. Ze verliest haar dochtertje en vriendinnen en wordt door familie met de dood bedreigd.

About the Third Opinion request: The request made at Third Opinion has been removed (i.e. declined). Like all other moderated content dispute resolution venues at Wikipedia, Third Opinion requires thorough talk page discussion before seeking assistance. One post by each party cannot be considered thorough discussion; discussion requires some back-and-forth responding to the points and issues raised by both editors. — TransporterMan (TALK) 16:45, 3 September 2020 (UTC) (Not watching this page)[reply]

Dissident Pakistani exiles

Useful refs

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias are for expanding information and knowledge' (talk) 16:28, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Forced marriage and honor killings

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/may/24/sisters-allegedly-murdered-by-husbands-in-pakistan-honour-killing

Requested move 18 April 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) – Material Works 21:12, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Overseas Pakistani → Pakistani diaspora – Undiscussed move in 2014 but also the article is about the diaspora and thus the title should match the rest of the diaspora articles. WikiCleanerMan (talk) 02:07, 18 April 2023 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). WikiCleanerMan (talk) 15:57, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. Better title and in line with similar articles on other groups. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:49, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Pakistani Immigration to the U.K. in the 1950s-1960s

I would like to expand on the section talking about Pakistani immigration to the U.K. as I would like to add some clarity and further explanation to that section. The source that will be referenced is the book, Kinship and Continuity: Pakistani Families in Britain by Alison Shaw who is a professor of anthropology at Oxford. I would like to add around 4-6 sentences on the topic discussing why people migrated to Britain, the laws that allowed them to migrate there, and where they settled in Britain. I would like to talk about the 1948 British Nationality Act that allowed Pakistanis, as part of the British Empire, to go to the U.K. without difficulty which would explain why the immigrants chose to go the Britain over any other country. I would also like to add something about the exact cities or towns that the immigrants went to to live and work after they arrived in Britain. There would also be a section added on the towns and regions that the immigrants left in Pakistan and why they chose to leave for Britain. Please let me know if these changes are acceptable, thank you.

Shaw, Alison (2014-02-04). Kinship and Continuity: Pakistani Families in Britain. Routledge. ISBN 978-1-134-43430-5.

Andrew233223 (talk) 21:27, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Andrew233223 I find your proposition to be quite interesting. You are most welcome and best wishes for your academic assignments. Bookku (talk) 01:34, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education assignment: Migration in World History

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 31 January 2023 and 19 May 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Andrew233223 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Andrew233223 (talk) 00:47, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Shahid, Kunwar Khuldune. "The Defiance of Pakistani Atheists". thediplomat.com. Retrieved 2020-05-15.

[KareemAJ-2] Abdul-Jubbar, Kareem. "Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on Two Books About Muslim Identity". New York Times. Retrieved 19 April 2018.

[Solaylee-3] Kamal Al-Solaylee (25 November 2016). "Review: Ali A. Rizvi's The Atheist Muslim is a passionate, timely but, ultimately, muddled plea for reform in Islam". The Globe and Mail. Retrieved 19 April 2018.

[BBC-4] Amos, Owen (November 28, 2017). "They Left Islam and Now Tour the US to Talk about It". BBC News. Retrieved February 20, 2018.

[5] "Sarah Haider – Writer, Activist, Founder of Ex-Muslims Of North America (Episode Co-Hosted by Sarah Nicholson". www.womenbeyondbelief.com. Archived from the original on 10 October 2017.

[6] Haider, Sarah (December 19, 2016). "Sarah Haider on Leaving Islam, Changing Liberals' Minds, and Ex-Muslims of North America". Areo. Interviewed by Mali, Malhar. Retrieved February 20, 2018.

[WestNY-7] "Blasphemy and the Importance of Dissent". Center for Inquiry Western New York. 2015. Retrieved 17 May 2018.

[Andrews-8] Seth Andrews (30 September 2015). "Reaching Out to Ex-Muslims". The Thinking Atheist. Blog Talk Radio. Retrieved 17 May 2018.

[Muhammad_Syed-9] "Muhammad Syed". The Humanist. Retrieved 17 May 2018.

[vrouw-10] Doldersum, Eline (13 December 2016). "Fauzia nam afstand van de islam: ik zie mijn dochtertje (9) al 5 jaar niet". Vrouw (in Dutch). De Telegraaf. Retrieved 19 August 2017. Het tweetal vlucht via Dubai naar Nederland waar ze nu al een jaar verblijven in een asielzoekerscentrum. [...] Fauzia en Sayed weten te ontkomen, al wordt er wel een aanklacht ingediend bij de politie tegen Fauzia wegens godslastering, afvalligheid en het oprichten van een organisatie voor ongelovige ex-moslims.

[khan-11] Khan, Deeyah (13 October 2016). Islam's Non-Believers. This website [Atheist & Agnostic Alliance Pakistan] was set up in 2011 for atheists in Pakistan, but its founder Fauzia Ilyas faced multiple death threats and was charged with blasphemy.

[nrc-12] van Straaten, Floris (21 December 2015). "Toen ik hem het hardst nodig had, was Allah er niet". nrc.nl (in Dutch). NRC Handelsblad. Retrieved 19 August 2017. Het betekende het begin van een jarenlange lijdensweg, die haar van haar islamitische geloof zou doen vallen en voorlopig zou eindigen in een asielzoekerscentrum in Den Helder. [...] Nog datzelfde jaar richtten de twee de Atheists & Agnostics Alliance Pakistan (AAAP) op. [...] In april van dit jaar gebeurde wat Fauzia en Sayed al langer hadden gevreesd: iemand kwam achter Fauzia's identiteit en toog naar de politie om een aanklacht in te dienen wegens blasfemie: hij zei aanstoot te hebben genomen aan haar opvattingen.

[human-13] "2Doc: Ongelovig - Vrijdenkers op de vlucht". Human (in Dutch). Retrieved 19 August 2017. Samen met haar man Syed richtte Fauzia in Pakistan een vereniging voor atheïsten en agnosten op. Ze kregen te maken met een aanklacht wegens blasfemie.

[eu-14] Κύρκος, M. (12 January 2017). "Η Ύπατη Εκπρόσωπος της ΕΕ, Federica Mogherini, και τα κράτη μέλη πρέπει να εντείνουν τις ενέργειές τους για την προώθηση και την προστασία της ελευθερίας εκδήλωσης όχι μόνο θεϊστικών, αλλά και μη θεϊστικών και αθεϊστικών πεποιθήσεων". European Parliament (in Greek). European Union. Retrieved 19 August 2017. Την έκθεση παρουσίασε ο Διευθυντής του IHEU Bob Churchill, ενώ για τις απειλές θανάτου που έλαβε ως ιδρυτής της αγνωστικιστικής και αθεϊστής συμμαχίας στο Πακιστάν μίλησε η Fauzia Ilyas.

[telegraaf-15] Doldersum, Eline (13 December 2016). "Fauzia moest vluchten omdat ze afstand deed van de islam". De Telegraaf (in Dutch). Retrieved 19 August 2017. Ze verliest haar dochtertje en vriendinnen en wordt door familie met de dood bedreigd.

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