Talk:Orkjärv bog

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Requested move 16 August 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved DrStrauss talk 18:40, 23 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

– The same rationale as here. Both, bog and nature reserve, are named after a lake (Orkjärv) and these's no place for which the standard name form would be genitive 'Orkjärve'. 90.191.76.154 (talk) 15:37, 16 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds legit. Yakikaki (talk) 06:51, 17 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The previous renaming may sound legit but is still utterly stupid. Lake (et: järv) may indeed be Orkjärv, but location is Orkjärve. Ivo (talk) 13:57, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Kruusamägi: stupid? Place (location) named "Orkjärve" does not exist. Even if there was village named Orkjärve, then it'd be still quite certain that bog, nature reserve and village were all named after the lake, not the other way around. Also, cf. "Tallinn Airport" (not "Tallinna Airport") etc. 2001:7D0:88F1:6B80:EAC4:6FB6:C5C:281B (talk) 07:23, 14 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Location names in Estonia always end with vowel (a, e, i, o, u). Tal+linn is a super rare exemption to the rule (the other one being Jaani+linn, which no longer belongs to Estonia). All the other thousands and thousand of place names follow that rule. Assuming that this thing there would be the only other exemption next to Tallinn is clearly not a very wise assumption. Ivo (talk) 09:16, 14 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This is true for names of Estonian settlements, and not for names of lakes ("Orkjärv"), protected areas and other geographical features. To clarify, I brought the example of "Tallinn Airport" as this name is put together from namesake name ("Tallinn") and generic term ("airport"). In English language the namesake name in such names normally uses the standard name form (nominative), unlike in Estonian language where grammar requires genitive case of course (also in foreign place names). Here the name of the bog is similarly put together from lake name and generic term "bog". 2001:7D0:88F1:6B80:9251:28DF:F87D:A028 (talk) 19:27, 14 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The name of the bog is still "Orkjärve soo" in Estonian. Why should in English this name be recreated from scratch and not used the Estonian name (Orkjärve)? Ivo (talk) 19:33, 14 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As said, Estonian grammar is different. It did use the Estonian name "Orkjärv" which is simply the standard name form (nominative) in Estonian. Do you also have a problem with "Tallinn Airport" then? You would correct it to "Tallinna Airport" in similar manner?

Namesake in such names is in most cases a settlement, and then Estonian and English language name indeed normally use the same name form as nominative and genitive are the same for most Estonian settlement names. This is probably the reason why different namesakes, like lakes, or this exceptional "Tallinn" may be confusing and people sometimes forget to correct the name form when translating such names into English.

Or similarly, we don't say "Dublin lennujaam" in Estonian, it's instead "recreated from scratch" as "Dublini lennujaam". :) 2001:7D0:88F1:6B80:9251:28DF:F87D:A028 (talk) 20:05, 14 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]