Talk:O.N.E. (song)

Organisation of National Ex-Servicemen

The primary meaning of the abbreviation O.N.E. would be Óglaigh Náisiúnta Na hÉireann rather than a No.190 single in the UK. If there are other current acronyms then a redirect to dab would be better. In ictu oculi (talk) 15:41, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

29 November 2017‎ Ss112 (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (333 bytes) (0)‎ . . (Ss112 moved page Talk:One (Yeasayer song) to Talk:O.N.E. (song): Yes, it is an acronym. It's taken from the first line of the song: "One's not enough".) (undo | thank)

@Ss112: you added "The title is an acronym" : do you have any WP:RS source evidence that the title is an wikt:acronym and pronounced "Oh-En-Ee", rather than a wikt:stylisation prounced "one"? In ictu oculi (talk) 13:00, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@In ictu oculi: You appeared to contradict yourself after you moved the page, considering you are the one who inserted the line "The song begins 'One's not enough'" into the lead. Why put that there if you didn't believe it could be an acronym? Various sources (that I have not checked the validity of) state it's an acronym, and I don't believe a band or an act would stylise a title with periods in it if they just meant the word "one". I'm very well aware of what an acronym and a stylisation are, and I don't need to be linked to them. Ss 112 13:07, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Okay so since you do understand the difference between an acronym and a stylization, then please provide WP:RS evidence that this is an acronym pronounced "Oh-En-Ee" In ictu oculi (talk) 13:09, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Don't condescend to me, In ictu oculi. You've done this before, asking me if I know the difference between things. A music act would not stylise a title with periods in it if it didn't stand for something, with each letter indicating a word. The page has been at "O.N.E." for years, and now you're going to come along and imply it's original research when it's right there on the cover. I would think since you're debating it only now, you need to provide evidence it's not an acronym since you're the only one who's ever had an objection. It's not ambiguous, like if it just said "ONE" in all caps without periods. That's like saying any instance of an acronym is WP:OR if we don't have a reliable source calling it one when it should be obvious due to how it's written right there on the cover. Ss 112 13:12, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I am not being condescending, I am asking for sources. When the song starts "One..." and in Youtube interviews and on radio DJs refer to it as "One", we must supply evidence that the title is an acronym not just a stylization. In ictu oculi (talk) 13:15, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You were condescending in the first iteration of that message, then you edited it. Stopping a discussion to ask if somebody even knows what they're talking about just because you disagree is pretty condescending. To continue on with what should be talked about, I would say that's just because where possible, people pronounce acronyms as if they were one word. Regardless, published sources take preference over pronunciation. The majority of news sources refer to it as "O.N.E." (or "O.N.E"). [1], [2], [3], [4], [5] I still think the user debating after two years of the page existing at "O.N.E." that it's even an acronym needs to provide more compelling evidence than "but radio DJs...". The burden isn't on me to prove it's not meant as one word. You moved it, I undid it. It's not as if the page should have always been at "One", when saying it must mean the word "One" because of a few pronunciations is what sounds like WP:OR here to me. Ss 112 13:27, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This isn't a debate about pronunciation. If you don't have any published, written, reliable news sources that refer to the title as just "One" when all those I can find state it is "O.N.E.", I'm calling that WP:OR. Ss 112 13:36, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This is a debate about whether your claim in the lead paragraph that the title is O.N.E and "an acronym" is consistent with band members describing this non-charting song as "One" in a YouTube interview. The song is clearly not called Oh-En-Ee, so your addition of "an acronym" in the article second sentence is not correct. You could say "the song is called "One", by stylized as O.N.E. In ictu oculi (talk) 15:03, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Which is what the lead said in fact:

"One" (stylized as O.N.E.) is a song by American experimental rock band Yeasayer. The song begins "One's not enough".

That is how the lead should read. In ictu oculi (talk) 15:04, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I reiterate: This is not a debate about pronunciation. What people pronounce it as is irrelevant. It's not a stylisation for "One", so I reject your version of the lead outright. You added the bit about the song starting off "One's not enough", all I did was add to that. Also, you're right—it's not called "Oh-En-Ee". It's written "O.N.E." quite consistently among all published sources. I've provided ones for it being called "O.N.E." and your only claim for it being called "One" is "it's pronounced that way". You're the one that has an issue with the way the page was. Provide sources for it being published as "One" or I think this is about done. Ss 112 15:08, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You are welcome to reiterate as many times as you wish, but the song is still pronounced "One" (as the first word of the song) and I believe that information in the article should correctly show this. In ictu oculi (talk) 15:21, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed the line about its lyrics entirely. Doesn't mean it's a stylisation for "One" just because that's said at the start, because that's as much of an WP:OR claim as places like Songfacts stating "O.N.E" stands for "One's Not Enough" (yes, aware Songfacts is not reliable, but that is a source of the claim). Published sources say "O.N.E." not "One". Ss 112 15:23, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Now that really is being unhelpful to readers. You removed the information about the song lyrics to support your claim that the title is pronounced Oh Enn Eee? It is perfectly legitimate to have information about lyrics in a song article, you know this. In ictu oculi (talk) 15:28, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, because it was unsourced and we were both using its opening line to support conflicting claims (the word "one" is used, and its opening words form an acronym). We need a published source stating those are its lyrics, and lyrics sites aren't reliable. Ss 112 15:29, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This giant wall of text to support an edit claiming that this song beginning "One...." is not pronounced "One" but might be pronounced Oh-en-ee.... In ictu oculi (talk) 15:53, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This is the last time I'm going to state this for you and my own sake: I was not debating about pronunciation. This is not about its pronunciation for me. You brought that up. You can pronounce "one" as "woh-ah-nee" for all I care. This debate happened after you moved the page and claimed how the song's title is written, "O.N.E", is merely a stylisation for "One", so my case is what the song is written as and what sources have written it as is "O.N.E." and anything else is WP:OR. If you feel so strongly about the page's location, please open a requested move. If that's not what it's about, your claim that's just a stylisation is unsourced. That's all. I'm done. Ss 112 16:00, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 26 January 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved. to O.N.E. (song) and turned O.N.E. to redirect to ONE to allow easy access to other acronyms as there's consensus for this. (non-admin closure) –Ammarpad (talk) 14:28, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

O.N.E. → One (Yeasayer song) – Lyrics "One's not enough / I won't stop till I've given you up / Here, right as I am, it's hard having fun / It's much easier said than it's done"... First problem is that this #190-charting song fails WP:NSONG and should be merged to the album. But if not doing that then the WP:MOSTM stylism should be corrected to "One". Failing that then this should be O.N.E. (song), and O.N.E. should redirect to the ONE dab page to allow readers to access Organisation of National Ex-Servicemen etc. In ictu oculi (talk) 19:16, 26 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Not a stylisation; as stated above, "O.N.E." has been said to stand for the first few words, "One's not enough". Published sources also refer to it as "O.N.E" or "O.N.E." (as does the front cover) and not "One": [6], [7], [8], [9], [10] I think "One" appears to be WP:OR, with the only apparent "evidence" being the lyrics. "Track 5 off of Odd Blood, O.N.E. — One's Not Enough", "The title of "O.N.E." is a backronym for "One's not enough", the song's first line", "We believe this is an acronym for the opening line 'One's not enough'"... Ss112 19:51, 26 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
~~Oppose~~ Oppose merge, support move to O.N.E. (song) – First, "this #190-charting song fails WP:NSONG", did you forget that this charted in Belgium too? Charting at #190 in the UK shouldn't make it fail WP:NSONG anyway. Second, having it as "One (Yeasayer song)" would be incorrect, per Ss112's reasoning. With it being written out as "O.N.E." while the very first line of the song being "One's not enough", which sets a path for the song's lyrical content, it should stay as O.N.E. or at the very least O.N.E. (song). Aria1561 (talk) 22:09, 26 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Aria1561: the problem is, those three blogs, are they reliable sources or is it just someone speculating, it looks like just chat on a blog. But okay, on to (song), page views indicate that the Irish O.N.E. gets twice the views of the Yeasayer O.N.E. so you'd accept (song) being added? 01:31, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

I'm fine with O.N.E. (song). Aria1561 (talk) 02:12, 27 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Great - that would certainly solve the main problem here. Thank you. In ictu oculi (talk) 11:56, 27 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Move to O.N.E. (song) per above discussion; no one has objected to that. —BarrelProof (talk) 13:11, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Move to O.N.E. (song), not primary for an acronym; "One" is blatant WP:OR. © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 20:50, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Move to O.N.E. (song), per above discussion. This song isn't the primary topic for acronyms and initialisms of "ONE". Paintspot Infez (talk) 13:10, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.