Talk:The Nomad Soul

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The Nomad Soul has been listed as one of the Video games good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

The Nomad Soul is part of the Games by Quantic Dream series, a good topic. This is identified as among the best series of articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do so.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
July 3, 2019	Good article nominee	Listed
June 25, 2020	Good topic candidate	Promoted

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on July 19, 2019.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that David Cage started writing the video game The Nomad Soul because he had grown tired of being a composer?

Current status: Good article

Video games Low‑importance

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Merge discussions

Other discussions

No major discussions

Minor detail cleanup

This article seems to have a lot of unnecessary detail, for example the long section about various food/drink items in the game. Any thoughts on what does and doesn't belong in the scope of this article?✨Nivomi👀👌💯 (talk) 06:53, 11 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Category:David Bowie

This should not be included as it fails WP:PERFCAT and WP:NONDEFINING. --wooden superman 14:25, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Woodensuperman, following up to my prior statements, search Google for "David Bowie video game", and you will find that this game was the only one to ever include Bowie, and it did so in multiple forms. Bowie scored it, performed in it, and made a huge impact on the game's legacy (as remembered by [1], [2] and others). It is thus not just "another performance", it was the only one, and there is no otherwise suitable "David Bowie video games" category per SMALLCAT. Defining category is given either way due to the aformentioned legacy. Lordtobi (✉) 15:07, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. Even if there was a category called Category:David Bowie video games, this article would not belong in it, at he did not create the game. It could however belong in a potential category called Category:Video games scored by David Bowie, but to place this in the eponymous category is WP:UNDUE. --wooden superman 15:09, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In fact, that is exactly what we should do. Have created that category. --wooden superman 15:12, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

But, wouldn't that fall under WP:SMALLCAT? Lordtobi (✉) 16:48, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not for existing category structures such as that, I don't think so - I think "unless such categories are part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme" applies here. --wooden superman 07:57, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:The Nomad Soul/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Megaman en m (talk · contribs) 11:50, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

Don't know much at all about this game, but I'm willing to give it a shot! I'll be reviewing each section individually.--Megaman en m (talk) 11:50, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

General

Per MOS:VG, the lead and review infoboxes don't need citations if it's already sourced in the body.--Megaman en m (talk) 13:01, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

Done The lead should be expanded by mentioning the nominations and sequel in order to be comprehensive. The low sales in North America is also noteworthy.--Megaman en m (talk) 13:01, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I chose not to mention the sequel, as it doesn't exist. Cognissonance (talk) 14:35, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough, but the lead should be representative of the whole article. A single sentence mentioning the planned sequel's fate would suffice.--Megaman en m (talk) 15:40, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done "...signed a publishing deal with Eidos in 1997." Having difficulty with finding the source for this. It's not directly mentioned in the article. Source #8 says nothing about Eidos and source #7 says that he was traveling to Eidos to show off his game in 1998, not 1997.--Megaman en m (talk) 13:01, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It is mentioned in Development with source #6. Source #7 in the note is just to give context that it was founded the same year as the publishing deal. Source #8 says it was done 22 years prior to the tweet. 2019 - 22 = 1997. Cognissonance (talk) 14:15, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Got it.--Megaman en m (talk) 15:40, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done "The Nomad Soul was well received by critics..." Not should if 66% and 75% review scores means it was well received. Maybe something more neutral like "received mixed reviews", or some other formulation.--Megaman en m (talk) 13:01, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done The lead mentions that the lack of immersion was criticized, this seems to be based off one single reviewer. Meanwhile, Game Revolution stated that "The Nomad Soul the first game to approach total immersion". I'd edit or remove the line as to not make it seem like the immersion was universally disliked by critics.--Megaman en m (talk) 13:01, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Gameplay

I couldn't find a copy of the manual online, so I'll be take the sourcing of this section on WP:GOODFAITH.--Megaman en m (talk) 13:01, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done "...using vehicles known as Sliders..." What do they look like? Just your average 4-wheeled car? The name makes it sound more exotic.--Megaman en m (talk) 13:01, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think the manual specified their appearance, but they are difficult to describe simply through a Google search. Cognissonance (talk) 14:15, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

From google images, it look like a futuristic, flying car. You said in one of your edits that you don't "call in" a cab, I was under the impression this was some sort of autonomous vehicle you call in with your SNEAK. So is this a vehicle the player controls directly, or does it just drive itself, with or without a jumpcut to your destination?--Megaman en m (talk) 15:40, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It drives itself and is a form of fast travel. Cognissonance (talk) 17:36, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, according to this, you can use it as fast travel and manually drive it. But as GOG isn't a reliable source, I think simply saying you "use" them covers everything. Cognissonance (talk) 20:15, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough, let it stay as is.--Megaman en m (talk) 12:35, 5 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done The three different perspective are mentioned twice: once in the gameplay lead and another time when describing the combat. These can be merged.--Megaman en m (talk) 13:01, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done I changed a line to read: "the player may also gain combat practice." Does this simply refer to experience point? More explanation is needed.--Megaman en m (talk) 13:01, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not necessary. They were all listed in the manual, each ending with "This can be improved with practice." Cognissonance (talk) 14:15, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done The term "body resistance" is equally vague.--Megaman en m (talk) 13:01, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Manual: "The ability of the character to resist or defend himself against an attack." Cognissonance (talk) 14:15, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I recognize that's probably the term the game itself uses, but it could do with some clarification. Something like "... and body resistance (which reduces incoming damage) with practice."--Megaman en m (talk) 15:40, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You could also say "which resists damage to the body". I don't understand why body resistance is vague. Cognissonance (talk) 17:47, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'm just looking at it from the perspective of someone who isn't familiar with video game concepts like skills or stats. I added "(which helps resist incoming damage)" as a descriptor.--Megaman en m (talk) 12:35, 5 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done "talking to NPCs (of which there are more than 140)..." Source #3 says there are "about 130 or 140 characters". I'm not sure if the number should even be mentioned to be honest.--Megaman en m (talk) 13:01, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done "They are afforded a piece of equipment known as SNEAK" Given? Granted? Addtionally, more information on what this "piece of equipment" actually is would be nice. Is it a PDA? Phone?--Megaman en m (talk) 13:01, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done "switching SNEAKs..." Wait, there is more than one of these things? And they're all different I assume? Now I'm even more confused.--Megaman en m (talk) 13:01, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Still unsure on what the difference between SNEAKs is.--Megaman en m (talk) 15:40, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Manual doesn't say. Cognissonance (talk) 17:52, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If we can't explain the difference between SNEAKs, then it doesn't add much to the article. I removed it for now, feel free to re-add it if you find more information about it.--Megaman en m (talk) 12:35, 5 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done "...separated into four categories: Magic Rings, Seteks, Map, and List." What are Seteks? Regardless, the way in which the inventory is divided isn't particularly notable for an encyclopedia, I'd remove it entirely.--Megaman en m (talk) 13:01, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done "Magic rings allow the player to ... buy advice about NPCs." More clarification is needed. What kind of advice?--Megaman en m (talk) 13:01, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Still needs clarification. Is it advice to progress the story? General gameplay tips?--Megaman en m (talk) 15:40, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done "If the SNEAK inventory is full, artefacts can be transferred or deposited into the Multiplan Virtual Locker" Artefacts? So just like, regular items? Also what is this locker exactly?--Megaman en m (talk) 13:01, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Synopsis

Done The whole section relies on the game itself as the source. Citing the game is fine according to the MoS for video games, but it also requires additional secondary sources. You can dig through reviews, previews and interview to find some corroborating sources about the game's plot.--Megaman en m (talk) 15:40, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Went through all the reviews. Not any lore mentions in interviews as I can remember. Can't find reliable sources for some things. Cognissonance (talk) 19:06, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done The setting section includes some plot as well. The following section should be incorporated into the plot section directly: "At the start of the game, the player is asked by an Omikronian police officer named Kay'l 669 to leave their dimension and enter Omikron within his body. After doing so, the player continues with the investigation of serial killings that Kay'l and his partner Den were originally working on, attempting to pick up where Kay'l was apparently stopped from investigating."--Megaman en m (talk) 15:40, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
What became of the supercomputer Ix? It's mentioned in the setting, but not in the story at all. Is it not relevant to the story?--Megaman en m (talk) 15:43, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Setting

No problems found.--Megaman en m (talk) 15:41, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Plot

Done "the second planet of the star Rad'an" Rad'an doesn't seem to come up after this, Remove it, if possible.--Megaman en m (talk) 15:40, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done "to leave their dimension and enter Omikron within his body." After reading this multiple times, I have determined that this must be a fourth-wall breaking event where Kay'l talks to the player directly and lets them control him. Usually "the player" refers to the player character. It should make it clear that it is the player that is being addressed directly, not an in-game character.--Megaman en m (talk) 15:40, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It is made clear: "the player is asked by an Omikronian police officer named Kay'l 669 to leave their dimension and enter Omikron within his body". Cognissonance (talk) 18:03, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done "the player is invited to join the mysterious anti-government movement named "The Awakened"" Is this the same anti-government movement from before, or another one? If it's the same, it should be clarified with a sentence like "The anti-government movement is revealed to be named "The Awakened", and invites the players to join them."--Megaman en m (talk) 15:40, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done "Only by harnessing ancient, magical technology and by re-discovering several hidden tombs underneath Omikron's surface, can the Nomad Soul hope to discover how to destroy Astaroth, return to his own dimension, and prevent his soul from being captured by demons." This reads like borderline promotional material. I rewrote it for a more encyclopedic tone, please confirm that I didn't accidentally misrepresent the plot.--Megaman en m (talk) 15:40, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done "After harnessing ancient, magical technology and re-discovering several hidden tombs underneath Omikron's surface, the Nomad Soul discovers how to destroy Astaroth." This still feels like a sort of non-sequitur. How does the magical technology and hidden tombs tie into defeating Astaroth, or into the story at all?--Megaman en m (talk) 15:40, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Development and release

Done "...played an "incarnable"" What is that?--Megaman en m (talk) 16:15, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Source #9 mentions a soundtrack CD coming up soon, did anything become of that?--Megaman en m (talk) 16:15, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Can't find a reliable source for that. Cognissonance (talk) 18:42, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Reception

Done Haven't read it yet, but I can already tell that it's going to have to be split up into smaller sections. The first paragraph is kind of monolithic. Try to group similar praise/criticism together into one paragraph.--Megaman en m (talk) 16:20, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I separated the two paragraphs into four, but the style you suggested is not how I write Reception sections. Cognissonance (talk) 19:23, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The section is generally well-written, although it is a bit large and relies too much on direct quotes. Absolutely nothing to stop it from attaining GA status though.--Megaman en m (talk) 13:39, 5 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It should be noted that source #28, Gamecenter, underwent discussions as to its reliability as was listed as "inconclusive" in WP:VG/S.--Megaman en m (talk) 13:43, 5 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sequel

No problems.--Megaman en m (talk) 13:39, 5 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Conclusion

Just realized that as it stands, there is nothing holding this article back from attaining GA status. Well done! You can continue improving the article and tying up any loose ends as you want.--Megaman en m (talk) 13:49, 5 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Next Generation review

In case anyone would ever find this useful, there is another review in Next Generation magazine: https://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=The_Nomad_Soul&diff=923203502&oldid=921713635 BOZ (talk) 05:20, 2 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Olivier Demangel

Over at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Video_games/Archive_156#The_Nomad_Soul some discussion was begun on a claim that this individual contributed significantly to the game and as such should have been creditted. It seems that we were able to establish the claim as largely true, although uncertainty over if they should be listed as "director" or "producer" was present.

It seems including under either label would be preferable to excluding them, although I'll admit I am not confident which label is more suitable. If anyone has thoughts either way, please do contribute. 94.13.35.21 (talk) 14:04, 25 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]