Talk:Nina Dobrev/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Ian Somerhalder

It is very obvious that she is dating her co-star Ian Somerhalder. There were spotted in Paris together holding hands and stuff. Their mothers were even with them. There are various internet articles with the pictures. http://hollywoodcrush.mtv.com/2011/05/25/nina-dobrev-ian-somerhalder-in-paris/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.231.210.60 (talk) 22:10, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

And now they confirmed that they are a couple for a long time now at the latest CW Fall Premiere Party. How much do you guys still need to wait to put that in the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.231.208.127 (talk) 14:06, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Then be not afraid and put it in. The page is not edit-protected. --Ebyabe (talk) 17:32, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

As long as it is sourced properly. Nymf _hideliho! 17:39, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Agree, definitely. --Ebyabe (talk) 17:49, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Why do some editors prefer using digitalspy.ie as a source [1] [2] ? Gimmetoo (talk) 23:22, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Maybe they think b/c it's a secondary source it's better? Maybe they don't like US Weekly? I changed the Somerhalder one back to match what's here. Let's keep an eye on it and if it's changed, we'll see what we can find out. --‖ Ebyabe ^talk - Repel All Borders ‖ 23:40, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Personal life section

Apparently Dobrev is dating Ian Somerhalder. Isn't that relationship a part of her personal life, rather than her career? Antique Rose — Drop me a line 03:04, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

It is related to her personal life, but I definitely don't think that one line merits an entirely new section. We can leave it in career until there is more information to add to personal life since she's dating her co-star. Ryvenn (talk) 04:34, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

A separate, standalone section risks undue emphasis. The content is significant mainly because they work on the same show - if they didn't it might not merit a mention at all. Gimmetoo (talk) 13:17, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

I agree; as is outlined in WP:STRUCTURE, unnecessary section forking affects the neutrality and flow of the article. The size of the section is also insufficient, and should be around 70 words longer before it merits being added. Ryvenn (talk) 23:34, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

And so where do we put it? It's not related to her career. What about Early life (it's not so early, though). --Chiya⁹² 13:28, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Actually, no it can't go into career. Because, well, it's not part of her career. Yes, giving its own section is a problem. However, there is a way to solve it: combine "Early life" with "Personal life". Then you don't have an undue problem, and the information isn't falsely implies to be part of her career. Qwyrxian (talk) 23:40, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

This information is significant mainly because the two people work together on a show. Such info does fit well in the context of a discussion of that work. There are articles where such "personal" info is placed in a sequential context within "career" accomplishments. However, I'm not opposed to the "early and personal life" approach, even if it wouldn't be my first choice. Gimmetoo (talk) 23:47, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

I'm concerned that you went ahead with the change before consensus was reached; Gimmetoo and I raised valid points for why the relationship is relevant to her career, and I feel like that was ignored. I disagree with the naming of the section; what as listed as her early life should stay in that section. Instead, I think that we should arrange the article similarly to the Lindsay Lohan page. Please make sure that all concerns have been addressed before making another change, though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ryvenn (talk • contribs) 05:11, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Middle name

I removed her middle name entirely from the article. The only source was tv.com, which like imdb isn't really a reliable source for biographical info. If a reliable source can be found, one way or another, then it can be added back. But better not having it at all, than being inaccurate, per WP:BLP. Unfortunately, I expect this may lead to edit warring, since there seems to be such a fervid interest in this detail. But we'll cross that bridge, and all that. --‖ Ebyabe ^talk - Border Town ‖ 18:54, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

This issue has been around a long time. See User_talk:Blackbirdg. "Reliable" sources are difficult to find. In the first hundred links in [3] and [4], there seem to be two that might be construed as possibly "reliable" for the entertainment industry. One has K [5] and one has C [6]. Gimmetoo (talk) 20:30, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Maybe the middle name is not for sure but her actual last name is Dobreva. When she became an actress she changed it to Dobrev. (Like her Co-Star Paul Wesley, his actual name is Wasilewski) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.179.141.241 (talk) 23:19, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Then please provide a reliable source for that. Qwyrxian (talk) 03:44, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

There: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2400045/ it says Nina Constantinova Dobreva. And isn't it a littel obvious that her name is Dobreva? She is from Bulgaria and Dobrev is not a bulgarian name but Dobreva is and I read about her name-change so many times that it's a common knowlegde that her last name is acutally Dobrava. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.52.144.21 (talk) 21:29, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

This sort of info on imdb is user-submitted just like here. It has no value as a source. The middle name has been a clear source of contention and so needs a source. When people looked for sources, none showed up for the last name either. Gimmetoo (talk) 21:45, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I found an article written in cyrillic script which says "Nina Dobreva" (Нина Добрева) here. Don't know if it's a source --Chiya⁹² 13:43, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Here, after "From Fell's Church to Mystic Falls", there are the cast bios, where it says "Nina Costantinova Dobreva". --Chiya⁹² 11:44, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Magazine covers

The following table was added to the article. It's not in English, and it's also not sourced. Holding here if someone wants to work on it. Gimmetoo (talk) 02:58, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Publication	Date	Country
Nylon Magazine	Febrero, 2012	Estados Unidos
Seventeen Magazine	Abril, 2010	Estados Unidos
Seventeen Fitness ( Special Issue)	Febrero, 2011	Estados Unidos
Nylon Magazine	Febrero, 2010	Estados Unidos
Girl’s Life Magazine	Octubre/ Noviembre 2010	Estados Unidos
Saturday Night Magazine	Septiembre, 2010	Estados Unidos
Seventeen Magazine	Enero, 2011	México
Flare Magazine	Febrero, 2011	Cánada
Teen Vogue	Abril, 2011	Estados Unidos
ELLE Girl Magazine	Diciembre, 2010	Rusia
TV Guide Magazine	Octubre, 2010	Estados Unidos
Twist Magazine	Mayo, 2011	Polonia
Vse Zvezdy Magazine	Octubre, 2010	Rusia
Joy Magazine	Septiembre, 2011	Alemania
Twist Magazine	Septiembre, 2011	Polonia
Bravo Magazine	Agosto, 2011	Polonia
Glamour Magazine	Agosto, 2011	Bulgaria
Candy Magazine	Mayo, 2011	Filipinas
Go Girl Magazine	Febrero, 2010	Estados Unidos
Capricho Magazine	Octubre, 2011	Brasil
Cosmo Girl	Septiembre, 2011	Turquia
Jezebel Magazine	Junio, 2010	Estados Unidos
Joy Magazine	Septiembre, 2011	Bulgaria
Joy Magazine	Enero, 2012	Serbia
TV Guide Magazine	Julio, 2010	Estados Unidos
TV Guide Magazine	Enero, 2010	Estados Unidos
Seventeen Magazine	Agosto, 2010	Malasia
Seventeen Magazine	Mayo, 2010	Singapur
Seventeen Magazine	Mayo, 2010	Sudafrica
Girlfriend Magazine	Mayo, 2010	Australia
Elle Magazine	Noviembre, 2009	Bulgaria

I have translated and sourced the table but I haven't sorted it yet. I'm sorry but especially the foreign magazine covers are hard to source and these were all I could find. I'm not sure the table is relevant for the article but I did it anyway.

Publication	Date	Country	Source
Nylon Magazine	February, 2012	United States
Seventeen Magazine	April, 2010	United States
Seventeen Fitness ( Special Issue)	February, 2011	United States
Nylon Magazine	February, 2010	United States
Girl’s Life Magazine	October/November 2010	United States
Saturday Night Magazine	September, 2010	United States
Seventeen Magazine	January, 2011	Mexico
Flare Magazine	February, 2011	Canada
Teen Vogue	April, 2011	United States
ELLE Girl Magazine	December, 2010	Russia
TV Guide Magazine	October, 2010	United States
Twist Magazine	May, 2011	Poland
Vse Zvezdy Magazine	October, 2010	Russia
Joy Magazine	September, 2011	Germany
Twist Magazine	September, 2011	Poland
Bravo Magazine	August, 2011	Poland
Glamour Magazine	Agosto, 2011	Bulgaria
Candy Magazine	May, 2011	Phillipinnes
Go Girl Magazine	February, 2010	United States
Capricho Magazine	October, 2011	Brasil
Cosmo Girl	September, 2011	Turkey
Jezebel Magazine	June, 2010	United States
Joy Magazine	September, 2011	Bulgaria
Joy Magazine	January, 2012	Serbia
TV Guide Magazine	July, 2010	United States
TV Guide Magazine	January, 2010	United States
Seventeen Magazine	August, 2010	Malaysia
Seventeen Magazine	May, 2010	Singapore
Seventeen Magazine	May, 2010	South Africa
Girlfriend Magazine	May, 2010	Australia
Elle Magazine	November, 2009	Bulgaria

You Got That Light

In 2007 she had a speacial appearence in the music video You Got That Light by Wade Allain-Marcus and David Baum. You can watch it on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5jjmizKbog&feature=player_embedded#! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.179.142.90 (talk) 20:14, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Bulgaria

Please stop adding Bulgarian to the lede or the infobox. It is mentioned in the infobox and Early life section that she was born in Bulgaria. I suggest that we semi-protect the page for a while. teammathi 10:20, 26 July 2012 (CET)

Bulgarian name

I suggest that we only mention her Bulgarian name in the infobox since that's what her parents called her when she was born. Or we could add it to "native name" but I don't think that we should put both names in one section. teammathi 17:48, 28 July 2012 (CET)

I agree. That would be in accordance with wiki rules. --Garik 11 (talk) 21:09, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

With which ideo of the both do you agree? teammathi 0:43, 29 July 2012 (CET)

I tried using the "native name" field, but that doesn't seem to work well... Deryck C. 23:07, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

I changed it. teammathi 12:04, 29 July 2012 (CET)

Birth Name

She just mentioned in an interview that her birth name is Nikolina Dobreva and Nina comes from the first two letters and the two last ones so it woks as some sort of nickname and her actual first name is Nikolina. Here is the interview to watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdKEcmMFWKg — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.231.189.209 (talk) 18:50, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Middle name

Does anyone know if her middle name is Constantinova or Konstantinova? In Bulgarian the letter c is the same as k so the Bulgarian spelling is correct either way. Various websites have it with either spelling, although there does seem to be more with it spelt with a c. Anyone know?

According to the official transliteration, it should be K. --Chiya⁹² 12:03, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

But the English equivalent is stated as "c as in "cat""

That's an example of the pronunciation. (notice how for У у it says оо as in "tool") --Chiya⁹² 09:16, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 4 March 2013

Could you write in addition that she is a canadian actress that her origins are bulgarian 46.10.92.10 (talk) 22:10, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Also, where in the text would you like this to be inserted? HueSatLum 23:01, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 11 October 2012

Nina Dobrev CAN'T speak French FLUENTLY. She knows how to say "hello" "how are you" and "no" that's not fluent so please get it erase from her page. JessDddd (talk) 22:34, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. A boat that can float! (watch me float!) 06:21, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

In the Early Life section of the article it is written that "She speaks fluent French, English, and Bulgarian." But in the first reference from the article "Calhoun, Crissy (2010). "Cast Bios: Nina Dobrev". Love You To Death: The Unofficial Companion to The Vampire Diaries. Ecw Pr." on page 26 Nina Dobrev says "I definitely am bilingual." Could someone please explain to me how she can be bilingual and speak fluent three languages at the same time.Change this to Bulgarian and English in this order since Bulgarian is her native language and should be put first and besides alphabetically looks better--Dvrt09 (talk) 03:55, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

This article says she speaks three languages. --Chiya⁹² 09:52, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Then we have contradicting sources.The first source ("Calhoun, Crissy (2010). "Cast Bios: Nina Dobrev". Love You To Death") represents what Nina Dobrev says, the second source represents what Nylonmag says.But how do we decide which source is more reliable?! --Dvrt09 (talk) 11:16, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

And why the only source used in the first paragraph of the section Early Life is (""Calhoun, Crissy (2010). "Cast Bios: Nina Dobrev". Love You To Death: The Unofficial Companion to The Vampire Diaries. Ecw Pr.") which as I said contradict some of the information there. --Dvrt09 (talk) 11:43, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Not done: {{edit semi-protected}} is not required for edits to semi-protected, unprotected pages, or pending changes protected pages. Protection has expired, so I'm closing the edit request itself. Please continue to work toward WP:CONSENSUS on these discussions and keep the WP:BLP policy in mind! Thanks, --ElHef (Meep?) 01:38, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Personal Life

The short, easy version is that Wikipedia is not a gossip rag. We don't need to report on who someone is dating or not dating, that they've broken up or been rumored to have broken up or whatever. Yes, we can do so, but is this really some critical part of her encyclopedic story? In 30 years, when we look back on Dobrev's life/career, will it matter who she dated in 2013? This is the test we should be applying, especially when looking at personal information. Plus, this has the added benefit of stopping all of the pointless edit warring over what has or hasn't been "confirmed". Qwyrxian (talk) 14:30, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Photo

Why is there the old photo from 2010 again? Wouldn't it be better to keep a more accurate one? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.179.142.6 (talk) 23:00, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

User:Nymf reverted, and I agree, that the colors on the new photo were poor, thus making the image a worse representation of her. Qwyrxian (talk) 00:34, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

A better photo is needed!--88.111.123.67 (talk) 20:11, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 2 April 2013

Please change ",is a Canadian actress and model." to ",is a Bulgarian-Canadian actress and model" because http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2400045/bio and I think there are a lot more sources that will also back it up. She is a dual national not a sole Canadian one! 89.253.148.244 (talk) 20:01, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

• Not done:. Been over this already. See the archive and WP:OPENPARA. Nymf _{talk to me} 21:05, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

I did check it out but I still do not understand why all the other wikipedias in different languages have her as dual national only the english one is keeping it strictly Canadian ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.253.148.244 (talk) 19:03, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

No one has ever provided a reliable source that verifies she has dual nationality--IMDB is only reliable for things like cast lists, never for BLP info. Qwyrxian (talk) 14:47, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

I find this very biased.She was born in Bulgaria and her birth certificate is bulgarian which means she is automatically granted with bulgarian citizenship as a native citizen!!For your information you can't leave or enter a country without having a passport!!And she was living in Canada as a bulgarian immigrant until she aquired canadian citizenship as well.This means dual-citizenship.The only way she could lose her bulgarian citizenship is if she cancel it herself with the appropriate documents in the bulgarian ambassy.If you have sources which state that she cancelled her bulgarian citizenship please feel free to share it.Until then writing that she has only canadian citizenship without sources to back it up is extremely biased and one-sided.--Dvrt09 (talk) 15:17, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Find a reliable source that states that she has Bulgarian citizenship. WP:BLP explicitly states that we may never use government documents like birth certificates as reliable sources, because we have no way to verify the authenticity of the document; we are also not legal experts who know the rules on when and where dual nationality is legal. And your last point is simply ludicrous: no one ever has to find sources to prove a negative. The WP:BURDEN is always on someone who wants to add information. Until we have a reliable sources which states that she is Bulgarian, it cannot be in the article. As soon as we have such a source, we can include it. Qwyrxian (talk) 15:50, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Show me a reliable source which claims that she has only canadian citizenship.Now you have to prove a positive.Otherwise this article is misleading!!--Dvrt09 (talk) 16:17, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

The WP:BURDEN is on the person adding information, i.e. you. Nymf _{talk to me} 16:55, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

This article implies that she has only one canadian citizenship!!I asked for the reliable source which states this.--Dvrt09 (talk) 17:06, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

The article does not imply anything in regard to what her status in Bulgaria is. Here are the facts: she left the country at the age of two, and has been living in Canada ever since. If she gained citizenship before leaving Bulgaria, you would need a source stating this. Unless you do, this discussion is pointless. Nymf _{talk to me} 17:19, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

From where do you think she got her birth name Николина Константинова Добрева that is written in the article?!Or maybe canadians use bulgarian names and the cyrillic alphabet?!Anyway the fact is that in this article it is written that she has only one nationality-canadian without providing reliable sources to prove this.If you want consensus you should write that her nationality is disputable and to add bulgarian as well until some reliable sources are presented that she has only one nationality.It sounds fair to me.--Dvrt09 (talk) 17:52, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

On Lopez Tonight(17-11-2010) Nina Dobrev said herself that she is bulgarian.This is the youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDQ9aEGZHp0 --Dvrt09 (talk) 00:36, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Sofia News Agency(www.novinite.com) wrote about Nina "Bulgarian-Canadian actress".This is the link to this site: http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=122426 --Dvrt09 (talk) 10:20, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Another article from Sofia News Agency(www.novinite.com): http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=126487 --Dvrt09 (talk) 10:50, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

This is reference N:7 from the wikipage of Nina Dobrev:"^ Finke, Nikki (2011-04-15). "Nina Dobrev Goes From 'Vampire Diaries' To 'The Perks Of Being A Wallflower'". Deadline.com. Retrieved 2011-04-17."This is the link: http://www.deadline.com/2011/04/123303/ In this article it is written again: "Bulgarian-Canadian actress" --Dvrt09 (talk) 12:45, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Another article from OnePressNews which says: "Nationality Bulgarian-Canadian".This is the link: http://www.onepressnews.com/2012-06-30-nina-dobrev --Dvrt09 (talk) 19:37, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

I think the first article from novinite.com is a reliable source, as Dobrev claims to be Bulgarian. --Chiya⁹² 13:18, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you @Chiya92 for your understanding.I also think that the first article is really strong and reliable source since it is an official interview with Nina Dobrev where she personally states that she is proud of being Bulgarian.I think that if we write in her wikipage only canadian this would be extremely biased and one-sided. --Dvrt09 (talk) 15:45, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

"Everyone who knows me knows I am Bulgarian and that I am proud of it!"-Nina Dobrev for Sofia News Agency(www.novinite.com): http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=122426 --Dvrt09 (talk) 15:55, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Not done: {{edit semi-protected}} is not required for edits to semi-protected, unprotected pages, or pending changes protected pages. Protection has expired, so I'm closing the edit request itself. Please continue to work toward WP:CONSENSUS on these discussions and keep the WP:BLP policy in mind! Thanks, --ElHef (Meep?) 01:40, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Since I proved my point at the BLP noticeboard I will add here my main arguments and sources:"Saying "she is Bulgarian" -- using a source where she says "I am Bulgarian" -- is not prohibited WP:OR."Everyone who knows me knows I am Bulgarian and that I am proud of it!"-Nina Dobrev for Sofia News Agency(www.novinite.com): http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=122426 Nina became famous with "The Vampire Diaries" show where she plays the role of Katherine Pierce who was chosen to be a Bulgarian lady because of Nina's ethnicity http://xfinity.comcast.net/blogs/tv/2011/03/03/vampire-diaries-nina-dobrev-sinks-her-teeth-into-dual-role/ .Nina is notable for playing the role of "the only Bulgarian character on American television(Katherine Pierce)".Her ethnicity is quite relevant to her career and notability which means that WP:MOSBIO is satisfied." Also I would like to remind that: "Editing from a neutral point of view (NPOV) means representing fairly, proportionately, and as far as possible without bias, all significant views that have been published by reliable sources...NPOV is a fundamental principle of Wikipedia and of other Wikimedia projects. This policy is nonnegotiable and all editors and articles must follow it."The source used as a reference in the opening paragraph of Nina's wiki page is Crissy Calhoun's book "Love You To Death: The Unofficial Companion to The Vampire Diaries".Well one of the sources used in Crissy Calhoun's book, is indeed Sara Bibel from xfinity.comcast.net .If Sara Bibel is not good enough then you should discard Crissy Calhoun as well since she uses Sara's articles as reliable sources.Besides exactly this article(http://xfinity.comcast.net/blogs/tv/2011/03/03/vampire-diaries-nina-dobrev-sinks-her-teeth-into-dual-role/) is used as a source in Crissy Calhoun's book "Love You to Death - Season 2: The Unofficial Companion to The Vampire Diaries":http://books.google.bg/books?id=NqAcT09XJhUC&pg=PT393&dq=Sara+Bibel%2Bcomcast&hl=bg&sa=X&ei=Z-mDUa2DGM_OsgbgmoHwAg&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAA If my source is good enough for Crissy Calhoun's book then I don't see a logical reason why it wouldn't be good enough for wikipedia which uses Crissy Calhoun's books as reliable sources in BLP articles.Also xfinity.comcast.net is not a no name,personal or a fan site; it belongs to Comcast Corporation-owner of NBCUniversal which makes the content published there more likely to be true.My source is stronger then 90% of the sources used in BLP articles and the fact that it is also published in a book speaks well enough for itself."Born in Bulgaria" does NOT equal Bulgarian(ethnicity) since there are other ethnic groups who are born and live there(armenians,russians etc.).Refusing to write in the article that she is also Bulgarian(ethnicity) despite all the sources and Nina's own words is nothing more than misleading the readers intentionally. --Dvrt09 (talk) 10:27, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

You "proved" nothing at BLP/N -- other than to harm your own position. I think you should read what others wrote there. Cheers. Collect (talk) 12:20, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Then why are you not addressing my main arguments and sources there?!Maybe because I proved that my sources are reliable enough or maybe because you were too busy attacking me personally?!The fact that some editors need to use false accusations to get rid of me speaks well enough for itself.Too bad that the false accusations failed...Anyway it is not important for me whether this article will be changed or not.What is important for me is that I exposed the fact that you can find everything in wikipedia but not neutral point of view.It is not surprising why wikipedia is notorious for being highly unreliable.Besides I have better things to do and I will not argue with people who don't respect even their own rules... --Dvrt09 (talk) 13:21, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

The article has been changed, and now accurately reflects exactly what the sources you provided verify--that she is, at least, Bulgarian by birth. You have not provided a source verifying that she has Bulgarian citizenship. Now, you may not like our rules, but don't claim we're not following them. Qwyrxian (talk) 00:45, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

The article is NOT changed.Where is "Bulgarian by birth" and where are my sources?!I never said that I don't like the rules, I said that some editors are above the rules and don't respect them!My version of Nina's wiki page was in accordance with WP:OR, WP:MOSBIO and WP:OPENPARA.According to WP:OPENPARA "Ethnicity can be emphasized in the opening if it is relevant to the subject's notability."Nina is notable for playing the role of "the only Bulgarian character on American television(Katherine Pierce)" which shows that her ethnicity is relevant to her career as an actress.My source is published in Crissy Calhoun's book.According to all necessary wiki rules I am right.It is a fact that some editors disrespect the rules only to push their Canadian POV.I am NOT the one who is deleting sourced information which is in accordance with WP:MOSBIO... --Dvrt09 (talk) 09:28, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

The very first sentence says "born in Bulgaria". The first sentence of "Early Life" repeats that and expands on it. The fact that one fan-book happens to mention the fact is not enough to establish that it is relevant to her career as an actress. Books like that don't always even qualify as reliable sources, much less for the very high standard required by WP:BLP. The consensus here is clear. And consensus does not always go the way you like. For instance, I was just on the "losing side" of a debate about how BLP and N interact with NOTNEWS; I believed, and still believe, that we have absolutely no business having WP articles on 99.99% of breaking news stories, especially crime stories, while the story is still ongoing. But consensus was against me. And so, I just walk away from that article and move on with my life. Do I still think they 90+% who weighed in against me were wrong? Sure. But not enough to try to follow through with further dispute resolution. If you want to do that here, go ahead and do so; I'll participate in a DRN discussion, mediation, whatever. But I don't see a reason to continue the debate here. Qwyrxian (talk) 09:38, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

"The very first sentence says "born in Bulgaria"."

-"Born in Bulgaria" does NOT equal Bulgarian(ethnicity) since there are other ethnic groups who are born and live there-armenians,russians and they don't identify themselves as bulgarians.

"Books like that don't always even qualify as reliable sources."

-In this case obviously it does qualify since it is used as a reference for the opening paragraph.This is double standard.

"The consensus here is clear. And consensus does not always go the way you like."

-WP:NPOV:"NPOV is a fundamental principle of Wikipedia and of other Wikimedia projects. This policy is nonnegotiable and all editors and articles must follow it." "The principles upon which this policy is based cannot be superseded by other policies or guidelines, or by editors' consensus."

It is not about the article.It is about the fact that obviously the wiki rules do not matter.Do you admit that "consensus" is above the rules and the fundamental principle of Wikipedia-NPOV?!If this is the case then I will not waste my time anymore here... --Dvrt09 (talk) 10:27, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Like most debates on WP, the question is, how do WP:NPOV and WP:BLP and WP:MOS apply here? You think they apply one way. Consensus is that they apply a different way. Does consensus trump NPOV? No, of course not. How do we determine what is NPOV? By consensus. Qwyrxian (talk) 10:31, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

So you are admitting that consensus is above NPOV since it determines what NPOV is. WP:NPOV:"Editing from a neutral point of view (NPOV) means representing fairly, proportionately, and as far as possible without bias, all significant views that have been published by reliable sources."This article do NOT represent "all significant views that have been published by reliable sources".Also you didn't said nothing about the fact that Crissy Calhoun's book is used as a reliable source in the opening paragraph but my source is discarded.What about the double standard here?! --Dvrt09 (talk) 11:05, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

So, yes, I see that it seems to have been judged to be a reliable source. That's dubious to me, but I don't feel like taking it to RSN to discuss it. So, fine, it's reliable. But one book making a single claim in a single sentence is not enough to meet the "is relevant to the subject's notability". Nor, in fact, is it important enough to meet WP:NPOV, specifically WP:DUE. By putting her ethnicity in the opening line, when all you have is a single sentence in a single "unauthorized" book, you're overemphasizing her ethnicity in her overall encyclopedic story.

Back to consensus/NPOV--try to think a minute about what you're saying. What would you suggest we do when people discuss something, and they disagree about what is NPOV? You think your version is NPOV, I, and many others, think the current version is NPOV. How would we resolve such discussions if not through consensus? Why does your interpretation automatically meet NPOV and ours does not? Qwyrxian (talk) 12:17, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

My version do not censor or hide information from the readers.My version represent "all significant views" including Nina's own words.Readers like me do not want censorship, we want to recieve as much information as we can get about a person or other subject.This kind of attitude will only lead to more edit wars, requests and complaints from other people after me.I am sure that when you search in the web about a subject you are intersted in you want to find as much information as you can get, not someone else to decide what is important for you to read and what is not.A lot of her fans want to know why Katherine Pierce is Bulgarian in the show and not German like it is in the books.Can they find this information in wikipedia?!No. Why?!Because it is censored and hidden... --Dvrt09 (talk) 13:59, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

You also didn't said nothing about the fact that "Born in Bulgaria" does NOT equal Bulgarian(ethnicity) and why it is NOT mentioned even once in the entire article that she is Bulgarian.I don't accept that hiding and manipulating information is in "good faith". --Dvrt09 (talk) 16:09, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

WP:DUE is about different viewpoints about the same subject for example whether the earth is flat or not.The statement "Katherine became the only Bulgarian character on American television." is the only published viewpoint which makes it directly the majority since there are no other published sources which represent other viewpoints about this subject.Half of the information that is currently in the opening paragraph is "a single sentence in a single "unauthorized" book"-according to you this means that we should remove it... --Dvrt09 (talk) 16:57, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

If I use your criteria then according to WP:DUE calling her nationality canadian is undue because the majority of sources refer to her only as bulgarian-canadian, bulgarian or canadian; NOT as canadian citizen or of canadian nationality.This means that we should also remove canadian from the opening paragraph and the infobox since it represent only the minority views.Besides as you said before "She is notable as an actress"And I will paraphrase and use some of your arguments.She is not a Canadian freedom fighter, a leader of a prominent Canadian civil rights groups, etc.Nor is she regularly labelled as the first Canadian to do X. --Dvrt09 (talk) 20:29, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Feel free to escalate this to some form of dispute resolution. I believe that I or others have adequately answered all of these points already. You repeating your arguments is not going to get me to come around, since I believe that WP policies say and imply that we should only include ethnicity in the lead when it is extremely relevant to their notability, something which, almost by definition, cannot be met by someone who is notable for being an actor, with possible rare circumstances which I can't actually imagine right now. Since you've now moved on to claiming "censorship", which has literally no meaning here (neither you nor I have free speech rights on WP, since it's a privately owned website), I'm done with this discussion unless you want to move to some more formal venue. Qwyrxian (talk) 21:35, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Well I already said what I have to say.The fact that you can't answer the question why my source is discarded when half of the information that is currently in the opening paragraph is "a single sentence in a single "unauthorized" book" like you said, shows that there is double standard.Crissy Calhoun's book is a reliable source when suit us,but when doesn't suit us suddenly it became ""unauthorized" book"-just no comment.What MOSBIO says about ethnicity is only about the opening paragraph not the entire article.You have absolutely no excuses why it is not mentioned even once in the entire article that she is Bulgarian despite the sources and Nina's own words.I am done here since I proved that there is no neutral point of view in this article... --Dvrt09 (talk) 08:53, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

If a human, who was born in Bulgaria, and who's name is Nikolina Konstantinova Dobreva is Canadian mean that Canada is bulgarian province or Bulgaria is canadian state. Or somebody is in conflict with Geography. Please, change "Canadian" to "Bulgarian Canadian". English Wikipedia is only one of Wikipedias, where Bulgarians and Bulgarian Canadians are just "Canadians". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.118.193.185 (talk) 19:13, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Bulgarian nationality and citizenship

According to the Constitution of the Republic of Bulgaria (Art.25,(1)(3))and the Law on Citizenship of the Republic of Bulgaria adopted by the National Assembly of the Republic of Bulgaria citizen born in Bulgaria or having at least one parent with Bulgarian nationality having a citizenship until they renounce their citizenship. Citizenship may be lost if the person having a different from Bulgarian origin and acquired citizenship of the country of its origin which is. In the case of citizen Nina Dobrev was born as Nikolina Dobrev Sofia, she has Bulgarian citizenship guaranteed by the Constitution of the Republic of Bulgaria, as a person born on the territory of Bulgaria and parents with proven Bulgarian origin and Bulgarian citizens, until you withdraw it at own free will. Since then settling in Canada and it acquired Canadian citizenship properly would be to indicate both. I made ​​the change of nationality in infobox and added Bulgarian because those arguments here.

[7] - Constitution of The Republic of Bulgaria. "Art. 5. (1) The Constitution shall be the supreme law, and no other law shall contravene it." "Art. 25. (1) A Bulgarian citizen shall be anyone born of at least one parent holding a Bulgarian citizenship, or born on the territory of the Republic of Bulgaria. (3) No one shall be deprived of Bulgarian citizenship acquired by birth." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sumatro (talk • contribs) 21:10, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

We don't know if she retained her citizenship, which requires evidence. Does Canada allow duel citizenship? Are there any benefits to Canadians for keeping a single citizenship? Per Wikipedia rules, you cannot make legal arguments to say what must be true in fact, because that's called [[WP:OR]|original research. Unless you can provide a source that explicitly states that she is a Bulgarian citizen, it cannot be added to the article, so I am reverting your edits. Qwyrxian (talk) 22:04, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

What more reliable source of the constitution? After she was born in Bulgaria, so she has Bulgarian citizenship. Sorry, but your arguments are absolutely meaningless. By law, you must prove that he has abandoned his Bulgarian citizenship and has only a Canadian. What you do not like the fact that Nina Dobrev is Bulgarian? In the absence of your arguments I think the discussion is now purely political. This type of site is the result of the mood of national hatred, and falsification of historical facts, which is generally illegal and contrary to the rules of Wikipedia and violates the rights of viewers to receive credible information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sumatro (talk • contribs) 05:27, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

No, you are the one who doesn't understand. You are reading and interpreting the law and applying it to the situation of a specific person. This is in violation of the rules of Wikipedia; please read WP:OR. And trust me, this has nothing to do with "national hatred"--I don't know enough about Bulgaria to hate it. Furthermore, nationalism of any sort is probably the last thing I've ever been accused of. So, please provide a source which states that Nina Dobrev is a citizen of Bulgaria. Absent such a source, I don't think we can include the claim that she is. Finally, please do be careful not to claim that editors acting on Wikipedia are doing anything "illegal", as this can be interpreted as a legal threat, which always result in blocks per WP:NLT. I don't think that's what you meant here, but I just don't want you to be blocked unexpectedly. Qwyrxian (talk) 06:17, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

I do not blame the editors. I critisize the information they publish, because it is false. I do not know of the supreme law of the constitution. I do not know who is this source, which you have trusted. There's just a false information and despite all my arguments (including the Constitution) you reply me that can not be changed. I do not think that deception is the rule of Wikipedia, any links to point me. I do not care who you love and who you hate. You're free to hate and love who you want. This information is incorrect. And as keep misinformation, despite all the only explanation seems to me that the article is hostage to one's national interests and loses its neutrality. I apologize if anyone was offended! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sumatro (talk • contribs) 06:54, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

We also need to create another row "citizenship" where to write Bulgarian and Canadian. Against "nationality" should write Bulgarian, because she is from Bulgaria and her parents are Bulgarians. Obviously, the some of editors here make no distinction between nationality and citizenship, which is another reason to change the information in infobox.

Please show me any evidence that she is from Canadian nationality (not a Canadian citizenship),if you think that this information should be retained. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sumatro (talk • contribs) 09:24, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Um...nationality and citizenship almost always mean the same thing. Except for very few exceptions (see Nationality#Nationality and citizenship), being a national of a state is the same thing as being a citizen of that state. In all honesty, until I looked at that other page, I would have said they mean exactly the same thing, because they are almost always used interchangeably. In this particular case, I don't see any distinction between the two. Qwyrxian (talk) 11:19, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Now I noticed that you are from the U.S., which explains the mixing of the two concepts. Obviously, in the U.S. and in Europe are various explanations. In Europe, the concept of nation is much more comprehensive. In the United States there is no difference because there are many nations in one country. Nations are communities of people united by a common history, culture, traditions and language associated with a particular location (country, area). For example: If I was born in Greece, and my parents are Greek and I was emigrated to Australia can gain Australian citizenship as I get a passport, but do I have Greek nationality. By Australian nationality can only be my children, who were born in Australia. In this case they will be Greek-Australians. It is better to know some things. For example, saying that you know nothing about Bulgaria, but argue about who has Bulgarian nationality and who is not. Please, before a dispute, read something about the history of Bulgaria, read about the birth of the nation in the Balkans and the rest of Europe. Did you know that Bulgarians are one of the first nations in the world? Did you know when a group of people called the nation? Who invented the concept of a nation? Do not wonder if you meet harsh comments because this is a sensitive subject and you have to be careful. If there's one thing I dislike, it is a dispute, led by people who know nothing about the subject they are talking about, but are considered to be professionals. Look for information about the topic, read a books, visit a library ... Bulgaria has over 1400 years of history, there you will find something useful to you for this article. Examine the rules on citizenship of that country. I see in the history of the article that a lot of people are changed "Canadian" nationality to "Bulgarian". Did not you ask the question "why". From simple vandalism or because there is an error in the article? Read before you fix! That's my advice. Sorry, if I offended you with something! - Sumatro (talk) 15.20, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

All of this stuff about the history of Bulgaria is absolutely irrelevant, and implies to me that your goal here has to do much more with the glorification of a country than in the creation of a neutral Wikipedia article. The way you are using the word "nationality" is simply wrong. A citizen of a country is, by definition, always a national of that country. In very rare cases, a person may be a national of a country but not a citizen. That is, "citizen" is always a subset of "national". Maybe you have an idiosyncratic definition of the word, but it is not the mainstream definition. I think what you're trying to talk about is what on Wikipedia is called "ethnicity", or, as this article already asserts "descent". We know for a fact that she's a Canadian citizen/national of Bulgarian descent. We also believe that she's probably a Bulgarian citizen/national, but, unfortunately, Wikipedia rules on biographies of living people are extra strict, and, as such, we can't accept a "probably". Unless we have an explicit statement that she continues to hold Bulgarian citizenship, we need to leave it out. And finally, please be careful in how you characterize what I said. I said I know almost nothing about Bulgaria. However, what I do know quite a lot about is Wikipedia policies, as well as the English language. On both of these points, your argument is lacking. Qwyrxian (talk) 13:37, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Give me the proof that she's Canadian! You say that The Constitution is "probably"? Is there any greater proof of the constitution of an independent state? I don't think so. I told you that you think like american. Citizenship, nationality, ethnicity and descent are 4 different things. The explanation that I glorify Bulgaria is very funny. What glory would bring to Bulgaria the fact that one Bulgarian actress is Bulgarian actress? My goal is not to "glorify" Bulgaria. My goal is to "glorify" the truth. And... please, read before you comment! :) - Sumatro (talk) 16.22, 4 September 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.118.193.163 (talk)

I'm sick! I'm from Sofia and I know the family of Nina Dobrev. She is Bulgarian. You don't need a constitution or biographies of living people to prove it. It takes just a 2 facts: 1. Her name is Nina Dobrev, proving that she is Bulgarian. If she were a Canadian her name must be Nicole Goods. But she is Nina Dobrev. Dobrev is bulgarian family, if you don't know. 2. She was born in Bulgaria and her parents are Bulgarians. I want to ask why in all Wikipedias she is a Bulgarian-Canadian, only in English she is Canadian? I'm Bulgarian, like Nina Dobrev and I think that your repudiation by Bulgarian nationality of my countrymen like insult against me. Canada is a beautiful country in which are born many great people. No need to steal Bulgarians and to considers them as Canadians. It's not honestly. Why people who never heard about Bulgaria write the biography of Bulgarian? Why the page cannot be editing? Can somebody answered? Petar Petrov.

I'm done with this conversation. If you're not willing to learn Wikipedia rules, there's nothing I can do to help. No, the Constitution is not proof in any way, because I'm fairly certain that the Constitution does not mention the words "Nina Dobrev". And the IP's comments about names are just laughable--people don't (usually) change their name when they change their citizenship.

Look, I really do sympathize--I really think it is very likely that Dobrev still has Bulgarian citizenship. But we just have to be certain to put it here. Qwyrxian (talk) 22:02, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Qwyrxian, please, read carefully: "Art. 25. (1) A Bulgarian citizen shall be anyone born of at least one parent holding a Bulgarian citizenship, or born on the territory of the Republic of Bulgaria." Nina Dobrev was born in SOFIA. SOFIA is the capital of BULGARIA. NINA DOBREV WAS BORN IN BULGARIA. NINA DOBREV IS BULGARIAN CITIZEN. The Constitution says: "anyone born of at least one parent holding a Bulgarian citizenship, or born on the territory of the Republic of Bulgaria.".

About the names: Do you ask the question why the birth name of Nina Dobrev is Николина Константинова Добрева, and why her name is written on Cyrillic? May be Canada is Slavic country? :) May be Clement of Ohrid was committed unknown about the science crossing the Atlantic ocean to spreading Bulgarian alphabet in Canada? :) No. Her birth name is on Cyrillic, because she is Bulgarian. The Cyrillic alphabet was created in Bulgaria in the 9th century and today is the official alphabet in Bulgaria. Do you remember what we talking about the nation? This is second reason to change nationality from Canadian to Bulgarian. Create a new row in infobox - "citizenship", when to write "Bulgarian, Canadian", because she has double citizenship. And please, for the fourth time, show me the proof that she is Canadian! PLEASE! Only one proof. Only one reliable source, which to prove that she is from Canadian nationality! Thank you in advance! - Sumatro (talk) 07.40, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

What is this rule in Wikipedia, which making Bulgarians to Canadians? I want to show some articles and to explain me: http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun - German scientist, with american citizenship. Look the nationality - German, American. http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Marie_Curie - this is interesting case, because exist the word "citizenship" - Poland and France. http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Elena_Paparizou - She was born in Sweden, but her parents are Greek and she is Greek-Swedish, not only Swedish. And over picture were posting her name on Latin and Greek alphabet. Why over picture of Nina Dobrev has not inscription on Cyrillic? For 30 minuts I found 67 such articles. If you want, I will quote all of them. This is only one article (I don't found other) in Wikipedia, when bulgarian citizen, born in Bulgaria, who's parents are Bulgarians is only... Canadian. Why? Do you can explain me? Why Wikipedia's rules respect the nationality of German, Polish, French, Greek and other immigrants and do not respect the nationality of Bulgarians? Who breaking the rules of Wikipedia - you, the editors of this article or editors of other articles? Did you know that the denial of nationality is humiliation about the person and the nation? If the editors here hate Nina Dobrev and Bulgaria, please, don't carry your hatred in article! I often using Wikipedia about information and I want to get a credible information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.203.216.79 (talk) 13:18, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

I added a name on Cyrillic - Sumatro (talk) 07.51, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

http://www.yatedo.com/p/Nina+Dobrev/famous/d65a126c0a3b55b7d5db8d7fdebc5263 - Sumatro (talk) 07.54, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

I think that the problem of this article is here - [8]. It breaking the neutrality of article. But The Constitution of Bulgaria is official document and it's 100% reliable source, include according to the rules of Wikipedia, like document - [9]. Art.25 (1) from The Constitution include all the people, born in Bulgaria (include Nina Dobrev, because she was born in Bulgaria). Sorry, Qwyrxian, but I don't see a reason to keeping "Only Canadian" nationality. She is Bulgarian and Canadian. I saw that in Wikipedias in all languages Nina Dobrev is Bulgarian - Canadian, only in English Wikipedia she is Canadian. From where you get the information that she is only Canadian? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.203.216.79 (talk) 15:56, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Qwyrxian has explained the situation very clearly and thoroughly. But I'll give it a shot.

1. The Bulgarian constitution does not mention Dobrev by name. Instead you are reading the constitution, adding in facts you know about Dobrev, and then drawing a conclusion. This is the very definition of "original research" which goes against Wikipedia policy. Please click this link to learn more about it.

2. It does not matter what the other language Wikis do. They have their own policies and guidelines. English Wikipedia has its own.

3. Also read WP:OPENPARA which tells us specifically that we should only list the country she is part of when she became notable. That country is Canada. Specifically note this part "Similarly, previous nationalities or the country of birth should not be mentioned in the opening sentence unless they are relevant to the subject's notability." Being born in Bulgaria (and even if she is still a citizen of Bulgaria) has absolutely nothing to do with her notability. She became notable only because of the work she did once she was in Canada. SQGibbon (talk) 16:54, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

SQGibbon, sorry, but for the first time I've heard about the nationality by notability. I don't know what the Canadians think about the concept "nationality", but I am historian, I was studied History in Sofia and Berlin, and the conception of nationality in Europe is too different. For example: when the person was born in Germany, he/she is from German nationality (by birth). Also like the examples with Wernher von Braun - [10], Marie Curie - [11] and Elena Paparizou - [12], by user 88.203.216.79. I don't want to judge before, but as historian I think that I'm right. Look the conception of Dual Nationality - [13]. I'am very surprise after your explanation. :) - Sumatro (talk) 20.23, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

1. You still haven't dealt with the issue of original research.

2. There are over 4 million articles on Wikipedia. Of those 4 million articles 4 million of them have problems. I have not looked at the articles you mentioned but the fact that they might be running afoul of Wikipedia policies and guidelines not only does not surprise me but it's irrelevant. Just because some articles aren't perfect does not mean we aren't going to try to fix the problems other articles have.

3. English is my native language. I speak if fluently. English is clearly not your native language, though you speak it well. In English "nationality" in almost all cases refers to one's citizenship. In many cases one's citizenship is the same as that person's country of origin but when that is not the case, nationality still refers to citizenship. I understand that when "nationality" gets translated into other languages it often gains a slightly different connotation that no longer matches perfectly what it means in English. Here's a link to a blog post from a professional linguist who deals with a similar misunderstanding. It is not exactly the same thing as I believe is going on here but hopefully it is similar enough to illuminate the way to your misunderstanding.

4. WP:OPENPARA still applies. That you haven't heard of it is, of course, irrelevant. She attained notability while a Canadian therefore that is the only thing that gets mentioned in the opening paragraph. SQGibbon (talk) 20:47, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

I want to offer a decision. I know that in the most part of English-speaker's world nationality and citizenship are synonyms. I understand, that according to WP:OPENPARA nationality is by notability. But the English Wikipedia is reading not only by peoples from Canada, United States and Australia. Many viewers with other mother's language also reading the articles here or using information from here and because they don't know about "nationality by nobility" or because in their countries exist a different conotations of nationality is happen mistakes. The user may to getting a wrong information or thinking that is manipulated information. This could be undermine the reputation of Wikipedia. My offer is to keep the nationality "Canadian" and to add "Bulgarian (by birth)". The row in infobox to seems like this:

"| nationality = Canadian, Bulgarian (by birth)" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.203.216.79 (talk) 22:03, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Nationality by notability is very strange concept. WP:OPENPARA is also too strange. I think that about this rule must beginning a discussion, because we talking about living people and that difference can make a problems. Sometimes the nationality can be a sensitive subject. But "Bulgarian (by birth)" is good idea. I agree.

• As has been pointed out several times, nationality does not generally refer to place of birth in English. Adding place of birth to the "nationality" entry of the infobox blatantly goes against the whole point of infoboxes. There is already a spot for birth place and that's where the information concerning her birth belongs. It is entirely inappropriate to try to shoehorn additional information into places it does not belong. SQGibbon (talk) 21:10, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

The question is not about the place of birth. Just exist a different types of nationalities. In English language also exist the concept Dual Nationality by this article of English Wikipedia - [14]. I think that the notability's nationality refers to Canada, USA, Australia and New Zealand, because these are countries, created by settlers from many places. May be in Great Britain and rest Engish speaker's world the rules are others? It doesn't matter. Obviously existing a other point of view, different by showen in Infobox in article. I want to adding this point of view with a note, by idea of User:88.203.216.79, because the users, who understand the concept "nationality" by other way are also getting a correct information. - Sumatro (talk) 23.08, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Nina Dobrev
Николина Константинова Добрева
Nina Dobrev at the 2010 Paley Center for Media.
Born	Nikolina Konstantinova Dobreva (1989-01-09) 9 January 1989 Sofia, People's Republic of Bulgaria
Nationality	Canadian, Bulgarian (by birth)
Occupation(s)	Actress, model
Years active	2006–present
Website	www.ninadobrev.com

And seems perfect by me. Greetings! - Sumatro (talk) 21.22, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

You are welcome to start a discussion on Template talk:Infobox person to attempt to get this change, but that is not what the parameter is for, and you can't just override that here. And you can say whatever you want about your idiosyncratic definition of "nationality", but it's not what sources say, and it's not what dictionaries say. So, I don't see any more to do here. Qwyrxian (talk) 02:47, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

You can adding some note after "nationality", that existing other point of view. Or may be can adding a new row "ethnicity: Bulgarian" according to Template:Infobox person, so as to understand by users, who don't know about Canadian and American version of nationality and because of that reason getting a wrong information. In this case Infobox will seems like this:

Nina Dobrev
Николина Константинова Добрева
Nina Dobrev at the 2010 Paley Center for Media.
Born	Nikolina Konstantinova Dobreva (1989-01-09) 9 January 1989 Sofia, People's Republic of Bulgaria
Nationality	Canadian
Occupation(s)	Actress, model
Years active	2006–present
Website	www.ninadobrev.com

Early life - errors everywhere

Another error: "her father, Nikolai Dobrev". If the name of father is Nikolay Dobrev (Nikolai is not correct - [15]) her name must be Nikolina Nikolova Dobreva - [16]. If her surname is "Konstantinova", the name of her father is Konstantin Dobrev. JanHusCz (talk) 17:41, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Ocean of errors in Infobox

Dear colleagues, Sorry about the words, but The Infobox in this article is full chaos of errors. May be users must be learning some facts about the persons, laws and countries, for which editing. I saw that another users are nomerated the reasons, and I follow their way:

1. "People's republic of Bulgaria" is political name, not a geographical. The viewers want to learn where the person was born, not which is government in this time. If a person was born in USA in 1998, he was born in United States, not in "United States of the time of Bill Clinton", right?

2. By The Bulgarian nationality law [17], and The Nationality law of European Union, person who was born in the country (Bulgaria) or by bulgarian parents is bulgarian by nationality EVERYWHERE IN THE WORLD. Nowhere in Wikipedia have a rule, which ignoring the nationality by birth, and by descent. The nationality depends by the law of every country - [18]. The ignoring of nationality by law of one person by political or another reasons is a crime.

3. The users in Talk page are presenting many reliable sources [19] and I change information in Infobox. - JanHusCz (talk) 17:20, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

If you want learning more information about this case, you may also look at this - [20] - JanHusCz (talk) 17:24, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Please see the section above, which clearly outlines Wikipedia's policies in this regard. Qwyrxian (talk) 23:39, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Personal life removal

@ Qwyrxian "Trivia; the fact that she trained for it is all we need to know, which is already stated." What exactly is that mean? Aren't her relationships part of her personal life? I didn't see any mention in the article...? Why not add it to the article since there are sources about it? TeamGale 21:39, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, my mistake; that edit summary should have gone with the edit summary I just added, which was about her wanting all her life to be a rhythmic gymnast or something like that.

That being said, your sectino should also be deleted. Is it a part of her personal life? Sure. Does it belong in an encyclopedia article? Absolutely not. We're not a gossip rag. Should she be in a long term relationship that is a fundamental part of her life, should she get married, or should she have children, then that type of relationship belongs. But we are not supposed to report one who someone is or isn't dating. That belongs in tabloids and entertainment TV. Qwyrxian (talk) 21:53, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

OK, I understand. I was just wondering since I've seen in many articles such kind of info that looked like "gossip" and the explanation of removal was not exactly helpful. I won't add anything back, just wanted to help with the article. But her relationship with Somerhalder lasted 3 years, at least this one should be considered long term relationship in my opinion but I guess that's not objective. Thanks for answering. TeamGale 22:00, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Nina Dobrev is Bulgarian actress, who raised in Canada

She is not Canadian actress. She is Bulgarian by nationality and ethnicity and just was lived in Canada. See this project of DW, which I was quote before time - http://www.dw.de/flashcms/beruehmtebulgaren/bg/bg_beruehmtebulgaren_popup.htm - 21 Famous People of Bulgarian nationality outside Bulgaria (12-13, Nina Dobrev; pic.№20), international project of Deutsche Welle, section: Bulgaria, DW Bulgarien, authors: Yordanka Yordanova, Maria Ilcheva, Dariya Popova - Witsel - DW international projects, © 2012 DEUTSCHE WELLE — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.203.216.79 (talk) 19:34, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Last name

How do you pronounce her last name? is this how you pronounce it? "Do-breve", "Do-breave", "Do-brev", how do you pronounce it? [[  Demon Hunter Rules ]] (talk) 23:08, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

She pronounces it like it rhymes with cobra. See here or here. dissolve^talk 00:38, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

So her last name uses the word "Dough" in the beginning? [[  Demon Hunter Rules ]] (talk) 17:03, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

It's a typical Bulgarian name. Bulgarians pronounce it ['do-bɾev]. The O is short and accented, pronounced much like the o in the English word "only". The E is short, not accented and pronounced like the e in "help". The R is pronounced like in Spanish, Italian, Russian, etc. The V in the end of the name tends to lose a bit of its sound, to the point that it sounds somewhere between V and F (note that Dobrev is the version of the name given to males. Dobreva is the version for females, where the V is fully pronounced, because it gets sounded by the following vowel A). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.86.82.106 (talk) 15:38, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Her actual birthname is Dobreva. Dobreva is a typical bulgarian name, she changed for her career. Here's a source: http://www.tv.com/people/nina-dobrev/ Please put that in the article that is important. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.178.184.93 (talk) 15:23, 4 February 2012 (UTC) Besides, every other Wikipedia page in a different language says that her birthname is Dobreva. Please put that in! That is improtant information!

Then provide a reliable source. Tv.com is not, as it's also user submitted content. Qwyrxian (talk) 02:54, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Dobreva is correct, because she is woman. Dobrev is male name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.203.216.79 (talk) 19:57, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Something about Bulgaria, Canada and one Bulgarian girl in Canada

Hallo, dear Wikipedians! I see that here are many discussions about the nationality of Nina Dobrev. I want to to draw your attention by some facts: 1. Please change "Canadian actress" to "Bulgarian - Canadian actress". Nina Dobrev was born in Bulgaria and like every Bulgarian - born person she has Bulgarian citizenship. Her parents are also Bulgarians. If you think that she hasn't Bulgarian nationality (I don't see logical reason to think so) her Bulgarian descent is 100% sure (because her parents are Bulgarians). 2. I don't see a logic to present only Canadian version of nationality and to ignore the Law of other countries (Bulgaria - in this case). "The Big Rule" in all encyclopedias, include Wikipedia is neutrality point of view. In "Edit request on 2 April 2013" and "Bulgarian nationality and citizenship" are presenting many proofs and reliable sources (include Constitutions!) by Bulgarian nationality and descent of Nina, but I don't understand why some editors ignore this facts. It's not fairly. 3. May be will mean strange by Qwyrxian, but the correct is "Bulgarian actress, who raised in Canada". Thank you for attention! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.24.37.106 (talk) 15:36, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Yes, by The Law she is with twice citizenship - Bulgarian by Bulgarian Law and Canadian by Canadian. I think that adding. JanHusCz (talk) 17:47, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

• Let's try this again. The only thing that matters in this discussion are the policies and guidelines of Wikipedia. The personal opinions of editors do not matter. The constitutions of other countries do no matter. Please read WP:OPENPARA for yourself, but here are the relevant bits:

The opening paragraph should have: ... Context (location, nationality, or ethnicity);

1) In most modern-day cases this will mean the country of which the person is a citizen, national or permanent resident, or if notable mainly for past events, the country where the person was a citizen, national or permanent resident when the person became notable.

2) Ethnicity or sexuality should not generally be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability. Similarly, previous nationalities or the country of birth should not be mentioned in the opening sentence unless they are relevant to the subject's notability. (emph. added)

Take point 1. Dobrev became notable while a citizen of Canada and not Bulgaria. Therefore we list Canada. Take point 2. It states specifically that we should not mention previous nationalities or country of birth unless they are related to her notability. That she was born in Bulgaria is not related to her notability. Therefore it should not be mentioned. All the relevant policies and guidelines dictate mentioning only Canada and none of them support adding Bulgaria. This is very simple and basic Wikipedia editing. If you do not like it or agree with it then work to get the guideline changed. In the meantime none of you gets to set the rules for how Wikipedia operates, you do not own Wikipedia or this article. You are editors like the rest of us and have to follow the same policies and guidelines we do. SQGibbon (talk) 17:51, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

And because we playing to the rules, we must present correct information. "the country of which the person is a citizen" - these countries are Bulgaria and Canada. And she became notable while a sitizen of Bulgaria and Canada, not only Canada. Read carefully! I don't understand what is the problem. The Cold war ended before 24 years. If you have some problem with the countries in Eastern Europe, it's your problem and can't bring your opinions in article about one actress, please! - JanHusCz (talk) 17:47, September 2013 (UTC)

JanHusCz, please provide a source that states that she is Bulgarian explicitly. If you wish to use the Constitution of Bulgaria, please provide the exact quotation that contains Nina Dobrev's name. If her name is not in the constitution, you may not use it as a source, because interpreting a primary document like a government law and applying it to a real case is original research, which we do not allow. Also note that if you revert again on the article you will be blocked for crossing WP:3RR. Qwyrxian (talk) 06:18, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

This is quote from the book of Anna - Maria Yordanova "From East to The West. 100 popular people from Eastern Europe in Western Europe and America", Publishing house "Orel", Sofia, 2012, page 132 - 135. In the book are published the biographies of 100 people from Eastern Europe (Russia, Poland, Bulgaria, Greece, Czech republic, Slovakia, Romania and Ukraine), include Nina Dobrev (p. 132 - 134) The Original version:

“ Любопитни факти

Нина Добрев

Име: Николина Добрева

Родена на: 9 януари 1989 г.

Място на раждане: София

Националност: Българка

Гражданство: Българско и канадско...

</ref>

” — От изток към Запад. 100 популярни източноевропейци в Западна Европа и Америка</ref> Анна - Мария Йорданова, Орел, 2012, София, с.132 - 134, Нина Добрев, една млада българска звезда в Холивуд

Translated to English, 2012:

“ Interesting facts

Nina Dobrev

Name: Nikolina Dobreva

Born: 9 January 1989

Place of birth: Sofia

Nationality: Bulgarian

Citizenship: Bulgarian and Canadian...

</ref>

” — "From East to The West. 100 popular people from Eastern Europe in Western Europe and America"</ref> Anna - Maria Yordanova, Orel, Sofia, 2012, p.132 - 134, "Nina Dobrev - One young Bulgarian star in Hollywood"

Nina Dobrev in Constitution of Bulgaria? Sorry, but do you crazy? Do you know what is Constitution? :) The Constitution prove that like every Bulgarian-born person she has Bulgarian citizenship. It's not a direct source, which to say "Nina Dobrev is Bulgarian". For this work the peoples was created biographies. Why nobody quoted some biography to now? - JanHusCz (talk) 16.11, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Finally. Finally a source we can consider using. My point on the Constitution is that of course it's not there, but you were trying to use it as evidence, which we cannot do. But this new source, if the book is reliable (and it might be) would be enough to include both citizenships. Let's see what others say. Qwyrxian (talk) 14:44, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Google gives me zero hits for this book. Anyone other than these Bulgarian editors who can confirm? I got this hit for the author. Seems like it is a harpist? Source looks dubious to me. Nymf (talk) 15:46, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Hmmm...I get nothing in Worldcat either, in either English or whatever language that is. JanHusCz, can you give us some sort of weblink to the publisher, to a review of the book, anything? While English would be easier, if it's not, that's fine; I just want something so that I can try to verify that this meets our reliable source guidelines. Qwyrxian (talk) 22:31, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

It has been nearly a week, and no reaction yet. We should probably consider restoring the status quo until (if) the source is properly verified. Nymf (talk) 17:55, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

OK, I changed it back to just Canadian. It's been a week + 2 days. SQGibbon (talk) 15:08, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Try in library. May be in some university, where learn Slavic philology. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.203.216.79 (talk) 20:02, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

If you notice above, I checked in Worldcat, which is a website that lists a very large number of libraries across the world, in many different languages. I searched for this book in both English and (by copying and pasting) the original language. The site returned zero hits, meaning that none of the libraries that WorldCat indexes has a copy of the book. Now, WorldCat isn't perfect (smaller libraries aren't included), but it finds absolutely none, and we can't find any other information about the book anywhere else, we need someone to provide some clear evidence of the book's reliability. Qwyrxian (talk) 22:10, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

I mean real library :) This book has it in the bookstore of Tzar Ivan Shishman str., if you can see and if you are from Sofia. On the cover has pictures of Vladimir Nabokov, Dimitar Berbatov, Tzvetan Todorov and others. Actually, in Worldcat are 8 - 9 % of world literature and if it's a new book, and I saw it is, you cannot found there, because of copyright. By publishing law of European Union circulation will be free in Internet after minimum 24 months, if the author want to make it. But if the question is just about the nationality, I was quote one reliable source, where is written that Nina Dobrev is Bulgarian by nationality. It is documentary project of Deutsche Welle - http://www.dw.de/flashcms/beruehmtebulgaren/bg/bg_beruehmtebulgaren_popup.htm - 21 Famous People of Bulgarian nationality outside Bulgaria (12-13, Nina Dobrev; pic.№20), international project of Deutsche Welle, section: Bulgaria, DW Bulgarien, authors: Yordanka Yordanova, Maria Ilcheva, Dariya Popova - Witsel - DW international projects, © 2012 DEUTSCHE WELLE — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.203.216.79 (talk) 14:41, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

We have all about the book. We have a second reliable source, which confim this information. I don't understand what is the problem. - JanHusCz (talk) 16.11, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Repo! The Genetic Opera?

Under Dobrev's filmography, it says she was in Repo! The Genetic Opera in 2006 as a teen Zydrate addict. Repo! came out in 2008 and I haven't found any information to verify that she was in it (it's not on her IMDb page or on the cast list for Repo!). That should be deleted. She is the best actress of our generation.

She could have been in the cast of the stage version of Repo! The Genetic Opera, because only this makes sense - the movie wasn't even out in 2006. Can anybody research this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.86.82.106 (talk) 12:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

The movie should be listed in the 2008 section and not as the first one in the list. It does´nt make sence when it starts with 2008 Repo and then continues with 2006. That should be changed! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.179.36.135 (talk) 15:53, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

There was a 2006 short film version of Repo The Genetic Opera. It was later redone into the 2008 movie version. Here is the IMDB address for the 2006 short version. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0945586/ It has her listed as a cast member playing the Teenage Zytrate Addict — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tikkiblue (talk • contribs) 08:20, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Filmography Date error

Under Filmography 2008 Repo! The Genetic Opera Role Teenage Zydrate Addict Should read 2006 Repo! The Genetic Opera Role Teenage Zydrate Addict

She was in the 2006 film short and not the full length feature film that was released in 2008.

Proof is located at http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0945586/ Tikkiblue (talk) 08:30, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Because imdb, like Wikipedia, is edited by anyone, it makes a poor reference. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 04:12, 13 November 2013 (UTC)