Talk:Niki Sanders

Jessica

"When Jessica surfaces, the transformation is instantaneous and almost unnoticeable..." I find the centre of Ali Larter's lip tends to rise slightly when she portrays Jessica. Is there any evidence for this? Is it just me? --82.152.177.208 (talk) 20:11, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Even if that is true, your wording proves a point. you say "when she portrays" the act of portraying is ongoing, meaning when she is currently Jessica. If what you are saying is correct (which I'm not sure if it is or isnt) it really doesn't matter. What matters si that there is no evidence of transformation while its happening, not after. Hahen Bougetsu (talk) 14:26, 16 july 2008 (UTC)

There is no contention that Ali Larter portrays the character "Jessica". She's an actress hired to act in a TV serial, she's obviously portraying. Heroes is, by definition, not real. As for the original suggestion, you can't honestly expect to have the slight repositioning of her lips as an indicator of her state of mind. You don't think Jessica could lower her lips if the need arose? The "Jessica" character has, at one time or another, fooled almost every character on the series, that's pretty fair evidence there's no physical difference. padillaH ^{(review me)}_{(help me)} 19:39, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I have noticed with many of my friends that Nikki's hair changed when she became Jessica. It is actually very noticeable if you pay attention. brkndrmr —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.70.153.156 (talk) 03:32, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Do we still need the Alternate Future sections?

I'd like to get rid of the alternate future sections. They are outdated and invalid since Peter stopped that version of the future from happening. Yes, I understand there are references to the future in the new season but to keep the information on the off chance that it will be related to something that might come up is the embodiment of WP:CRYSTAL. We need to purge these sections. padillaH ^{(review me)}_{(help me)} 13:28, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't think they need to be deleted, but perhaps moving them into the synopsis for Volume 1 would be better?--75.71.68.254 (talk) 22:56, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Is Jessica a twin?

An anon edit brought up a good point: is Jessica Nikki's twin or just a sister? I don't know if it's ever addressed in the show so I think it's just a sister. If I'm wrong please let me know. padillaH ^{(review me)}_{(help me)} 13:07, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't think she's a twin either, I don't remember them ever saying she was. It's in the main article, also, though. If it was mentioned, what episode and where was it mentioned that they were twins?~QuasiAbstract {talk/contrib} 13:52, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I can't find anywhere where it says that they are twins, so I'm removing the mention of it, unless someone has a reference. ~QuasiAbstract {talk/contrib} 13:13, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

If anyone wants to look at Marvel lore. Check out Multiple Man. Apply that concept to Niki/Tracy. I have a feeling that there's 'Niki-copies' EVERYWHERE. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.79.128.194 (talk) 05:44, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, there's nothing to say that if Niki is a clone that she's a duplicate like Multiple Man is. There's nothing to say that she's a clone. ~QuasiAbstract {talk/contrib} 22:57, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Was Tracy surprised at what she could do?

Can we ascertain that Tracy was surprized by what she had done to the reporter? She looked pretty well freaked out. Also, are we discussing Tracy here or have we created a new article? padillaH ^{(review me)}_{(help me)} 04:52, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Tracy's power

She didn't freeze the reporter, she transmuted him into ice. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 06:12, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Where is the reference for this distinction? ~QuasiAbstract {talk/contrib} 09:21, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Looked like freezing to me. He didn't turn transparent or anything. Wanderer32 (talk) 10:40, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

If she just froze him, the fragments of his shattered corpse would not have been white and would not have melted into something clear. I don't have any reference other than the episode itself. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 00:04, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Did you not see the blood when he shattered? Anonymous —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.104.172.194 (talk) 01:24, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

No, I didn't, the shards on the ground were nearly white, so I assumed the dark parts seen while he was falling apart were supposed to be shadows. However found some screenshots on heroeswiki.com, in this one the shards do look a bit pinkish, and in this one, the dark parts are clearly not shadows. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 04:26, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

The white frost on the fragments and the water on the ground could very well be due to condensation of the water vapor in the air. Wanderer32 (talk) 10:24, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks to Season 3, Episode 3, I think that we can confirm that her ability is in fact to freeze. When she tests her powers by freezing a rose, it clearly retains its previous colourings (albeit, covered in ice). One of the petals snap and you can clearly see the internal colouring.--203.208.115.30 (talk) 12:14, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Should Tracy get her own article?

As it is currently unknown whether Tracy is another alternate personality or a separate person who resembles Niki, should she get an article of her own? She's apparently got her own power, which a simple alternate personality wouldn't have, suggesting she's a different character (long lost twin sister, possibly?). It could be merged back in if it does turn out she's somehow Niki. Wanderer32 (talk) 07:40, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't think there's enough for her own article, but I think (until evidence proves otherwise) she should get her own section, until there's 1) Too much information for a short section or 2) It's revealed whether she's an extremely alternate personality (who knows if Niki could possibly have had multiple powers) or just someone who looks exactly like Niki. (I wonder why the reporter didn't go after in-universe Ali Larter as well...) ~QuasiAbstract {talk/contrib} 09:21, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

It's been stated on the show that nobody naturally has multiple powers. (Peter, Sylar, and now Mohinder got them by unnatural means). Some may have versatile powers that can be used in more than one way, like Hiro, the Haitian, and Ted, but I don't see how super strength and cryokinesis could be extensions of the same power. And the bit about an "in-universe Ali Larter" is likely just the Celebrity Paradox. Wanderer32 (talk) 10:51, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

OTOH, her power could be something like "manifests alternate personalities with new powers". Eoseth (talk) 07:11, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I still don't think there's enough information for a full article on Tracy, but I would support an addition of a section in the list of characters. It's hard to determine how the writers will "get around" things they've said (I've heard that Mohinder will "never" have a power, but now he has one, albeit unnaturally), Hiro + fake dino, etc. For all we know, they may stretch how far super strength can go and she can "force" molecules togethers, freezing it. Yes, a stretch, but the writers are obviously trying to create a connection, but leave enough ambiguity to say "Well, it's probably NOT her." Not to mention plot holes, also.

Basically, I think we should wait for a full article until the reasons I gave above. Let them tell us, in the show, in an interview. Saying it's her or saying it's not her, at this point, is speculation. ~QuasiAbstract {talk/contrib} 13:16, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

According to Greg Beeman, Niki is definitely dead. And Tracy is a separate character. Source - Jasonbres (talk) 22:26, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

IMO the statement is ambiguous, and could also be interpreted as meaning that the Niki persona is gone. I don't think Tracy should get a separate article unless we get a conclusive statement along the lines of "Tracy Strauss is a separate person, not an alternate personality of Niki / Jessica Saunders", however I'm okay with giving Tracy her own entry on list of Heroes characters with special abilities for now. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 00:07, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

As of tonight's episode, it seems fairly conclusive that Nikki is dead and that Tracy is a separate character, and therefore should have her own separate article. -- Mb webguy (talk) 02:06, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

In fact there are even more copies of Niki out there, all created by Doctor Zimmerman. --68.81.70.65 (talk) 02:07, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

We don't know, exactly, how many 'Niki Sanders' were 'created' by Zimmerman. We don't know much about Zimmerman yet. And since we saw Tracy looking at Niki's dead body, I think we can safely say that, whatever the two may have in common, they are two separate characters, who have led two separate lives. Jessica was part of Niki, but Tracy is a completely separate person. I would recommend making a separate article for Tracy Strauss, and I would also recommend adding a link to that article to the Main Characters section of the Heroes box at the bottom of the page. Just my two cents. 98.211.178.92 (talk) 02:54, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

I agree, Niki Sanders is as dead as Napoleon Boneparte, Abraham Lincoln, and John F. Kennedy. Mdriver1981 (talk) 05:54, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Just a thought, but depending how this "clone" arc goes, perhaps moving all the Niki "clones" to one article would be the best move? ~QuasiAbstract {talk/contrib} 10:30, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Niki was a major character for the first two seasons and I think that qualifies her for her own page. I do agree on a wait and see attitude regarding the "clone saga". Tracey may end up as a major character or get killed next week and "replace" by one of her "clones". Villains is only supposed to be 11 episodes, so I think we'll have a better idea in a few weeks.Cdrood (talk) 18:08, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Speaking of Niki's death, I think it should be noted that the way she looked in the casket seemed inconsistent especially considering how she was supposed to have been killed by the fire/explosion (I mean, other than some sort of bump to the left of her forehead, she looked very much intact and especially unburned considering the circumstances of her death.). I mean, I think it is worth noting in that article. Weedle McHairybug —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.128.224 (talk) 23:36, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

It's hard to know what would be "consistent" for a super-strong superhuman. For all we know, her skin may well be super-strength as well, and may have not been damaged by the flames. For all we know, she could have suffocated (which is likely). Or you could be right. Or (which is most likely), it's a inconsistency with the show itself, not trying to indicate anything. Basically, unless something substantial in the show or in an interview arises, it shouldn't be treated as anything special. ~QuasiAbstract {talk/contrib} 08:24, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

It can't have been Super-Strong skin, as she was also infected with one of the mutated strains of the Shanti Virus (thanks to an attack from "Freddy" Parkman [yeah, I know freddy isn't his real name, I just attributed the name to him since his powers were similar to Freddy Krueger.].) that Mohinder's own blood couldn't even cure. If her superstrengh power is taken away, then if the Skin was super-strong as well, that was also taken away. And anyways, in Candice's article, (not to mention the article "How to stop an exploding man"), it stated an analomy with her shape shifting powers.

I mean, it stated that a previous episode, "Landslide" implied that the form she commonly takes isn't her "true" form [and that she was actually overweight], and yet in "How to stop an exploding man?", when knocked out by Niki, she reverted back to her typical form instead of her "true" form. That was one example of such a thing existing.

Weedle Mchairybug

I'm not understanding what Candice has to do with Niki being burned or not, but in any case, we don't know if it was simply a mistake or a hint of things to come that Niki had no markings on her, so it shouldn't be added to the article yet. ~QuasiAbstract {talk/contrib} 11:15, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

I can't see that as anything but a continuity mistake/artistic license. If they had made her be as burned as she should have been we wouldn't have been able to identify her and there'd be discussion about that not really being her (and it would have made viewers puke). If they burn her we can't tell it's Niki, if they don't we complain that they didn't burn her so it's not Niki. Please. Unless we get something concrete let's chalk it up to necessity (for the Niki/Tracy clone storyline) and let it go. Padillah (talk) 13:39, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

I think it's safe enough to keep Tracy's section in Niki's article. It won't hurt to keep the section there for a few weeks until we know who's Tracy actually is. Seeing the progress of the story, we'd know the truth of her and Niki in a few more episodes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.161.140.116 (talk) 04:35, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

This article should be split. It doesnt make sense to associate Tracey with Niki, even if they are portrayed by the same actor. HOWEVER, I think we should wait until Monday when it is confirmed that Niki and Tracey are two different individuals. Once that is confirmed, we need to start seperating the character from the actress. Tracey is a new main character within the series, she is just protrayed by the same actor as Niki. SPLIT!--ChrisisinChrist ^{comments and complaints here!} 09:05, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes she should —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.8.109.234 (talk) 00:42, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, Tracy should be removed from this article but I'm not sure she's got enough info to make an article about her alone. Depending on how the storyline plays out it may be a better idea to expand this article to include the other Larter characters rather than try and make more and more articles for characters that are negligible in and of themselves. This may be the writers way to revisit the "multiple places at once" power. Padillah (talk) 12:45, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I think it's a good time to split now because we've actually heard from the doctor that there were three separate identical children, two of whom were Niki and Tracy. CallidoraBlack (talk) 02:49, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Edit Break

While I think Tracy will be important enough eventually, I don't think she's got enough history yet. Let's put her in the List of Heroes characters with special abilities and build until we get an articles worth of content. Padillah (talk) 12:03, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

But she's still a regular. - Jasonbres (talk) 14:34, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

The actress is a regular. The character (at least in this type of show) doesn't have to be. ~Auzemandius {talk/contrib} 15:25, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

This is about the character, not the actor. I've no doubt about Ali Larter staying on the show, I don't think we have enough information about the character Tracy Strauss to justify a full article... yet. Padillah (talk) 15:26, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Padillah is right. - Josh (talk | contribs) 23:23, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

TRACY STRAUSS has now been revealed to be a separate character from Nikki. (as proven by Episode 4 of season 3) She must be given her own page.

I agree - it's not appropriate for her to be on Niki's page as it stands, and that since Niki is dead it's unlikely she'll make a comeback. It certainly looks like Ali Larter will be playing Tracy (and Barbara) for the forseeable future. I personally we should restructure the page for the triplets rather than just Niki but there's there is no rush--WORM | MЯOW 11:28, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

An article for "Stacy Straus" will fail notability outside the TV series and will have to be deleted. Unless they are trusted third party sources, references and real world information such that to give the character notability. Then, an article can be created. -- Magioladitis (talk) 14:26, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Looking over the discussion, I'm not really seeing any opposition to moving Tracy and Barbara to List of characters in Heroes. Should we go ahead and do this? - Josh (talk | contribs) 16:55, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm gonna do this in 24 hours. - Josh (talk | contribs) 16:57, 24 October 2008 (UTC)\

I think she should get her own page. She's become important enough especially since she's started a relationship with Nathan and that she's seen four years in the future.

Niki/Tracy & the German discussion

Over at List of Heroes characters with special abilities there is a discussion of whether the German is related to Niki/Tracy or not. Please discuss. ~Auzemandius {talk/contrib} 12:08, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

She isn't. - Jasonbres (talk) 12:29, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Really? Cause so far it looks like the best you've got is a quick glimpse of a picture. With all the proof they have on the origins of Peters acquired abilities that can't get consensus and you think a little picture is gonna be acceptable? Padillah (talk) 12:49, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Retracted for reasons on other talk page. ~Auzemandius {talk/contrib} 12:57, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Barcode Tattoo

Resolved

 – Gordon Ecker (talk) 23:50, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

There is a book titled Barcode tattoo and it is about this woman who was cloned 6 times and each time the clone was injected with a formula that gave each a special ability. I think that could have something to do with whats going on. I think that formula that gives powers was tested on clones of a past figure that resembeled Tracy/Niki/Jessica —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.240.245.248 (talk) 00:40, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

It's hypothetically possible that the book was among the inspirations for Heroes, but this type of speculation doesn't belong in the article unless it's verified by a reliable source such as an interview or commentary track. See Wikipedia:No original research, Wikipedia:Reliable sources and Wikipedia:Verifiability for more details. Wikipedia isn't the place to discuss fan theories either, see Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not#Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 23:50, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Oh, that's what he was on about. Thanks for that Gordon. Sorry, anon 71. Padillah (talk) 11:56, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Was Jessica ever real?

Considering Dr. Zimmerman says he created "Niki, Barbara and Tracy", does that mean Jessica wasn't real? Looking back at episodes, it could well be that Jessica was a false identity Niki used to protect herself (by making "Jessica" the victim, Niki could forget it ever happened). I can't remember ever seeing any proof Jessica existed other than by what Niki said. Jacobshaven3 (talk) 20:01, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

DL knew of Jessica, and they showed her grave in "Six Months Ago". Ophois (talk) 20:04, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

The key is that Jessica was not Niki's twin sister; many viewers, myself included, just assumed that she was. Jessica was the daughter (biological or adopted, we don't know) of Niki's adoptive parents, and has nothing to do with Niki, Barbara, and Tracy being identical triplets. --DavidK93 (talk) 19:24, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Remove Jessica's murders?

In my opinion, the section containing the list of Jessica's murders has become pointless and should be removed. Her murders aren't that important on the show, and the information can be found within the biography section. Ophois (talk) 07:48, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

I second that.--Whadaheck (talk) 14:37, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

I "third" it Padillah (talk) 16:35, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Moving the article

Shouldn't we move the article to Niki Sanders & Tracy Strauss or Niki, Tracy & Barbara or something like that at least, to reflect the actual content?--Whadaheck (talk) 22:19, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

The biggest problem with moving it right now is any more we make would be speculation. What would you move it to? Niki, Tracy & Barbra? Barbra who? What's Tracy's real last name? Or is Niki the one with the different last name? What's Barbra's power? Is Barbra still alive? But without Barbra we'd just have to move it again when we find out these things. I say wait until Tracy has enough episodes to warrant her own article, close the Niki article and start the one on Tracy. If Barbra comes along we'll see where she fits in. Padillah (talk) 12:02, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Lost has a page called Nikki and Paulo, so that wouldn't be a first. Plus Tracy Strauss is her real name, she was adopted like Niki. To me Niki, Tracy & Barbara works just fine.--Whadaheck (talk) 17:58, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Where did you see that Strauss is her real last name? We know that Niki was adopted, how do we know Tracy wasn't? I just think it's a little too quick to start making too many changes. Padillah (talk) 18:56, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Well even if she was adopted by Mr & Mrs Strauss, that makes Strauss her real name, right? And I don't see what's bad about a title like Niki, Tracy & Barbara. Several series have characters pages for character's who last names are not even known, several real-life twins/triplets/whatever share the same page, and so on...--Whadaheck (talk) 20:32, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Niki, Tracy, and Barbara are not notable as a group. There has been only one scene that included more than one of them, and only one of them was alive. Notice that this entire article is separated into different sections for each character. - Josh (talk | contribs) 23:23, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I know, I made the sections. But to me the title of the article should reflect its content.--Whadaheck (talk) 16:53, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

True, but the content should not have been about three mainly unrelated characters in the first place. - Josh (talk | contribs) 21:10, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Niki's death

The article simply says "Niki was shown to be dead" in season 3. It would be nice if someone could provide at least a little bit of detail as to how she died. 204.97.183.31 (talk) 18:03, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Seeing as the last part of the previous section mentions that she is caught in an exploding building, it is pretty self-explanatory. Ophois (talk) 18:19, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

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