Talk:Night Swim

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Night Swim article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Film: American

	Film portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Film. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please refer to the documentation. To improve this article, please refer to the guidelines.FilmWikipedia:WikiProject FilmTemplate:WikiProject Filmfilm
	This article is supported by the American cinema task force.
	This article needs an image (preferably free) related to the subject, such as a picture of the set or a film poster. Please ensure that non-free content guidelines are properly observed.

Horror

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Horror, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to fictional horror in film, literature and other media on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit one of the articles mentioned below, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and contribute to the general Project discussion to talk over new ideas and suggestions.HorrorWikipedia:WikiProject HorrorTemplate:WikiProject Horrorhorror
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

United States Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Filming postponement

Is filming for the project postponed or what? 2607:FEA8:761B:C900:8C88:D638:B5CE:EEE5 (talk) 23:53, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a source that says filming has begun? An official social media account, or something? It just hasn't been reported that I can see, for some reason. Mike Allen 00:00, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There is WP:NORUSH to add a source contextualizing the project's filming in correlation to the 2023 Hollywood labor disputes. Is this correct? 2607:FEA8:761F:4600:84C0:EB0E:65B5:817F (talk) 21:08, 28 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I believe the film is in post-production. It filmed well before the strikes began. Mike Allen 22:54, 28 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What song was used in the trailer?

i don't know it, and it could be added to the "music" section Babysharkboss2 was here!! (Talking Heads) (Slim Shady) 18:12, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

James Wan's Easter Egg

I presume Australian-born producer James Wan was responsible for the Easter Egg that must have given the Australians who worked on the special effects a good laugh. The high school in the film in Harold Holt High School. Harold Holt was the name of the Australian prime minister from 1966 to 1967. He disappeared while swimming at Cheviot Beach, Victoria, presumed drowned. There's now a swimming pool named after him, Harold Holt Memorial Swimming Centre! Eligius (talk) 14:05, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 11 February 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. And the dab page can be eliminated with outstanding topics redirecting to Night swimming (disambiguation), as noted below. — Amakuru (talk) 13:12, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Night Swim (film) → Night Swim – Seems to be the clear primary topic, grossing $44 million and all-in-all being a pretty big phenomena. 600k+ monthly views after release (down from its peak), the two-entry dab is at 2k monthly views, and the album is at 200 monthly. (Not sure why the film is listed secondly on the dab page, but ah well.) Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 00:23, 11 February 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. asilvering (talk) 03:47, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose WP:RECENTISM of a just released movie. It didn't reach #1 on opening weeekend, and has a not-spectacular box office receipts of $44M being middling. It is not the biggest horror film of the decade. It is not Wan/Blumhouse's biggest film. Thus its longterm significance is lower than than of the album, a debut album. It has a C Cinemascore and is certified rotten by critics on Rotten Tomatoes, so is not a cinematic nor audience breakout. [1][2] By comparison, it isn't M3gan or Invisible Man from Blumhouse; it isn't genre-breaking like Alien, Terminator, Predator, Silence of the Lambs, or Psycho; it isn't a milestone horror film like The Fly, Hostel, Saw, Halloween, ... Longterm, the activity on this article will likely sink to that of the average horror film, as this has the boxoffice returns of an average high end horror film. -- 65.92.247.66 (talk) 19:11, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Respectfully, how does any of this matter? This is about determining the primary topic, not about whether or not it's the most revolutionary movie of all time, through completely unrelated comparisons. It reached #2 on its opening weekend, just behind Wonka. Its cinemascore, rotten tomatoes, or "ability to become a cult classic" has no bearing on whether or not this is what people are searching for on Wikipedia.

There are two topics on Wikipedia that go by this name. An album, and a film. You added a third title for "Nightswim" to the disambiguation so we can throw that in there too. First off, due to WP:SMALLDETAILS, both Night Swim and Nightswim would exist on separate titles, and if there were only two topics, there would not need to be a DAB page to distinguish these two. And even if they were equatable, to get this out of the way, "Nightswim" is one of a musician's six other aliases, Nightswim being one on the list, referenceable back to one interview that used it. A redirect, which receives 0 to 1 pageviews usually, but had a major 500% jump up to 5 pageviews yesterday, bringing the average for the month up to 2! But, this title is fundamentally different by missing a space, so it's a non-issue. There's only two articles on Wikipedia that could possibly be at this title. The pageviews for Night Swim and Night Swim (album) combined have reached like 17k views over the last 5 years. Half of which were almost surely from people looking for the film, peaking this January. The views for Night Swim (film) had more than that just yesterday (17.5k), when the movie came out over a month ago. Across its release window, it reached 1.5 million pageviews over the last two months. On the contrary, the album had 2,062 pageviews under its same 2-month release window in 2016, and this is the only other topic that could be at this title.

There might be other titles that include some combinations of the words "night" and "swim" or "swimming", but none of that has any bearing if they aren't exactly "Night Swim", to which this film is demonstratably the primary topic on Wikipedia with this title, in my opinion. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 20:35, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per WP:RECENTISM. Who knows what will be the primary topic in terms of long-term significance or if there even will be one? -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:10, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just because something a movie released recently doesn't mean it can't be the primary topic. Just because something is new doesn't mean it's impossible to tell what will be more relevant, and we already have 14 months worth of prerelease / postrelease worth of trends to see where things are going. The album absolutely pales in comparison. The PEAK for the album when it was at the title of "Night Swim" was 0.08% of the pageview relevancy of the movie, before dropping down to a casual 0.01% of the film's peak. Heck, when I look up "Night Swim album", the soundtrack gets more results than Salvat's album. The only time that anything about Josef Salvat's album came up on google... was from Wikipedia. There is no chance that the album will ever push 1.5 million pageviews, more realistically it will return to its 100 a month average, but maybe a bit of a boost from sharing a title with the film.

All I'm saying is, with only two things to choose between, it's really not hard to work out what people are looking for. The film page has existed for over a year with significant usage throughout, and was getting 200 daily pageviews with no info back in January 2023 when the album was getting 0. These are the views from all of 2023, [3] so it doesn't even include the 5x jump at release and the subsequent peaks to follow. The album's all time peak is also nothing in comparison to the film's.

There honestly might not need to be a disambiguation page to be honest, hatnoting would have been totally sufficient per WP:TWODAB. Could be acceptable now with Nightswim, but there's not a rush to add that. This is a case of WP:UPT as the only thing that people searching would be looking for with this term, only in competition with one other non-event title. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 06:04, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per Utopes. 🌺 Cremastra (talk) 15:30, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support: I'm not sure I buy the recentism argument. The pageviews shows that in the month after the article for the album was made, it had 900-1000 pageviews. I mean the album was released in France in October 2015 and worldwide in February 2016 and the article wasn't even made until May 2016. Now compare that to the pageviews for the movie. The movie was released in January 2024 and the pageviews for that month is over 1 million. The article for the film was created in January 2023. According to the article, this was when the movie was announced to be in pre-production. Even at this very early stage, the pageviews for January 2023 was over 3000, more than 3x the pageviews that the album had at its peak. Bait30 ^{Talk 2 me pls?} 07:37, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This probably doesn't matter, but just to note: The draft did not get moved into mainspace until April 19, 2023. Mike Allen 14:07, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support: As article creator of Night Swim (film), I support Utopes's proposal. Mike Allen 14:06, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per WP:RECENTISM. Underclass King (talk) 04:30, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Night Swim (film) → Night Swim per nomination, paired with Night Swim → deleted to make room for move. A hatnote atop the film's entry can state, For similar topics, see Night swimming (disambiguation). The lowercase Night swim can also redirect to the Night swimming dab page where Night Swim (album) as well as the musician Nightswim would be likewise listed. Those who simply type "Nightswim" would be redirected to the entry for musician Fin Leavell where a hatnote would advise users of the Night swimming (disambiguation) page, thus obviating the need for the current existence of two (Night Swim and Night swimming) dab pages. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 18:19, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per Utopes. Although the film article's pageviews clearly involve recentism, this is basically a WP:TWODAB situation, and the album does not seem especially notable. Bait30 provided information from around the time of release of the album, and that helps make sense of the situation. The album article peaked at less than 1000 pageviews per month, and has since been declining. That shows dramatically lower peak readership interest. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 22:57, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per Utopes. benǝʇᴉɯ 00:32, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Even if we argue that the film is improperly inflated, it'd be the primary topic even if this article's page views were cut in 1/10 (which they won't be). Fin Leavell has single-digit pageviews and is of very borderline notability, and seems to have performed under lots of names of which Nightswim was just one. The album also has single-digit pageviews. Even a snooty, pop-culture sucks argument disfavoring movies doesn't work here because the competition is ALSO pop culure. This is very straightforward, clear primary topic for the film. SnowFire (talk) 15:43, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.