Talk:Ndiadiane Ndiaye

Ndiadiane Ndiaye is currently a World history good article nominee. Nominated by simongraham (talk) at 12:27, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

An editor has indicated a willingness to review the article in accordance with the good article criteria. Further reviews are welcome from any editor who has not contributed significantly to this article (or nominated it), and can be added to the review page, but the decision whether or not to list the article as a good article should be left to the first reviewer.

Short description: Semi-legendary founder of the Jolof Empire

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Ndiadiane Ndiaye/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Simongraham (talk · contribs) 12:27, 12 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Freedom4U (talk · contribs) 23:52, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Will be reviewing this per discussion here. I am not finished yet so I would appreciate if you wait to act on my review. ~ F4U (talk • they/it) 06:51, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Freedom4U, reminder ping! -- asilvering (talk) 00:35, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the reminder! I'll get this done tonight :) ~ F4U (talk • they/it) 14:38, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's taking a bit longer than expected, but I expect to get it done today. ~ F4U (talk • they/it) 10:45, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

(I used a random number generator)

2. The page numbers for this reference are wrong. Check the pdf of the source here. I assume this reference refers to the quote Le Siin (capitale Diakhao) aurait compté 57 souverains, nommés Maad a Sinig ou Buur-Sinn, selon N. Diouf; les Gelwaar auraient commencé leur règne vers 1360. I'm not sure this verifies either of these claims. Alioune Sarr seems to be citing N. Diouf for the dating, not making the claims himself, and he also doesn't seem to say anything of "Ndiadiane Ndiaye's reign". Please correct me if I'm reading this wrong, my French is not very good.
- This seems ambiguous to me too. Removed.
6. This source makes me quite concerned as to why he's being described as "semi-legendary" instead of "legendary". In addition, by using the language Most, as reported by James Searing, claim that he was... in the article, it is not making it clear that (1) Searing does not make a claim about what myth is most common and the language as it stands is also WP:WEASEL; (2) purports to describe the person instead of the myth. I checked [7] which also backed up my concerns, which states that they are describing the myth and not the person.
- Clarfied.
6. (second usage) Quote is correctly sourced, though I'm concerned that there are too many quotes in this article.
- Reduced the number of quotes.
9. Source cited correctly. I'm a little concerned about the construction of this sentence and the next sentence. I think that the significance of who Abu Bakr ibn Umar is and why it is not a credible claim should all be incorporated into the same sentence.
- Merged.
9. (second usage) This source is able to verify parts of this sentence. Assuming that [17] can verify the other aspects, there is still an issue with stating The legend of Ndiadiane Ndiaye begins when... because the source provides a longer account of the legend that begins with his birth.
- Expanded.
11. The citation lists a page number that is the first page of the chapter. I assume the chapter as a whole is supposed to be the reference, but each claim still needs the proper page numbers.
- Added correct page numbers.
14.
16.
18.
24.
27.

MOS issues

In general

Wikilinks are very weirdly done. Several different wikilinks repeat themselves in the body (e.g. Senegal River, Lamane, Serer people, Wolof people, etc) and in some instances, the first wikilink is in the second mention of the term.
- Duplicates removed.

Lede

Dating

Don't wikilink years.
- Removed.
Use the circa template.
- Added.

Family background

arabo-berber affiliations definitely not the way to phrase this in English.
- Changed.

Legend

Remove the space before the comma.
- Removed.
ruler of the Sine,Maad a Sinig Maysa Wali, — add a space after the comma and remove the before Sine.
- Done
This match so enfuriated and ashamed Ndiaye — awkward phrasing
- Changed.

Legacy

Don't wikilink folk hero.
- Removed.
Don't wikilink Senegal.
- Removed.

Broadness/neutrality/stability/media check

There appears to be multiple versions of the legend. The legend section does a poor job at delineating between them.
- Reworded the lead in line with changes in the main text.
The historicity section seems odd. A few comments:
- It should probably be the first section, as it provides the necessary context in which to read the legend.
  - Moved.
- It appears to more be about literary analysis (analyzing the contents of the myth) than about historicity (analysis of whether there is evidence he existed).
- Very long blockquote in historicity. This should be paraphrased.
  - Paraphrased.
- Diop 2006 states Ndiadiane has left only an oral trace, no written archives. This state of things only adds to his mythical stature and it is consequently hard to verify his existence, for, like many mythical founders of nations, Ndiadiane's historical existence is not attested in the written records. This is not mentioned in the section at all.
  - Added.
I don't think it doesn't make sense for dating to be separate from historicity.
- Combined.
All or nearly all of the recorded versions share a few basic points... - The body of the article does not state this. In addition, the body does not mention him originating from Futa Tooro. Source 9 states he was born in Waalo and that he later made his way downstream to Walo, the land of his birth.
- Amended.
Ndiadiane Ndiaye is a colloquial way of referring to senegal and more specifically the Ndiaye family, a typically Wolof name. – mentioned here.
- Added.

@Freedom4U: Thank you for this thorough review. I have revisited the various references as well as the amendments you have suggested and, hopefully, addressed your concerns. Please tell me if there is anything else you would like me to look at. simongraham (talk) 09:15, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]