Talk:National Commission for Allied and Healthcare Professions

NCAHP includes Physiotherapy in their official list of allied healthcare professions (AHP)

Moved from Talk:Allied health professions

India's National Commission for Allied and Healthcare Professions includes the Physiotherapy profession in their official list of allied health professions (AHP).

This is in harmony with the practices of other nations, where all lists of AHP include Physiotherapy. If some nation specifically excludes Physiotherapy from their list, that can be mentioned under that nation's entry, but that does not change the general fact for this article. Physiotherapy should not be removed here. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 14:42, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

That is absolutely incorrect I have read the complete act, you must have read from a 2nd source and it shows, NCAHP act gives two categories-

1.Allied health Professionals

2. Healthcare professionals

Physiotherapy along with Optometry is in healthcare professions, not in the list of allied health professions.

You come up with fabricated sources and misinformed positions. I again question your credentials to make edits on medical subjects, either you have no medical background or are extremely biased. FlaminMongrel (talk) 04:19, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Also, the National Handbook under the same act uses the word 'medical' about a 160 times in regards to Physiotherapy, the phrase 'medical examination' was used for entrance procedure examination. DCPTOT defined it as a 'system of medicine' these are again contradictory to the claim you are making.

Physiotherapy is by no definition an allied healthcare profession, because we do not support the healthcare we are independent practitioners in it as a minimum criterion which seperates us even from the nursing profession, Optometry (who have limited diagnostic rights). FlaminMongrel (talk) 04:24, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

@FlaminMongrel: - Do not edit other people's talk page postings. - MrOllie (talk) 04:39, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

@FlaminMongrel:, you need to calm down and be civil. Always assume good faith. Don't make such accusations. They are uncivil personal attacks, and we do not tolerate that around here.

I replied to your comments at the Help desk. Here is the last version before it got archived. Do not edit it. It has been archived. There you can see I have the medical creds to edit medical topics. I've been doing that here since 2003.

I suspect there are some cultural and language difficulties here as I am not Indian and you are not American. I do not read the native language medical literature in India. I can only read the English content we have here. That's where I got my information. I didn't use any "fabricated sources".

From what I can figure out, the Indian organization of the medical system, at least as regards medical/allied health professions (AHP), is quite similar to the American way of doing it. NOTE: I could be wrong, but that's how it looks to me. Both countries have a small group not classified as AHP. In India it is Medical, Nursing, Dentistry, and Pharmacy. Then there are the AHP, a much larger group that includes Physiotherapy. Both countries do this. It appears that way from the National Commission for Allied and Healthcare Professions article. Is that article wrong?

Quoting from the lead there: "The National Commission for Allied and Healthcare Professions (NCAHP) is the Indian regulatory body for allied and healthcare professionals (AHP).[1] It covers all AHP who were not covered..." That "not covered" is the key phrase. Then it names the 10 categories that are "not covered", and Physiotherapy is one of them. From that, I gather that in India, Physios are classified as AHP.

In America, the term is "Allied Health Professions", and in India it is "Allied and Healthcare Professions". The "and" in the Indian phrase means nothing. It does not create two different groups. It's equivalent to the American AHP, and in both countries Physios are classified as AHP. If that is not the case, then the article needs to be revised using English language sources. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 06:40, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

BTW, the National Commission for Allied and Healthcare Professions article doesn't even link to the AHP agency website. That needs to be fixed. I'd like to read content there. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 06:48, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

FlaminMongrel, fortunately for me, and a consequence of the British occupation of India, the "Official Language Act provides that the Union government shall use both Hindi and English in most administrative documents that are intended for the public, though the Union government is required by law to promote the use of Hindi." I can't read Hindi, but I can read English. (Interestingly, the Philippines is also a place that is easy for English speakers because it has two official languages, Tagalog and English. I lived there for three years as a child, but only learned a few swear words in Tagalog. They thought it was funny to corrupt the missionary's kid. ) This also benefits Indians and Filipinos, as they can speak English and more easily travel and find work all over the world.

The "National Commission for Allied and Healthcare Professions Act" (2020) created a category of "Health Care Professionals" (HCP):

This act has created a category of Health Care Professionals which is defined as: “healthcare professional” includes a scientist, therapist, or other professional who studies, advises, researches, supervises or provides preventive, curative, rehabilitative, therapeutic or promotional health services and who has obtained any qualification of degree under this Act, the duration of which shall not be <3600 h spread over a period of 3 years to 6 years divided into specific semesters.

The act also defined "Allied health professional" (AHP), and that seems to be what's relevant here:

According to the act, “Allied health professional” includes an associate, technician, or technologist who is trained to perform any technical and practical task to support diagnosis and treatment of illness, disease, injury or impairment, and to support implementation of any healthcare treatment and referral plan recommended by a medical, nursing, or any other healthcare professional, and who has obtained any qualification of diploma or degree under this Act, the duration of which shall not be less than 2000 h spread over a period of 2 years to 4 years divided into specific semesters.

We need two things:

1. The official website for the National Commission for Allied and Healthcare Professions.
2. Official sources that mention Physiotherapists in this connection.

FlaminMongrel, would you please find this information for us? Try to really use "official" sources, not personal websites.

I did find an editorial by three Physiotherapists (ergo not official, just their opinions) that asserts that Physiotherapists are, according to the Act above, classified as "Health Care Professionals" and not as "Allied health professionals":

Physiotherapists are often inadvertently termed as allied health person, paramedical, technician, or rehabilitation worker. There is no mention of paramedical category in the Act, whereas rehabilitation workers are included in the Rehabilitation Council of India. The Act recognizes allied health professionals as a group of professionals who will implement any health‑care treatment on recommendation of health‑care professionals. The Act defines “allied health professional” includes an associate, technician, or technologist who is trained to perform any technical and practical task to support diagnosis and treatment of illness, disease, injury, or impairment, and to support implementation of any health‑care treatment and referral plan recommended by a medical, nursing, or any other health‑care professional, and who has obtained any qualification of diploma or degree under this Act, the duration of which shall not be <2000 h spread over a period of 2–4 years divided into specific semesters.[2] With these definitions, the debate on inclusion of physiotherapists in paramedical/technicians/allied health professional/multiple rehabilitation workers has been culminated.

That editorial clearly indicates the authors' belief that Indian Physiotherapists are not AHP. Now we need official sourcs that say the same. The other source is an article (a RS for that author's opinion, and not an official government or "Indian Association Of Physiotherapist" source. We need those types of sources. If they are correct, then our National Commission for Allied and Healthcare Professions article is misleading and needs to be corrected using official sources. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 18:39, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

It appears their editorial contradicts the Act itself. I found an official list of AHP established by the National Commission for Allied and Healthcare Professions Act, 2021, and it includes Physiotherapy as number 3 in their categories of professions.

They are a bit sneaky as they use the term "Health Care Professionals". That term does not appear in the Act, at least not in this source. Even when one searches for the word "healthcare", it always appears in this format: "allied and healthcare professional". FlaminMongrel, do you know any of those authors? Can you shed more light on this using official sources? Also, we still need the URL for the website of the NCAHP. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 22:16, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

References

NCAHP Act, 2021 includes Physiotherapy

I found an official list established by the National Commission for Allied and Healthcare Professions Act, 2021, and it includes Physiotherapy as number 3 in their categories of professions.

Our current lead:

The National Commission for Allied and Healthcare Professions (NCAHP) is the Indian regulatory body for allied and healthcare professionals (AHP). It covers all AHP who were not covered under National Medical Commission, Dental Council of India, Indian Nursing Council, Pharmacy Council of India etc till 2021 and groups all into ten categories with power to regulate education and professionals of all ten categories.

Ten categories were established, and Physiotherapy is number 3. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me)

References

Logo

FlaminMongrel, I'm wondering about the source for this edit. What RS backs up that image?

Another matter. We are still missing the URL for the official website for the NCAHP. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 01:11, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

I have a scanned document file which is signed by the NCAHP Chairman, which contains the logo, it was seen by SAPT (Student Association of Physical Therapy), also revealed by Gujrat Government Physiotherapist association, Unfortunately, I do not know how to upload or link that file in sources, it is not available on website links or even if it is then it must be quite hard to find since I already cannot find many notices that were uploaded so public notifications. I think within a month or two it will be released for purpose of announcement of a reward to the person who submitted this logo as part of the government campaign 'NCAHP logo contest'. FlaminMongrel (talk) 03:35, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Okay. That means that it isn't currently available from a RS. We will have to wait. There is also the copyright violation problem. One cannot just download an image from the internet. If you didn't create it yourself, it is automatically copyrighted. In some cases, one can use an image, but it must be done in the right way. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 05:40, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Removed section on Physiotherapy

It's already problematic regarding sourcing and possible original research, and it's undue here. Create an article devoted to Physiotherapy in India. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 01:36, 30 March 2024 (UTC)