Talk:My Lai massacre

My Lai massacre is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination was archived. For older candidates, please check the archive.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
March 29, 2005	Featured article candidate	Not promoted
March 31, 2014	Peer review	Reviewed

Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on March 16, 2004, November 20, 2004, March 16, 2005, March 16, 2006, March 16, 2007, March 16, 2008, March 16, 2009, March 16, 2012, and March 16, 2015.

Current status: Former featured article candidate

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"Mỹ Lai" v. My Lai

I expect few if any English language sources or readers use the diacritic in Mỹ Lai. Moving to My Lai, to conform with English language usage. CAVincent (talk) 07:50, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I may not have done the move correctly. If a waatcher can fix the error, please do. CAVincent (talk) 07:56, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've gone ahead and corrected the page back to article namespace. In the future, if you need attention towards a malformed page move, consider visiting WP:RMTR. Aidan9382 _(talk) 09:41, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, for the fix and the tip for help! CAVincent (talk) 03:25, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Clarification needed

The cited source offers no insight into exactly the meaning of the phrase "who has been the subject of pointed blame" with regard to Widmer. Nothing is mentioned on that point in the cited source, so is this someone's personal view somehow incorporated in this article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.24.239.172 (talk) 23:03, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Photo Caption for Image #3

Willbb234 has twice deleted a well sourced and accurate description in the caption of the third image in this article. I am undeleting now and explaining why. Here is the discussion between Willbb234 and myself on the subject:

Deletion from My Lai article.[edit]
I undid your deletion. The soldiers actually committed a sexual assault, not even attempted, by trying to rip her blouse off.JohnKent (talk) 00:19, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@JohnKent: I read the source in the caption and couldn't see any mention of this sexual assault. Please provide a reference for this. Willbb234 10:35, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Here's the quote from the cited reference. "In one incident, a group of 7-12 women and children were herded together, and members of the 3d Platoon attempted to rip the blouse off a Vietnamese girl. They halted their attempts after observing that the PI0 photographer was near their location and had taken a picture of the scene (see exhibit P-40). The women and children were then killed." I will improved the citation so it points to the exact page. JohnKent (talk) 15:55, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for helping to improve the article. JohnKent (talk) 16:03, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@JohnKent: my exact point - the source doesn't actually say a sexual assault occurred. Unless you're trying to infer that the action of ripping her blouse of was a sexual assault, but that's not how Wikipedia works. We also don't know a motive - perhaps they were searching for weapons. This isn't for us to decide. Willbb234 16:46, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Sexual_assault: "Sexual assault takes many forms including attacks such as rape or attempted rape, as well as any unwanted sexual contact or threats. Usually a sexual assault occurs when someone touches any part of another person's body in a sexual way, even through clothes, without that person's consent." JohnKent (talk) 17:17, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@JohnKent: "unwanted sexual contact or threats" "touches any part of another person's body in a sexual way". This is not indicated in the source, so we cannot say that it is sexual assault. Willbb234 17:58, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply] "members of the 3d Platoon attempted to rip the blouse off a Vietnamese girl" - This is absolutely "unwanted sexual contact". JohnKent (talk) 18:22, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@JohnKent: okay, seeing as this isn't getting anywhere, you will need to find consensus to include this. Per WP:ONUS, it is on you to find this consensus. Thanks, Willbb234 18:27, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

JohnKent (talk) 20:14, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure why you are so intent to add this to the caption. Is there any way to know that the woman in the photo is the "girl" referred to in the quote? Assuming not, the addition doesn't belong. It's not like the massacre seems less horrifying without this addition. CAVincent (talk) 06:22, 6 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with CAVincent. This detail is unnecessary and not clearly supported by RS. Mztourist (talk) 09:05, 6 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

OK. I agree with you and @CAVincent. I actually contacted the photographer Ron Haeberle and he confirmed the woman was assaulted by the soldiers, but I can't find documentation of this other than his verbal statement. I will let it go for now.JohnKent (talk) 17:32, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I spoke with the Army photographer Ron Haeberle and he referred me to the correct pages of the Peers Army report on My Lai. I have improved the citation below the photo accordingly.JohnKent (talk) 21:34, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

War Crime or Massacre?

Recently, an IP user change the first sentence of the article to replace "war crime" with "massacre", stating it does not fit the definition of the former. I believe it does, but as I'm not a regular contributor, I thought to get some feedback before undoing the change. - Bkid ^Talk/_Contribs 17:12, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What counts as a war crime vs massacre?

I probably will not come back to this talk page ever again, so I am asking this question specifically for the use of fulfilling the above questions?

Are there any Wikipedia articles or definitive, cite-able sources that can give an adequate differentiation? 67.214.195.184 (talk) 19:16, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It was both a war crime and a massacre. Massacres can happen outside of war, and thus not be war crimes; and war crimes include things other than massacres. But since you're not going to come back to this talk page ever again, why waste our time with questions you don't want to know the answer to? --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 20:24, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]