Talk:Moonlight Graham

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Untitled

In no way can June 29 be considered the 'beginning' of the baseball season. Changed this reference to 'middle'.

Moonlight?

Anyone know why he was called Moonlight? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.149.136.214 (talk • contribs) 23:21, 15 May 2008

One of the references you deride below, namely the SABR article, states: "Although some newspaper accounts said that Graham got the nickname 'Moonlight' because of his speed, it has been suggested by Mike Rappaport that when Graham was in the minors, he was also 'moonlighting' as medical student and the nickname stuck." JamesMLane t c 02:49, 16 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

References

The references for this article are secondary sources and not really valid.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.149.136.214 (talk • contribs) 23:21, 15 May 2008

We customarily rely on sources of this type. Can you be more specific about your objection? JamesMLane t c 02:49, 16 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In Baseball Slang

Sorry to be so picky about this, but in order for the "slang" thing to pass WP:BLP, you need to show that it's in wide use, not just on a couple of blogs. -Dewelar (talk) 17:22, 30 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

WP:BLP?? Moonlight Graham died in 1965; the biography for living persons standards do not apply. The criticism that blogs are not a legitimate source for slang is illogical. That's why it is slang, as opposed to a word in common usage. There is not a non-slang term for a batter who appears in only one game without a plate appearance.

Here are some additional references, "btw..looking at his current MLB stats, it looks like he’s on the same route as “Moonlight” Graham" ^[1] "it was obvious his fate was to be the Mets' Moonlight Graham."^[2]

Here's one from the Brooklyn Paper, a legitimate news source. "Joe Hietpas could turn out to be a modern Moonlight Graham, the famed New York Giants outfielder who played half an inning, yet never got an at-bat. As a result, he has no stats, making him a ghost (whose story was a key plot point in Field Of Dreams)."^[3]

One of the sources I cited was the Houston Chronicle.^[4]

A player with a Moonlight Graham MLB record is extremely rare. There have only been 4 in the past decade. Necessarily, the term will be in limited use. However, when a player such as Dusty Brown or Joe Hietpas accomplishes this ignominious achievement, he will often be compared to Moonlight Graham.

Finally, the whole point of Moonlight Graham as a historical and literary figure is not the individual, but what he represents. He had the most nominal MLB career and became a small town doctor. That does not merit an entry in Wikipedia. He is a cultural figure precisely because, "We'll all remember the superstars, the guys who grab the headlines and then the supporting players who do something so outstanding for a concentrated period of time that the feat will remain etched in our memory. But who really remembers the Moonlight Grahams, the Larry Coltons, and the many others who hit the big club for such fleeting moments that you hardly knew they were there? Most of us don't, but thanks to W.P. Kinsella, we learned the heartening story of Moonlight Graham, who, in retrospect, represents all of those players for us, forever."^[5]

Baseball is characterized by an extensive lexicon of slang terms that are used fleetingly and narrowly, but carry clear meaning.

DanBoothCohen (talk) 22:28, 30 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The major issue isn't WP:BLP or WP:RS, but rather WP:NOR. To go out and find a few blog references, and to conclude that this term has become baseball slang, is original research. Also, it isn't encyclopedic to go off on a flight of rhetoric like, "He is iconic in baseball lore of all the players, who strove for excellence and barely reached the pinnacle of high achievement, only to be brought down without leaving a mark." Furthermore, one citation to the Houston Chronicle doesn't establish that this kind of reference is made "often". Sorry, but encyclopedia writing can be kind of dry by comparison to formats that allow more individual creativity.

As a minor point, the word "Moonlight" in the infobox should be in quotation marks because it's a nickname, not his name. JamesMLane t c 08:25, 31 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

References

time travel scene in Field of Dreams

In the movie, the meeting of Ray Kinsella and Doc Graham was in 1972, as the movie theatre marquee indicated "The GodFather" as one of "this year's best films, and also there were posters to re-elect Nixon shown, in addition, Ray wipes dust off a llicense plate registration sticker showing 1972 as the date. (In the book it may be different, but in the movie or , the "scene", it was clearly 1972. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.115.194.132 (talk) 15:17, 20 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Someone (not me) has since clarified that in the article. The book and movie have different timelines. THANKS! --96.244.248.77 (talk) 01:17, 3 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Field of Dreams

Watch it. It will answer your questions about him.68.61.194.16 (talk) 00:48, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A life history cannot be depicted completely in a two-hour movie. Plus Doc isn't even the main character. There is more to Archie Graham than just what the movie depicts. --96.244.248.77 (talk) 01:16, 3 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Other Players (section)

Isn't this section of baseball trivia outside the scope of the main article? This should probably be a separate page rather than be part of "moonlight" Graham's legacy. Editors - please consider. --96.244.248.77 (talk) 01:07, 3 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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[1] ttp://www.metsblog.com/2008/03/06/psl-joe-hietpas-back-with-the-mets/

[2] ttp://faithandfear.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2008/3/25

[3] ttp://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/29/24/29_24action2.html

[4] ttp://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6302296.html

[5] ttp://sportsprof.blogspot.com/2005/06/for-all-you-moonlight-graham-fans-out.html

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