Talk:Moskva-City (Filyovskaya line)

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This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Discussions:

Not moved, 7 June 2024, to Moskva-Siti (Moscow Metro), see discussion.
Moved, 28 October 2024, from Mezhdunarodnaya (Moscow Metro) to Moskva-City (Filyovskaya line), see discussion.

Image of Central hall

I cannot insert image [[1]] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eugeny1988 (talk • contribs) 13:12, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

File:Mezhduarodnaya st.JPG Nominated for Deletion

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Requested move 7 June 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Closed as not moved since the opposition provided a clear argument for WP:COMMONNAME, and the proposed rename was "Moscow-City." Even the source cited by the nominator supports this. (closed by non-admin page mover) Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 08:22, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mezhdunarodnaya (Moscow Metro) → Moskva-Siti (Moscow Metro) – The station was officially renamed on 31 March 2024 212.3.130.205 (talk) 15:22, 4 June 2024 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). ASUKITE 13:57, 7 June 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 20:42, 16 June 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 20:26, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion copied from WP:RM/TR

How about Moscow-City (Moscow Metro), in line with Moscow-City? 162 etc. (talk) 19:56, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Names of metro stations are usually not translated: Ploshchad Revolyutsii, Park Pobedy, Slavyansky Bulvar, ..., so I think we should follow the trend. 212.3.130.205 (talk) 18:00, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Asukite 2A00:1FA0:AC2:E948:0:47:5AB2:6B01 (talk) 04:51, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In this case, unless @162 etc. agrees we should have a discussion, as anything we move here without clear consensus (or rather, the lack of any indicator that consensus 'might' be needed) can and most likely will be disputed and reverted. If you want to open a discussion, you can click the "discuss" link in the header above, include your rationale in the template and click publish, this will create a discussion on the article's talk page. ASUKITE 15:00, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Moved to contested until we hear back (need consensus if there are alternatives suggested) ASUKITE 17:54, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Right, I don't see any reliable sources for this. If it's named after Moscow-City, I don't see why we should use BGN/PCGN (WP:RUS) just for the sake of it. 162 etc. (talk) 03:43, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Opened as it appears at least two editors agree this should be moved, but we need to find consensus on a target title. (note that I am not the nom) ASUKITE 13:57, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Trains, WikiProject Russia, and WikiProject Stations have been notified of this discussion. ASUKITE 13:57, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose for now until the dust settles. In the map shown in the mentioned externlal link, the name in English is Moskva-City. See also [] - Altenmann >talk 16:00, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. The official English name is Moskva-City, see the map in the linked article. Alaexis_¿question? 19:44, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support: No need to wait until any dust settles: it's an official name change. No reason to think they do them often, I think. Just change the name to match the official one. Comment by 162 should not be followed given it is against the consistency Mrfoogles (talk) 23:21, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 28 October 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. The objections raised by 162 etc. to the initial undiscussed move were addressed by the revelation of reliable sources that used the new official name. (non-admin closure) JJP_{Mas_ter} (she/they) 11:09, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mezhdunarodnaya (Moscow Metro) → Moskva-City (Filyovskaya line) – The station was renamed and its official English name is Moskva-City per the map here. The "COMMONNAME" argument is completely incorrect since using the outdated name will only confuse those who will use this article to navigate in the metro. 212.3.142.55 (talk) 23:31, 28 October 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 09:56, 5 November 2024 (UTC)— Relisting. —usernamekiran (talk) 21:28, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, and also it seems that user:162 etc. is the only person who thinks that 2+2=5 when everyone else tells them that it's not. 212.3.142.55 (talk) 23:32, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Very weird. The station was renamed several months ago but for some reason one editor is against moving the article.
@162 etc., please give at least one reason why you are against moving. Referencing to WP:COMMONNAME is not valid because the actual name is definitely common, as opposed to the previous one. Michgrig (talk) 07:29, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Michgrig: the reason why they are against the move is the RM above (even though its conclusion is not based on policies or guidelines). 212.3.142.55 (talk) 10:58, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, bold moves are not allowed when there is prior discussion history; an RM is required. See WP:PCM. 162 etc. (talk) 16:39, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Testovskaya railway station, Testovskaya railway station, MCD4, and Delovoy Tsentr (Moscow Central Circle) have also been moved without discussion or explanation to "Moskva-City" titles. 162 etc. (talk) 16:44, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They have been moved because their official name has changed, and so has their colloquial name. This is common sense. 212.3.142.55 (talk) 18:29, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh my, an essay about WP:IAR. That is certainly not a very good justification. I'd tend to prefer independent, reliable, English-language sources. 162 etc. (talk) 21:19, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Surely there are better sources for this than a scan of a metro map, which is all that OP has provided? 162 etc. (talk) 16:46, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
https://t.me/DtRoad/38009 (see pictures 1 and 4, this is the official Telegram channel of Moscow's Department of Transport). The inscription above the entrance to the station clearly says Москва-Сити Moskva-City. 212.3.142.55 (talk) 18:19, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Again, these are photographs. We need sources. See WP:RS. 162 etc. (talk) 21:20, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What's wrong with photographs of the official navigation?
Another source is Yandex Maps: https://yandex.com/maps/213/moscow/?ll=37.533628%2C55.747849&z=21
Is it still not OK? Unfortunately, the English language seems to have been removed from the official Moscow Metro website. Otherwise, that would be the most official source.
AFAIK, in the previous discussion above, the disagreement was in the exact spelling of the name in English. However, either Moskva-City, Moskva-Sity, or Moscow-City are much closer to the actual Russian variant than Mezhdunarodnaya. Agree? Is not it better to move the article to any of the suggested names, and then go on discussing the properest spelling however long one might like?
Also, do you think there are many English-language sources that describe the name changes in Moscow Metro (especailly now, with current geopolitics)? Even urbanrail.net shows old names: https://www.urbanrail.net/eu/ru/mos/img/line-4.htm Michgrig (talk) 21:44, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And what is exactly wrong with photos? The signs installed by employees of Moscow Metro would use the transliteration used by the company. 212.3.142.55 (talk) 07:46, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: I have sent an official request for information to the Department of Transport. 212.3.142.55 (talk) 08:28, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yesterday, I saw something else on the urbanrail.net map https://www.urbanrail.net/eu/ru/mos/moskva.htm
It shows correct names. Is it the source that you need? Michgrig (talk) 08:14, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@162 etc. Michgrig (talk) 07:18, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@SafariScribe, could you please take a look, since the only opponent does not respond? Michgrig (talk) 11:47, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Update (note: I am 212.3.142.55): I have received an official response from Moskovsky Metropoliten in regards to the transliteration. — Snowy Meadow (talk) 18:21, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@162 etc. — Snowy Meadow (talk) 18:22, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, that is certainly a source.

My knowledge of the Russian language is pretty rudimentary, so I don't fully understand the letter. It does state that the preferred English-language transliteration is "Moskva-City". However, I do note that the word "Mezhdunarodnaya" doesn't appear anywhere in the letter. Are we talking about the same station? 162 etc. (talk) 20:25, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See this: На карте Москвы теперь: Москва-Сити — объединяет городской вокзал D4 (бывш. Тестовская), городской вокзал МЦК (бывш. Деловой центр МЦК) и метро (бывш. «Международная») Филёвской линии метро; (translation: The map of Moscow now has: Moskva-City, which connects the city railways D4 (station formerly called Testovskaya), MCC (station formerly called Delovoy Tsentr of MCC), and metro (station formerly called Mezhdunarodnaya) of Filyovskaya line). — Snowy Meadow (talk) 20:50, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As I noted above, both the D1 and D4 Testovskaya articles have been moved to "Moskva-City". This source you cited only mentions D4. Can you help clarify this? 162 etc. (talk) 20:58, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That station officially uses the name "Testovskaya (Moskva-City)" (see this). (P.S. You can see the official name of any metro station on that site). — Snowy Meadow (talk) 21:06, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Based on this, I've moved that article to Testovskaya (Moskva-City) railway station. 162 etc. (talk) 21:35, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And in regards to the letter, Для транслитерации названия станции метро "Москва-Сити" было принято следующее решение: слова и их компоненты, ранее транслитерированные кириллицей с английского языка, восстанавливают свое исходное латинское написание, а дефисное написание в кириллице сохраняется при транслитерации на латиницу. Таким образом, транслитерация названия станции метро "Москва-Сити" — Moskva-City. (translation: In regards to the transliteration of the name of metro station "Moskva-City" it was decided to do the following: words and their components transliterated from Latin to Cyrillic keep their original Latin spelling, while the dash used in Cyrillic spelling is kept when transliterating to Latin. Therefore, the transliteration of this station's name into Latin is "Moskva-City"). — Snowy Meadow (talk) 21:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Rapid transit, WikiProject Russia, WikiProject Stations, and WikiProject Trains have been notified of this discussion. —usernamekiran (talk) 21:28, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support We've uncovered some sources and can now confirm that "Moskva-City" is the name. I've also created a dabpage at Moskva-City to make sense of all this. 162 etc. (talk) 21:48, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per info from the Moscow Metro website. --Altenmann >talk 23:20, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per 162 etc. XtraJovial (talk • contribs) 23:23, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.